Warning - Quicksand danger - The Ship Inn, Sandside POI

[whitevanwoman]

Just a warning to anyone using the Ship Inn at Sandside (near Arnside) in South Cumbria - this afternoon I was walking the dog along the sand/mud flats adjacent to the road when I came across 2 people stuck in the mud and sinking, only 30 metres away from the road and the pub. A young lad had thrown them a life ring and was holding one of them by the rope but both casualties were stuck like glue and sinking. They had been walking their dog further out on the sands and were returning back to the pub when they got stuck crossing a mud channel.

They were eventually safely rescued in a joint operation involving 3 Cumbria Fire and Rescue Service crews, (Morecambe) Bay Search and Rescue team (volunteers) and HM Coastguard but it took at least an hour to get them out and considerable effort and specialised equipment. The rescue teams had to then go back and rescue some of their kit which was sinking. With at least 2 police cars controlling traffic along the road which was almost blocked because of all the emergency vehicles, the whole incident will have cost thousands of pounds, but will hopefully be a good warning of the very real risks of walking on the sand flats.

POI Admin - is there any way to add a "DO NOT WALK ON THE SANDS DUE TO QUICKSAND DANGER" (or words to that effect) note to the POI?

 

[maingate]

I put that one forward as a POI.

At the time I was hoping to get rid of a few troublesome members, so never mentioned the quicksand.

Never mind, I will try to find another deathtrap for the POI. :lol-049::lol-049:

 

[oldish hippy]

just tell them to try and drive from weston to brean at low tide lol on side not we have had fairshare on this coast of people getting stuck in mud burnham on sea has a hovercraft to help out with people getting stuck in the mud trying to walk out to the sea

 

[Boots]

Hi WVW,

It's only 10(?) days or so ago that a 15yr old girl was 'extracted' on the shore at Silverdale.

Unfortunately no amount of publicity appears to be working and according to Cedric the Queens Guide the sands are at their most dangerous in the last 30 years due to all the rain etc.

Cooking pot/pan producing the goods yet?


All the best


Boots

 

[whitevanwoman]

Hi WVW,

It's only 10(?) days or so ago that a 15yr old girl was 'extracted' on the shore at Silverdale.

Unfortunately no amount of publicity appears to be working and according to Cedric the Queens Guide the sands are at their most dangerous in the last 30 years due to all the rain etc.

Cooking pot/pan producing the goods yet?


All the best


Boots

I saw mention of that in the local news.

The couple today were lucky as the tide is at low ebb at present and so even at high tide today, which occured whilst they were stuck, they were not at risk of drowning. But in a couple of weeks time, at high ebb, the high tide would have covered the channel they were in.

One of the locals and a fireman both said the same thing as you, that the sand/mud is particularly unstable at the moment, because of all the rain.

I've used the stove top oven quite a bit now - apart from grilling bacon, and stir frying in the wok, it's my main way of cooking, but I'm still getting used to it and timings is guesswork and regular checking, as the cooker runs on butane gas cartridges, and so once they are half used, they don't burn as fast so that affects cooking time. But on a consistent heat, I would say that it's definitely cooks a bit quicker than the timings for a conventional oven. I have an oven temp gauge in it to see what temp it is and it gets up to 150C very quickly, within a couple of minutes, and if using a brand new gas cartridge, it gets to 200C within another couple of minutes.

It's great for cooking easy oven convenient food, eg pies, pasties, fish fingers, chicken burgers but the underneath cooks first so they need turning regularly. I haven't tried anything more adventurous but in all honesty, am unlikely to want to do so :lol-053:

The only thing which I can't imagine it will cook well is pizza - the bottom would crisp up nicely but the top wouldn't and you couldn't really turn it over.

I've solved the problem of things burning underneath by adding effectively a spacer collar which sits on the gas cooker and then the oven sits on that, raising it by a couple of inches. I used a small round biscuit tin, just cut the bottom out of it using a tin opener, and it works a treat, and fits neatly inside the oven when packed away.

The screwdriver is a cracking bit of kit and I've used it a couple of times now - many thanks for it. I do love the simplicity of the engineering in things like that, and also like my grandmother's hand sewing machine - old but designed so well that it can do the job just as well as the modern electrical equivalent and, unlike many modern items, it was made to last, not to be replaced in a couple of years time with a bigger/ faster model, or simply because parts needed replacing but its cheaper to buy a new one than pay to get the old one repaired.

