Wallasey / New Brighton stopover under threat

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landoboguy said:
Nail , hammer, head Im afraid.
Thats councils for you
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That’s because we do nothing about it, as a matter of fact we do less than that.
Some on here are willing to admonish the councils for their actions.

We need to get organised with a body who will stand up for us, and who will have the resources and ability to remove those who think staying in one place for months is ok, emptying toilets in the sea or in appropriately is ok, or who are clearly not willing to abide by what most of us would regard as common decency.

But we also need to be provided with basic facilities akin to the aires in the continent.

There are over 200,000 of us and the number is growing year in year out, whilst the number of available urban pois is dwindling.

If things don’t change then we might as well forget about urban pois and head for the nearest caravan site, booking months in advance.
 
mickymost said:
Fisherman I get where you are coming from the age of a vehicle motorhome or campervan is unimportant providing said owners dont take advantage and use a parkup for weeks on end like some seem to do.But as you say in local councils eyes the motorhomer is becoming an easy target and the daytrippers who we have witnessed on many occasions are the ones who make the mess. And we get tarred with that dirty brush!

Michael
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Spot on, and they are still at liberty to keep making a mess.

We were at a poi in Berwick on tweed this year and my wife and I tidied up the mess left by some youngsters the night before. If we go back there again I would not be shocked to find a no overnight parking sign there.
 
[I"Despite council officers having found no “tangible evidence” of environmental crimes, complaints about the van owners included waste being thrown into the sea, so councillors requested a meeting with officers to discuss options." [/I]

Despite our desire to believe that we behave like this - if there is no tangible evidence that we've done this then there is no evidence. I'd be willing to bet that if someone was to ask under the Freedom of Information Act for details of such complaints there will be none such. I'd go further - there will be a negligible number of complaints on any grounds - probaby none. Wide experience says this.

This evidence thing is important in every other activity. Expressed as Innocent until Proven Guilty. I'm innocent and so is every other motorhomer without tangible evidence.

I have no idea why we wish to denigrate ourselves like this. Banning is a failure to address the real problems and the reason why the real problems are not addressed is that they do not exist and have to be made up. Experience shows time after time that complaints from the public are given as the reasons for banning. Time after time the FoI shows there are no complaints in any significant numbers from the public.

Many of the comments on Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe are revealng.

I had hopes that this was to be a success story and I wonder why it isn't.
 
Fisherman said:
That’s because we do nothing about it, as a matter of fact we do less than that.
Some on here are willing to admonish the councils for their actions.

We need to get organised with a body who will stand up for us, and who will have the resources and ability to remove those who think staying in one place for months is ok, emptying toilets in the sea or in appropriately is ok, or who are clearly not willing to abide by what most of us would regard as common decency.

But we also need to be provided with basic facilities akin to the aires in the continent.

There are over 200,000 of us and the number is growing year in year out, whilst the number of available urban pois is dwindling.

If things don’t change then we might as well forget about urban pois and head for the nearest caravan site, booking months in advance.
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The local councillors would love this i/e those who it has been proven have an interest yes part own the caravan sites.That is what they want us to do.book into their sites and park up in rows regimentally.

Michael
 
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mickymost said:
The local councillors would love this i/e those who it has been proven have an interest yes part own the caravan sites.That is what they want us to do.book into their sites and park up in rows regimentally.Two weeks ago due to a cheap deal we booked into a site in Hunstanton for four nights and on the third day while there our motorhome aquired four new dents to the rear due to an irresponsible mower rider (not cutting any grass)who went past our Hymer ripping the electric hook up lead from its socket so it banged across the rear of our Hymer causing the four small new dents.The managment on the site are not in the least interested ( a multi million pound company btw)and have told me to claim under my own insurance.Bloody cheek.Ive even contacted their head office and no joy.So at present im not keen on visiting any more camping and caravan sites...

Michael
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Right now we are individuals complaining about our disgraceful treatment.
Akin to a customer of BT phoning up to make a complaint.
But that customer can refer them to ofcom giving the customer more leverage over a multi billion pound company. We don’t have an ofcom we are like sitting ducks waiting to be picked of one by one as is happening. Your incident could be dealt with by a legal dept within an organisation set up for us and bye us. I would be more than willing to pay an annual subscription to finance such an organisation. Right now all we read on here are councils behaving badly. As you say Michael we are up against those with self interest at heart, and they are being backed up by councils who value their annual taxes.

We need to put be able to put similar pressure on, if not things are going to get a whole lot worse.
 
maureenandtom said:
[I"Despite council officers having found no “tangible evidence” of environmental crimes, complaints about the van owners included waste being thrown into the sea, so councillors requested a meeting with officers to discuss options." [/I]

Despite our desire to believe that we behave like this - if there is no tangible evidence that we've done this then there is no evidence. I'd be willing to bet that if someone was to ask under the Freedom of Information Act for details of such complaints there will be none such. I'd go further - there will be a negligible number of complaints on any grounds - probaby none. Wide experience says this.

This evidence thing is important in every other activity. Expressed as Innocent until Proven Guilty. I'm innocent and so is every other motorhomer without tangible evidence.

I have no idea why we wish to denigrate ourselves like this. Banning is a failure to address the real problems and the reason why the real problems are not addressed is that they do not exist and have to be made up. Experience shows time after time that complaints from the public are given as the reasons for banning. Time after time the FoI shows there are no complaints in any significant numbers from the public.

