What is camping

[Mad Cow]

Having seen the idea in various posts that what this site is about is "overnight parking" and not "overnight camping" I decided to look up the definition of "camping"

The Oxford English Dictionary says

"the activity of spending a holiday living in a tent"

Cambridge Dictionaries On-line says

"when you stay in a tent on holiday"

Notice a theme here?

So does that mean we can ignore any signs saying "no overnight camping" because clearly we are not

 

[John H]

Very grey area, this. If all four wheels are on the ground and there is no camping equipment outside then you can make out a very good case for saying that you are simply parked. Most motorhomes have onboard water and waste tanks, and so are self-contained. It is not illegal to fall asleep in a parked vehicle (think of all those "tiredness kills, take a break" signs on motorways). However, most of those notices you refer to say "no overnight parking" rather than "no overnight camping" and any land owner/local authority is free to pass whatever parking restrictions they choose to. My view is that if we want people to allow us to wild camp then the best thing is to obey the signs and move on elsewhere (there are always plenty of public places with no notices). If we don't disturb them, hopefully they won't disturb us.

 

[kenjones]

Very grey area, this. If all four wheels are on the ground and there is no camping equipment outside then you can make out a very good case for saying that you are simply parked. Most motorhomes have onboard water and waste tanks, and so are self-contained. It is not illegal to fall asleep in a parked vehicle (think of all those "tiredness kills, take a break" signs on motorways). However, most of those notices you refer to say "no overnight parking" rather than "no overnight camping" and any land owner/local authority is free to pass whatever parking restrictions they choose to. My view is that if we want people to allow us to wild camp then the best thing is to obey the signs and move on elsewhere (there are always plenty of public places with no notices). If we don't disturb them, hopefully they won't disturb us.

I agree, best to avoid confrontation and live in peace.

 

[Canalsman]

How do you define overnight parking?

If you stop somewhere at 2.00am and leave at 6.00am, is that overnight?

When does night start? And how long is it?

If you parked your car in a layby for a few hours for a kip after a long drive, I'd wager noone will take a blind bit of notice.

If you did the same in a motorhome, I'd wager that might well attract attention.

It's a complete nonsense, and I question the right of any authority to prohibit parking in a layby overnight.

 

[AndyC]

It does depend on the attitude of the local authority, one of the car parks in Powys, where you can stay for one night in seven, has a prominent 'no camping' notice but the car parks manager has stated that it definitely refers only to tents.

On the whole however I would agree that it's usually best to move on and find somewhere else.

AndyC

 

[John H]

It's a complete nonsense, and I question the right of any authority to prohibit parking in a layby overnight.

Well, you'd be wrong. The highways authority is usually the County Council, but they can delegate powers down the line to, say, District Councils and there are dozens of statutes that give local authorities the right to determine traffic orders. Indeed, this current government has said that it intends to give them even stronger powers to do so.

 

[Airecraft]

How do you define overnight parking?

If you stop somewhere at 2.00am and leave at 6.00am, is that overnight?

When does night start? And how long is it?

I think this argument has been used before and that is why many places now have more specific signs prohibiting caravan or motorcaravan parking between midnight and 8 am or suchlike.

 

[keeflester]

on its head

I think this argument has been used before and that is why many places now have more specific signs prohibiting caravan or motorcaravan parking between midnight and 8 am or suchlike.

Has anyone turned that on its head and slept outside the recognised hours of night-time. The big advantage of this approach would be getting the use of the roads during the quietest time for driving. Or am I mad for even thinking this??

 

[Deleted member 775]

as for the parking up and sleeping question ,in all the time we have been out and about in our van and that includes the 18 month stint living full time in it ,we have never been challenged once by the authorities( but then again we used our common sence) .including parking where it states no camping or overnight sleeping like most carparks have .i think if you dont insist on getting the table and chairs out barby smoking away awning fully extended you will be ok, as i say arrive late and leave early and you will be ok .as for the laybies as we used them extensivly throghout our time living in the van also industrial estates i find them a valuable place for an overnight stay there are many places that have motor homes and caravans prohibited from parking between certain times porthcall is one example but there is a private car park not two mina away from the beach and for a couple of quid youy can stay there ok its not the pretiest spot but it serves a purpose.then again if you drive just a couple of miles outside there are many places to stay i know i have done it there will always be places to park up for a night ok mabey not the prettiest but they serve a purpose and are safe then carry on enjoying the days you are out and about . the only thing we have to worry about is if they stop motorhomes from parking in car parks during the day unless they have a coach park area which i doubt very very much .

 

[sagart]

This reference was given me by the DMV office when last in Oregon, in case the police queried our parking up our daughter's RV.

The term “to camp” is defined as "to set up, or to remain in or at a campsite, for the purpose of establishing or maintaining a temporary place to live." Anderson v. City of Portland, 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 67519 (D. Or. July 30, 2009)

Outside campsites, State and local laws applied and were, very strictly, by men with big guns!