 

[Deleted member 2636]

just tell them to try and drive from weston to brean at low tide lol on side not we have had fairshare on this coast of people getting stuck in mud burnham on sea has a hovercraft to help out with people getting stuck in the mud trying to walk out to the sea

There's a local recovery bloke down there who charges £1000 take it or leave it . There were some good videos on YouTube of a Range Rover being pulled out

 

[Wooie1958]

This isn`t going to go down well but here goes.....................

I`ve not much sympathy when this happens, there are more than enough Warning Signs in and around that area highlighting
the dangers of Quicksand and the speed of the Incoming Tide and if people " Cannot be Bothered " to read the signs then it`s Tough.

Morecambe Bay is notorious for Quicksand as well as the Speed the tide comes in and Arnside also has a " Bore"....Arnside and Silverdale AONB - Arnside Tidal Bore

If you are there when it is due you will hear the Siren / Claxon sound twice before it happens, 20 minutes and then again 5 minutes before it arrives.

Given the right conditions Extra High Spring Tide, New or Full Moon and Low Pressure and it can be pretty spectacular. The front at Arnside can have
hundreds of people waiting for it coming all ready to photograph and video it.

Whilst it is not as spectacular as the Severn Bore it still is very nice to see and a very good vantage point is The Old Pier, but get there early as it fills
up fast ( pardon the pun ).....................LOL

 

[Elliejane]

We were in the pub at Arnside with a friend who lives there a while back and suddenly it emptied. A few minutes later the lifeboat jet ski roared up to the viaduct, swiftly followed by the lifeboat (and the tide) to rescue a couple who had appeared on the sands in the middle on the far side of it. Good job the lifeboat crew were in the pub and saw the danger before the alarm was raised and saved precious minutes.

Another time a camper was parked on the car park near the station when there was a spring tide ..... Result, wet tyres! Not sure how far the tide came up, but I was glad I'd refused to park the van there.

But, I love that area.

 

[Wooie1958]

We were in the pub at Arnside with a friend who lives there a while back and suddenly it emptied. A few minutes later the lifeboat jet ski roared up to the viaduct, swiftly followed by the lifeboat (and the tide) to rescue a couple who had appeared on the sands in the middle on the far side of it. Good job the lifeboat crew were in the pub and saw the danger before the alarm was raised and saved precious minutes.

Another time a camper was parked on the car park near the station when there was a spring tide ..... Result, wet tyres! Not sure how far the tide came up, but I was glad I'd refused to park the van there.

But, I love that area.

It quite a few years back now but i saw a " Cracker " once there on the car park you mention.

If the conditions are just right and it`s going to be a " Big One " then they Cone Off the car park to stop people parking on there. Anyway some Numpties had moved
the cones and parked in there anyway and then put the cones back.

Well......in came the Bore and......WHOOOOOSH.......swamped cars................we laughed like hell.

If you do park on that car park there is a Cracking Chippy just over the road and whilst the wife nips over the road i get everything ready
in the van, table, knives, forks, salt and vinegar, kettle on etc. etc.

 

[Wooie1958]

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I`ll second that, well said.


It`s also worth nothing that the other side of the bay is just as dangerous.

The A5087 Priory Road / Coast Road that runs between the centre of Ulverston A590 and through Bardsea, Baycliff, Aldingham, Newbiggin, Roosebeck and on to Rampside
most of which has very easy access on to the sands and is also where a lot of the Cocklers work from is Very Very dangerous.

Once again there are lots of signs warning about this but you still see plenty of people ( many with young children ) way out on the sands.

I have a huge amount of admiration for the Emergency Services that have to put themselves in danger just to rescue these Stupid People.

 

[whitevanwoman]

I don't have much sympathy for the couple who were rescued yesterday either, I have more sympathy for the volunteer Bay rescue team who were called away from their families on Fathers ' day. But I think the couple will have been suitably embarrassed by the very public rescue and the number of spectators, all of whom will have learned a valuable lesson, especially a number of kids ~ I heard parents saying that's why they weren't allowed to go on the sands. What really brought home the danger was just how close to the road this happened, not out in the middle of the bay.

It was lucky there wasn't any fires or other incidents in south cumbria ~ with 3 fire engines there, there can't have been many other fire crews left in the south of the county to attend any other incidents, gone are the days when every small town had it's own fire crew and ambulance.

 

[Smaug]

I used to have a "drying" mud mooring on the Dee at Heswall & one day decided to walk ashore direct across the mud bank rather than the usual way of following the scoured out channel back to the clubhouse. I was wearing trainers & shorts so not stressed about getting muddy, but the young Mrs Smaug (this was some years ago) didn't want to risk it.