Many of the comments on Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe are revealng.

I had hopes that this was to be a success story and I wonder why it isn't.
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It’s really sad when some fellow Motorhomers are willing to point the finger at us, instead of the politicians who spend the hundreds millions we give them every year whilst doing nothing for us appart from banning us from more and more areas.
 
It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.
 
caledonia said:
It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.
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It's interesting that you give North Berwick as an example.

North Berwick is (was) one of our success stories. Well, a partial success. East Lothian County Council attempted to ban overnight parking of motorhomes by instituting a bye-law prohibiting us. Some of us objected – discredited the reasons for the bye-law successfully – and the Scottish Govt refused to authorise it. So for at least a few years motorhomers could continue to park overnight legally.

Has this changed? I hadn't heard that the council had eventually fought back?

What's the present situation up there? It was heartening to know, from that experience, that we could sometimes win.

It was documented on here so searching could bring up details.
 
caledonia said:
It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.
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No Caledonia we are not police officers, we have no power. What we should do is report such things to the council and let them deal with it.
Try complaining to morons like that, and you might finish up needing an ambulance.

I don't totally blame the councils for this. Whats required is funding from central government, allowing the councils to make provision for us.

If they spent only 10% of what we put in each year in taxes it could transform this country.

Lothian councils have adopted a no tolerance policy towards us throughout their region, even in rural car parks I have seen barriers and signage.
 
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Yes you can still overnight at North Berwick if you can get squeezed in beside the regulars or share the top car park with the boy racers and dope smokers.
 
caledonia said:
Yes you can still overnight at North Berwick if you can get squeezed in beside the regulars or share the top car park with the boy racers and dope smokers.
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Sounds like they have problems here then Caledonia, I wonder what they are doing about the boy racers and the dope smokers.

I reckon we both know, the same as what they are doing at Musselburgh, nothing.

But us, well they are right on top of things.
 
mickymost said:
Am I missing something or does north berwick date being 2012 if so whats happening there now? Ie can we park overnight or not ?

Michael
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Yes. 2011/12. This steady loss of overnight parking places has been going on a longish time. We had another bye-law success at about the same time - with Aberdeen. Apart from Loch Lomond - which I think wasn't a council - I think there were no more bye-laws introduced in Scotland. I think that was down to us discrediting the reasons for them. Councils now have public spaces protection orders which are easier for councils to implement and more difficult for us to combat.
 
runnach said:
A while back, maybe year, or more? A member posted a link to East Lothian Council planning on-line portal, there was/is, an application by ELC to re-jig the North Berwick Haugh Rd parking area, when I looked at the various plans, it was clear the re-jig would incorporate a design that would make the current MH over night practice, very difficult/impossible.

To date, we have the Status Quo, but on a recent stopover, I noticed all the picnic benches were removed, maybe a case of watch this space???

Another point, ELC were discussing adding another car park at the grass area behind the homes at Tantallon Terrace, I think area next to golf club CP?

Locals puts signs up asking for signatures to a petition to save their grass areas (which I would do too, if I lived there) to date, I have heard no more on this, but, I can certainly understand local resentment to MH and other type vehicles, over staying, worst I saw was the converted horse transporter, which frequented Musselburgh Harbour, too.

In these times of councils being strapped for cash, maybe one day they will wake up and smell the coffee and cater MH use, even for a small fee??
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Last year we went to Musselburgh twice months appart and each time there was a Spanish couple living in a delapadaded caravan. They would get up in the morning and head of to work then come back in the evening. I have no doubt this did not go unnoticed, and this amongst other things led to the harbour now being of bounds.
Councils need funding from central government to help finance our requirements, and I don’t see us getting any such funding as things stand.
 
runnach said:
Agreed, but Fife Council are utilising Lochore Meadows, with facilities for MH's. Elie too, have taken a lenient approach, also a dilapidated tourer parked up permanently, which is lived in. Anyways, we can always hope!
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Sadly runnach I think we need more than hope.

We worked out on here recently just how much we put into government coffers with vat, fuel duty, etc, not to mention the thousands we keep in employment, and it came to over a billion a year. Just 10% of that spent on infrastructure for us would gradually change things for the better. And not just for us, local residents would benefit also from proper controls. I have nothing against modest fees also being levied per night. What we have right now is open warfare between us and councils who are completely ignorant about us, and apply a heavy hand with no comeback whatsoever.
 
Fisherman said:
Sadly runnach I think we need more than hope.

We worked out on here recently just how much we put into government coffers with vat, fuel duty, etc, not to mention the thousands we keep in employment, and it came to over a billion a year. Just 10% of that spent on infrastructure for us would gradually change things for the better. And not just for us, local residents would benefit also from proper controls. I have nothing against modest fees also being levied per night. What we have right now is open warfare between us and councils who are completely ignorant about us, and apply a heavy hand with no comeback whatsoever.
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I think you are doing to Councils what you accuse them doing to us, in tarnishing them all with the same brush. Several Councils are now permitting motorhomes to stay overnight in the town car parks at a modest cost for a limited number of nights. They may not be where you want them to be, but they do exist. Indeed, I spent two weeks away in September just using these car parks, with just two nights in a CL's to fill and discharge.
 
Chester city have got it right IMHO at the Roodee car park, makes me wonder why other authorities can't do similar.
 
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