 

[John H]

This reference was given me by the DMV office when last in Oregon, in case the police queried our parking up our daughter's RV.

The term “to camp” is defined as "to set up, or to remain in or at a campsite, for the purpose of establishing or maintaining a temporary place to live." Anderson v. City of Portland, 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 67519 (D. Or. July 30, 2009)

Outside campsites, State and local laws applied and were, very strictly, by men with big guns!

The problem is that each state and each country have their own definitions, so the one you quote will not be any use outside Oregon.

 

[David & Ann]

This will be my last viewing and post until I get back from Germany on the 28th. Taking 22:15 sailing to Calais tomorrow night. Crash out at Calais parking area. Hit the road through Belgium and Holland, hopefully be at the Dutch/German border at Nordhorn, where they sell the best fish and chips I have ever tasted. Should be in Hamburg in the evening and park up at the free Stellplatz in Kaltenkirchen. See my kids and the grandchildren. Until then, you folks on here have a great time with whatever you intend doing.

 

[Mad Cow]

Hopefully people realised my first post was very much tongue in cheek, I am not for one minute proposing we ignore signs on the basis that the are etymologically* incorrect.

I thought it might raise an interesting debate, which seems to be working so far







*Etymology - (1) The origin or derivation of a word. (2) The branch of linguistics concerned with the history of the forms and meanings of words.

 

[John H]

Hopefully people realised my first post was very much tongue in cheek, I am not for one minute proposing we ignore signs on the basis that the are etymologically* incorrect.

I thought it might raise an interesting debate, which seems to be working so far



*Etymology - (1) The origin or derivation of a word. (2) The branch of linguistics concerned with the history of the forms and meanings of words.

And it is a debate that is well worth having over and over again. The problem is that many people do blatently ignore such signs and that makes it difficult for the rest of us. If we are to persuade people that we are sensible, law-abiding people who can be trusted to stay overnight and cause no disturbance then such things do our cause no good at all.

 

[geoffvalenti]

And it is a debate that is well worth having over and over again. The problem is that many people do blatently ignore such signs and that makes it difficult for the rest of us. If we are to persuade people that we are sensible, law-abiding people who can be trusted to stay overnight and cause no disturbance then such things do our cause no good at all.

On the other hand, maybe if we just stayed there anyway and showed the powers that be that we WERE "people who can be trusted to stay overnight and cause no disturbance" they might consider abandoning these ridiculous rules!

If we just roll over and take it all the time, those in authority could get the idea that we aren't bothered about it, and just carry on erecting their silly notices in more and more car parks.

 

[John H]

On the other hand, maybe if we just stayed there anyway and showed the powers that be that we WERE "people who can be trusted to stay overnight and cause no disturbance" they might consider abandoning these ridiculous rules!

If we just roll over and take it all the time, those in authority could get the idea that we aren't bothered about it, and just carry on erecting their silly notices in more and more car parks.

I don't think too many local authorities will take the view that people who ignore their rules are people who can be trusted - however clean and tidy you are. And why bother? There are plenty of places to stop where there aren't any notices.

 

[Donk]

We stayed overnight in a car park on Bodmin Moor where there was a sign saying "no camping" but nothing about parking ! I took the camping means "tents" as in the dictionary.

If you were parked up near a "no parking" restriction notice and you were reported would a parking attendants or wardens or whatever they call themselves come out at night?

I don’t think the police get involved in parking restrictions as this is a civil thing !

I presume the penalty would vary from authority to authority but I think it would be hard and expensive for the council to police and to prosecute anyone easily. And now they are outlawing wheel clamping on private land I think the local authorities might dind it even harder.

 

[John H]

We stayed overnight in a car park on Bodmin Moor where there was a sign saying "no camping" but nothing about parking ! I took the camping means "tents" as in the dictionary.

Which neatly brings us back to the beginning of this thread - "no camping" can be ignored if you are simply parked but "no overnight parking" is harder to ignore - unless you want to take the view that a local authority won't bother to enforce it. But remember, they do have the power to clamp you and they do have the power to fine you - and if you don't pay the fine within 14 days they can get a County Court Order (see Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 and the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007).

 

[defitzi]

Well, you'd be wrong. The highways authority is usually the County Council, but they can delegate powers down the line to, say, District Councils and there are dozens of statutes that give local authorities the right to determine traffic orders. Indeed, this current government has said that it intends to give them even stronger powers to do so.

well ye did elect the fasciosts to replace the Stalinists so ye did!

 

[defitzi]

And it is a debate that is well worth having over and over again. The problem is that many people do blatently ignore such signs and that makes it difficult for the rest of us. If we are to persuade people that we are sensible, law-abiding people who can be trusted to stay overnight and cause no disturbance then such things do our cause no good at all.

go on, jh lie down ands roll over.....