Back then, I too was young & gallant & I had crossed the mud before without problems so I said I would carry her safely across to the sand. I got off the boat & stood alongside so she could easily get on my back & we set off bravely for the shore. Everything went well at first, but as we entered the mud, I was surprised to notice that I was sinking deeper than usual. My dearly beloved's the 6 stone added to my own then 9 stone (I did say this was some time ago) was making my size 8' sink deeper & deeper.

Your feet sinking in isn't the problem tho is it? It's getting them out again. Pretty quickly the trainers came off, but that's no big deal, squishy thro the toes is quite nice if you like that sort of thing. But getting your feet out as you get close to upper calf requires you to lift your leg higher than normal & the standing foot tends to sink deeper while you do it. This requires you to lean a little to get the extra clearance above the mud, which is easy when solo - but add another person on your back & balancing becomes an issue . . .

Sure enough the inevitable happened & we went full length sprawled in the black gooey & smelly mud. We couldn't move - for laughing, we were hysterical. The tears leaving white streaks down our faces as we each looked at the mess the other was in simply made us laugh more.

Once we stood up, it was easy for each of us on our own to make our way ashore & the weather was warm & sunny as we walked back to the club & our full body mud packs started to dry out & crack as we walked. We washed off what we could at the tap outside & put plastic bags over the car seats before driving home, but Mrs S says I have not ever been so gallant since.

 

[Firefox]

I'm glad the couple were OK in the end. I guess they did have themselves to blame but it must have been very frightening all the same.

I wonder why they needed three engines to rescue two people very close to shore though especially with other emergency services, coastguards, volunteers, and police in attendance too. It seems overkill to me. One engine with the right kit and a crew of five or six would surely have been enough.

It's quite worrying, the small cover provided to rural areas, with all the cuts the fire service have had to suffer, and I hate to think someone would have been denied cover because of this incident.

 

[whitevanwoman]

Certainly more than 5 or 6 people were needed, there were 2 who went out on sledges to secure the casualties, with another 2 holding them on a safety line from a sandbank. A couple of others were rigging up more safety lines in case they were needed. Another dozen or so professionals were unpacking equipment, including inflatable jetties and inflating them and then carrying and placing them across a channel ready for safe extraction of all, whilst others were jetting water into the mud to loosen it - there will have been an incident manager plus radio operator, and the drivers will have to stay with the vehicles for security - not a big issue at Sandside, but it would be in urban areas... and it needed a good dozen men to pull the ropes on the sledges carrying the casualties across the mud to the inflatable bridge. I suspect they possibly couldn't use winches for some reason, as I'm sure they would have done if they could have.

At the beginning of any rescue incident it is very difficult to estimate exactly just what equipment or numbers of rescuers will be needed until the emergency services get on site and so it is far better, in a rural area where it is at least a half hour drive for any emergency vehicles, to over estimate and err on the side of caution as those not needed can be stood down. The crew of all 3 fire engines seemed to be involved somehow.

First on scene was the Coastguard and the Arnside Fire Crew - the priority was to secure the casualties and make a rescue plan. The second crew were doing something with water and hoses, I think they were loosening the mud, and the third was sorting out the inflatable bridges etc. I think it was 2 members of Coastguard staff who were first out to the casualties with plastic sledges to get them out of the mud and therefore into a safer position, whilst the rest of their team kept them safe on ropes. Bay Rescue turned up a bit later, as they will have to have been paged and then get to base from home, but it was them and the coastguard who actually did the rescue, with the fire service providing logistical support and then afterwards hosing down all the rescuers and kit. Just packing up and cleaning up after a rescue can take as long as the rescue itself, which proved to be the case yesterday.

When I was in the mountain rescue team, if we were to a "spot pick up" (ie no search required as the casualties location was known), a team of 12 -15 were required as there are several different specific roles, and then a team of 8 stretcher carriers is required, along with navigator, radio operator, first aiders, kit carriers and replacement stretcher carriers on a long extraction.

The first rule of any rescue is that the rescuers remain safe at all times and so for every rescuer involved hands on, at least one more is required to keep that rescuer safe, whether it is in mud or down a cliff face.

That's the problem with cutting services so that there is no slack in the system and the existing services are spread too thinly - there are no additional resources in the event of occasional but resource (ie manpower) intensive situations. On a busy sunny Sunday afternoon in Cumbria, it was pure luck that there was not another incident within the 50 mile radius which would have required the fire crews, whether it was a fire or another rescue situation.

