What is Happening in the Real Economy ?

[sparrks]

As it's been said many times before - "if a bank's too big to fail, then it's too big to exist" is something I agree with. I think that it should be made clear to all Banks, that they screw up they will not be bailed out.

The Chief Execs and heads of large organisations get paid silly money to do their jobs. It should be so that when someone is in such a position, their personal wealth is tied into that job, so that if for example a bank fails through their wrong doing they lose everything, liberty and property and not walk away with multi-million pound payoffs. It just might make them more responsable.

 

[ivecotrucker]

can't be anything wrong with the economy for many people, judging by the amount of Bingo, casino sites advertised on T.V. it seems we must all have more money than we know what to do with..................

Apparently there's a massive, and growing, problem with gambling in the UK, Big bed.

Gordon Brown loved it

Maybe surprising to most (all ?) of us on here that there are people who really believe that one big win will solve their financial problems. The casino/hotel/resorts in Las Vegas have standby teams to return punters who have gambled & lost everything, including their homes & motorcars back to their home towns. In Naples, Italy the addiction to Bingo of the poorer sections of society in the hope of a big win is becoming a real problem.
Bankers have really got the right idea; they only gamble with other people's money then retain the profits themselves whilst loading any losses onto the other punters (i.e. us !). I least i can walk into our (empty) pub with a clear eye & head held high, it would be even better if I could afford a beer !!.

 

[GRWXJR]

Maybe surprising to most (all ?) of us on here that there are people who really believe that one big win will solve their financial problems.

When you look at it, its not surprising at all. When you know your future is bleak due to the state of the country and the financial crises that are too far gone to fix then (even if you don't really understand any of this) Joe Public can work out that his only chance of a big pile of cash is to get some kind of windfall. As most won't have that rich Uncle about to pop his clogs then where else are they to get this money unless they are prepared to become crooks?

Ever increasingly the post-war working-class & middle-class (generations who were in the just the right part of history to have been able to accrue any wealth in any numbers) are not saving their money and leaving legacies to their children, but realising that 'they can't take it with them' and are enjoying retirement and spending it. So, once the last of the generations with any money have gone and that money is no longer in circulation (at least with those that really need it) then we'll see a bigger gap between the haves and have nots IMO.

If you started work in the 1950's or 60's and bought a house, then inside of maybe 5 or 7 years it's be worth 5 - 10 times what you paid for it. So just by holding down a job and making the hard payments in the first year or 2 you accrued wealth. As wages kept pace with inflation, you had a home worth 10x what you paid, and a mortage a much smaller proportion of your income. Win-win, and no speculation or nouse required - just go to work and don't be daft. Then (even without moving or doing anything) just keep on doing the same while your house gets more and more valuable and your outgoings get less an less. So you can save, or invest in more property or whatever. The situation has long been different and those circumstances will never return. My parents are examples of this - but until it was pointed out to them they had no idea that fortunate time of birth had done anything to aid their situation, and that things were so much harder now.

So, what does the ordinary working stiff have now to ease his passage to solvency? Not much, if anything. So it can be no surprise that the masses are either buying lotto tickets, scratch cards, bingo, betting or gambling (or combos of all) as it seems to be the only way they are ever going to have a hope of having any wealth, so they have to hope the astronomical odds of a 'Big Win' happen for them.

 

[landydriver]

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[GRWXJR]

Yep - the main benefit of my house to me is that my mortgage is less than it'd cost me now to rent the same place, so it helps a bit.

The only way to get the money as you say is to sell - but this only realises cash of you can downsize and pocket the difference. in this day and age if I 'downsized' from my place then as mine is probably worth a bit less than yours here in Wales then I couldn't get anything else.

So the saving over rental is the only tangible benefit.

 

[yorkslass]

I bought my house And yes its probably doubled in price but thats just numbers.

Say my house is worth £100000, Yes (some will say lucky sod) I have a 100k worth of bricks but its not worth anything really as I have to live in it.

I can't sell it, well I can but I'd have to buy somewhere else.

Its only an asset if you can get rid of it and spend the ££££

The only advantage I see is....It took me 10 years to pay off my house, now I live here for free. One day the house will be worth something to my children assuming they have a houses of their own by then they will be able to cash my house in and spend the lot.

always assuming that it hasnt vanished into a care home black hole.:scared:

 

[scampa]

'Scuse me for interrupting, but I must say that there's a lot of common-sense and wisdom on this thread. Makes me proud to be a wildcamper!!

If you could all organise yourselves into some kind of party before the next election, and allocate roles, then I would vote for you! (Just need to decide on a suitable name?) :nicethread:

 

[GRWXJR]

If you could all organise yourselves into some kind of party before the next election, and allocate roles, then I would vote for you! (Just need to decide on a suitable name?)

To paraphrase the great Groucho Marx....

"I'd never be a member of any party, that would have ME as a member!"

 

[GRWXJR]

Going back to the Water Board here in Wales as an example of the 'Big Co' ripoff of public services....

A mate who worked for them (and who then got his contract taken over by the 'Contractor') told me that the Co bid for the contract at a value that they KNEW was too cheap to be able to turn a profit and sustain the business.

As they were cheapest they of course won a 5-year contract (and the Beancounters with no clue will want to eviscerate anyone who didn't go with the cheapest bid, so the cheapest always wins, as Managers aren't going to put their own job in jeopardy trying to make a sensible call when going with the Beancounters gets them left in peace). This bunch promptly set about getting rid of as many staff as possible, and then cutting out or greatly extending things like Maintenance of Plant, not bothering with upkeep of building fabric and grounds, keeping the vehicles way past their expected Asset life - basically every short-term trick to generate short-term returns for the shareholders dividend (at the ultimate vast expense of the customer and taxpayer).

They had to know that if they took the money by doing this, that the infrastructure would break down and the costs would accrue so that there would be a BIG problem. However, I think it entirely possible that this was the plan all along - squeeze every drop out to ruination, then take the money and run. Surely this has to verge on either the Criminal, or at very very least Criminal Negligence, not to mention serious breach of contract. However - being a big global enterprise, then its all smoke and mirrors, and those who should be held accountable have vanished and are untouchable. People should be in Jail for pulling stunts like this, but of course they'll be sunning themselves in Mauritius with their 6 or 7 digit bank balances instead.

Finally (and for once something has happened that I can agree with) -Welsh Water kicked out its contractors, took the staff back on direct and restructured as a not-for-profit organisation so they could maintain the system without having a gun held to their heads by the suits with their portfolio's. I dare say its far from perfect, but its got to be better than being fleeced and the the kit run into the ground by unscrupulous and underhanded big businesses.

Now what we need is for a lot MORE of this to happen IMO and for public utilities to oust the grasping, cheating, thieving corporations and regain control of OUR assets and services. Viva la Revolution!:hammer::hammer:

 

[jamesmarshall]

'Scuse me for interrupting, but I must say that there's a lot of common-sense and wisdom on this thread. Makes me proud to be a wildcamper!!

If you could all organise yourselves into some kind of party before the next election, and allocate roles, then I would vote for you! (Just need to decide on a suitable name?) :nicethread:

How about The National Apathy Party (NAP for short). I would get it off the ground but I can't be bothered right now.

 

[GRWXJR]

How about The National Apathy Party (NAP for short).

How About....

Campervanners Rallying Against Politicians. Hmm, maybe not

 

[MATS]

fuel going up again

and article in Times today predicts fuel going up again 4p by easter - even quieter roads ahead.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Just gone up to 147.9p at our local garage.

Used to be one of the cheapest around, now the most expensive.
Dunno what they're playing at, their forecourt has died the death!

Now wait until I need to make a trip further afield then fill up at cheaper garages while I'm there.

Fuel costs are crippling everything

 

[sparrks]

Just gone up to 147.9p at our local garage.

Used to be one of the cheapest around, now the most expensive.
Dunno what they're playing at, their forecourt has died the death!

Now wait until I need to make a trip further afield then fill up at cheaper garages while I'm there.

Fuel costs are crippling everything

A lot of these fluctuations that you are seeing is caused by deliveries - the garages with the most turnover and therefore deliveries seem to have the most volatile prices. An independant with a lower volume of sales while have less volatile prices but bigger increases. I think that when prices are rising rapidly the independants are the cheapest, but on the rare occasions that prices fall then the independants are far dearer. That's just my view.

 

[sparrks]

The price of crude is also on it's way back down.

 

[ivecotrucker]

So unbeknown to us they are scrapping the new carbon tax due in April & defying the EU by keeping open those coal fired power stations that we promised to close this year ??. IMO this is a particularly important year by which to judge our leader's real attitudes re the UK's long term survival as an independent sovereign nation.

 

[John H]

A lot of these fluctuations that you are seeing is caused by deliveries - the garages with the most turnover and therefore deliveries seem to have the most volatile prices. An independant with a lower volume of sales while have less volatile prices but bigger increases. I think that when prices are rising rapidly the independants are the cheapest, but on the rare occasions that prices fall then the independants are far dearer. That's just my view.

I don't know how the system works but in my local area the Jet garages are always cheaper than the supermarkets (although I have been in Spain since September so things may have changed!). I don't know what clout the chain has but I would guess it is not a match for Sainsbury's or Tesco - so what the hell is going on there?

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I don't know how the system works but in my local area the Jet garages are always cheaper than the supermarkets (although I have been in Spain since September so things may have changed!). I don't know what clout the chain has but I would guess it is not a match for Sainsbury's or Tesco - so what the hell is going on there?

John, our local is a Jet garage, but their prices have gone sky high in the last 4 months after being the cheapest for ages.

 

[John H]

John, our local is a Jet garage, but their prices have gone sky high in the last 4 months after being the cheapest for ages.

Oh bugger! :rolleyes2:

 

[GRWXJR]

So unbeknown to us they are scrapping the new carbon tax due in April & defying the EU by keeping open those coal fired power stations that we promised to close this year ??

There's probably little option, unless you like being in the dark. Successive gov's have faffed about about Nuclear cos of being worried about upsetting the electorate and losing the best gig. As I said before - they asked the people 'do you want nuclear?' so naturally they all said no (Ooh, a vote loser - can't have that!). So its been fudged while our power stations age and can't cope.

Now - if they'd asked Joe public 'which would you prefer, nuclear or being in the dark with increasing power cuts and periods without supply?' you can bet your bottom dollar the concensus would have been 'Nuclear Power please!'.

But politicians seem to be galactically thick, and didn't ask the right question. So now we can either keep on burning coal and emitting hydrocarbons, or be in the dark - cos it takes about 15 years to commission a nuclear Power Station, and we need a few of em as I understand it.

My guess is this 'strong stance' by Cameron and keeping the coal-fired stations is a smokescreen (sic) for abject necessity - parcelled up as strong leadership.

But then - we couldn't hope for a Politician to give you a straightforward and honest reason now could we eh?