And the police had their work cut out as it was on a bend in the main road to Arnside and there were alot of visitors out and about and alot of cars on the road, and all the emergency vehicles caused a major obstruction so traffic control was essential. A few firemen were also required to keep the spectators out of the way of the teams and equipment - people crowding everywhere to watch and definitely on a few occasions getting in the way.

So I don't think all the various teams were overkill - all 3 organisations (Fire service, coastguard and Bay Rescue) all have different skills and roles, and it was very impressive to watch them all work together so professionally.

Certainly round here, in terms of ambulance and fire cover, people are already being denied cover and have been for several years, as local ambulance stations are closed, and number of crews reduced. The mountain rescue team had a good relationship with the local ambulances, and they told us that there was regularly on 2 ambulances, based at Sedbergh to cover the whole of East Cumbria - that's from the Durham border to Penrith, down the A6 to Kendal and then across to Sedbergh, round the Howgills to the Yorks Dales border and Kirkby Stephen (and that was a couple of years ago when I was still in the rescue team, it may even be worse now). If you look at a map, this is a huge geographical area, and more often than not, casualties are taken to Carlisle, a good half hour - hour's drive. And then if there is a delay in admitting the casualty, that ambulance can be unavailable for several hours at a time, with another good half hour's drive back to base to do their own paperwork etc.

That's the problem with allocating resources according to numbers of population as opposed to geographical areas - both factors need to be taken into consideration, and what is appropriate for urban areas is not appropriate for rural areas and vice versa. But unless politicians and decision makers live in rural areas and experience these problems for themselves, they are ignored on the grounds that too few people are affected compared to cutting services in urban areas.

 

[Wooie1958]

The crew that was doing something with " Water and Hoses " is actually the piece of equipment that releases the casualties from the Mud / Sand.

In effect it is a Metal Lance that has small holes in it, this is then forced into the Mud / Sand around the victim and then water is pumped into it
under very high pressure.

This then Liquefies the Mud / Sand and makes it easier to pull the victim out.

 

[whitevanwoman]

The crew that was doing something with " Water and Hoses " is actually the piece of equipment that releases the casualties from the Mud / Sand.

In effect it is a Metal Lance that has small holes in it, this is then forced into the Mud / Sand around the victim and then water is pumped into it
under very high pressure.

This then Liquefies the Mud / Sand and makes it easier to pull the victim out.

Thanks for the explanation, scuse my layman's terms

 

[Bigpeetee]

Similar warnings in North Wales, last week a man got stuck up to his chest in Conwy Harbour, luckily the RNLI are there and managed to extract him. Conwy is a common stop over place but the river is treacherous with very strong currents and mud.

The other common area, again popular with MH's is Point of Ayr at Talacre. The tide is always changing the topography of the beach and from one tide to the next can change from hard sand to soft, with areas of quicksand.

I used to fly from the beach on occasions having taken a low pass to see if footprints could be seen. The lighter coloured areas of sand proved to be soft. I was following one of the little Suzuki 4x4's belting along the waters edge, splashing through the puddles. I remember saying to my student "this should be interesting" The Suzuki hit a pond only about 25 ft across, but it was dark in the middle!!

It was like a cartoon, the little Suzuki seemed to float on water until the middle then sank, luckily 4 heads popped to the surface, they were OK but little Suzuki wasn't!! Sank without trace, of course the tide was coming in, next day, no hole, no Suzuki.

I did see it occasionally and it moved quite a long way with the current, eventually vanishing into the deep water channel. Rusted quite well.

 

[maingate]

It does appear to be overkill David but there are reasons for it.

First of all, a number of Fire and Rescue Staff have died while attempting rescues.

Secondly, the Fire Brigades are dropping one member off an Appliance crew. So, if a certain number are required for an operation, it can mean turning out another vehicle (complete with crew).

These type of jobs require specialist training and only key members of the Brigade are fully trained (often staff at the nearest Fire Station). These members do change jobs and Stations, so there is an ongoing need to train up new staff.

My lad is a Station Manager with Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue. They have these same skills as there are mud flats at low tide on the River Tyne. Similar skills to the above are also used on rescues on frozen river and pond rescues.

 

[Firefox]

Interesting to see how all the various firecrews were deployed and the details of the rescue operation, but if this is what is needed for an incident like this, then the fire service cuts have been too deep and many people are going to be left without close cover on many occasions.

 

[maingate]

Interesting to see how all the various firecrews were deployed and the details of the rescue operation, but if this is what is needed for an incident like this, then the fire service cuts have been too deep and many people are going to be left without close cover on many occasions.

That is exactly what operational staff have been saying for a long time now.

It did not make any difference, the cutbacks went ahead. So did the pension cutbacks. :hammer: