maingate
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Hey, butt out, there is a queue you know. :mad1:
UNDOING DUCATO 2.5 TDi CRANKSHAFT PULLEY BOLT - Which way?
- Thread starter Stanski
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Hey, butt out, there is a queue you know. :mad1:
maingate
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You may be looking at the wrong download. It is a right pain to download for a numpty like me but I managed after a few attempts.
The best thing is to do a search on downloading it. That is how I found out but it was some time ago and I cannot remember exactly how I did it. In fact I cannot now find the DVD with it on. :rolleyes2: Looks like I will have to go through the pain all over again. :beer:
I know that you first need to download an eper program, plenty free ones or 30 day trial ones on the net.
Edited to add: It looks like they have changed it all .... oops.
I found this site I had bookmarked but don't know how good the product is. http://www.whichmanuals.co.uk/products/Fiat-Ducato-Workshop-Manual.html
I think you are right about it only being a spare parts list but it might be of some help.
The best thing is to do a search on downloading it. That is how I found out but it was some time ago and I cannot remember exactly how I did it. In fact I cannot now find the DVD with it on. :rolleyes2: Looks like I will have to go through the pain all over again. :beer:
I know that you first need to download an eper program, plenty free ones or 30 day trial ones on the net.
Edited to add: It looks like they have changed it all .... oops.
I found this site I had bookmarked but don't know how good the product is. http://www.whichmanuals.co.uk/products/Fiat-Ducato-Workshop-Manual.html
I think you are right about it only being a spare parts list but it might be of some help.
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Stanski
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Cider more likely
Thanks User1 - Probably Cider would be more fashionable in this neck of the woods.
:cheers:
Thanks User1 - Probably Cider would be more fashionable in this neck of the woods.
:cheers:
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as for changing the water pump ,many years ago the vanes in the pump were made of metal ,but nowadays they are being made more and more of a plastic material it seems .this plastic i will call it tends to wear unlike the metal ones of old ,so as they wear they arnt as efficient at circulating the coolant ,thus all the problems you have .the only water pump i used to change when replacing timing belts was on the vauxhall ohc engine as that was also the tensioner/adjuster for the cam belt and most were damaged on removel of the belt ,they sized into the engine itself . so yes it is best to change the water pump if driven off the timing belt and other associated idlers tensioners that come into contact with the belt ,as if they should fail then it will instantly dislodge your new timing belt and wreck your engine. as we called it eaten the crisps and supped the pop sorry forgot to add most idler tensioners are also made of a plastic stuff they dont whine and grumble as the older steel one did warning you they just fail
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stonedaddy
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Which is it.
I am watching this thread with interest. I have also bought the timing belt kits ready to do my engine, but its either raining or I am using the van so not a lot of action as taken place yet. I am a bit baffled by what engine you have, you say its the 2.5 TDi. I have the old Talbot Express 2.5 TD which I think is the same as the Fiat Ducato.
In my crappy Peter Russek manual the three diesel engines listed are,
1.9 litre diesel engine XUD9A (D98)
2.5 litre diesel engine U25/651
2.5 litre turbo diesel engine U25/673
Mine is the latter and inside the timing case are two timing belts and adjuster kits. One is the crankshaft, camshaft, oil pump timing belt plus tensioners.
The other is the diesel injector pump to camshaft timing belt and tensioner. There are exactly 35 teeth between points A and B in the manual and all have to be spot on to the timing marks.
I have a feeling that yours is a completely different engine to what I am looking at as the water pump on mine is at the other end of the engine with the alternator and brake vacuum pump. There are 4 more drive belts at the other end as well so yours could be a lot more modern than my old tug. I will just put up a link to show how my timing gear looks and the kit I bought.
TALBOT EXPRESS TIMING BELT KIT 2.5D 82-94 OE QUALITY | eBay
Keep us informed as I am worried about the room between the timing gear and the inner engine compartment panels for getting tools in to do the job. Good luck with yours.
.... Tom ....
I am watching this thread with interest. I have also bought the timing belt kits ready to do my engine, but its either raining or I am using the van so not a lot of action as taken place yet. I am a bit baffled by what engine you have, you say its the 2.5 TDi. I have the old Talbot Express 2.5 TD which I think is the same as the Fiat Ducato.
In my crappy Peter Russek manual the three diesel engines listed are,
1.9 litre diesel engine XUD9A (D98)
2.5 litre diesel engine U25/651
2.5 litre turbo diesel engine U25/673
Mine is the latter and inside the timing case are two timing belts and adjuster kits. One is the crankshaft, camshaft, oil pump timing belt plus tensioners.
The other is the diesel injector pump to camshaft timing belt and tensioner. There are exactly 35 teeth between points A and B in the manual and all have to be spot on to the timing marks.
I have a feeling that yours is a completely different engine to what I am looking at as the water pump on mine is at the other end of the engine with the alternator and brake vacuum pump. There are 4 more drive belts at the other end as well so yours could be a lot more modern than my old tug. I will just put up a link to show how my timing gear looks and the kit I bought.
TALBOT EXPRESS TIMING BELT KIT 2.5D 82-94 OE QUALITY | eBay
Keep us informed as I am worried about the room between the timing gear and the inner engine compartment panels for getting tools in to do the job. Good luck with yours.
.... Tom ....
Deleted member 775
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they make engines so complicated now glad i am out of the spanner wielding trade .
the new ford diesels are the same i have a 2.0 duratorque in my 04 mondeo .they are also fitted in the new transit so many with vans based on these may come up against the confusion they can cause according to form they are chain driven ,but some have a chain and belt and others are all belt mad
the new ford diesels are the same i have a 2.0 duratorque in my 04 mondeo .they are also fitted in the new transit so many with vans based on these may come up against the confusion they can cause according to form they are chain driven ,but some have a chain and belt and others are all belt mad
stonedaddy
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Yes, Tom, yours is the older type of engine. This is what the timing belts will look like on your engine:
UNDOING DUCATO 2.5 TDi CRANKSHAFT PULLEY BOLT - Which way?-timing_belt.jpg
Did you download the pdf that I put on my server, in my earlier post? That shows your engine in detail. I don't know how it compares with the Peter Russek book. May be it is a copy of it. Perhaps you could tell me. I have all the other chapters on the PC as pdfs, having bought a CD with those and loads of other Talbot/Ducato stuff.
Yup looked at your PDF file and it is much clearer than the Peter Russek manual. I also have the CDs and they are more rubbish than the manual. The drawings on both manual and CD is really poor very dark and and not fit for purpose really. Without any Haynes manuals I suppose beggars can't be choosers. Thanks for sharing your PDF files I am sure they will come in very handy when I get round to doing the job.
.... Tom ....
UNDOING DUCATO 2.5 TDi CRANKSHAFT PULLEY BOLT - Which way?-timing_belt.jpg
Did you download the pdf that I put on my server, in my earlier post? That shows your engine in detail. I don't know how it compares with the Peter Russek book. May be it is a copy of it. Perhaps you could tell me. I have all the other chapters on the PC as pdfs, having bought a CD with those and loads of other Talbot/Ducato stuff.
Yup looked at your PDF file and it is much clearer than the Peter Russek manual. I also have the CDs and they are more rubbish than the manual. The drawings on both manual and CD is really poor very dark and and not fit for purpose really. Without any Haynes manuals I suppose beggars can't be choosers. Thanks for sharing your PDF files I am sure they will come in very handy when I get round to doing the job.
.... Tom ....
stonedaddy
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stonedaddy
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Is it the Sofin
Just curious to know is yours the Italian built engine the SOFIN. The Ducato had a number of these fitted over the years and that was the only model to have this engine out of all the similar models.
.... Tom ....
Just curious to know is yours the Italian built engine the SOFIN. The Ducato had a number of these fitted over the years and that was the only model to have this engine out of all the similar models.
.... Tom ....
Stanski
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Ducato sofin engine?
Still puzzled myself. Confident it is a normal engine as all parts fit as expected. In addition was lent a 1998 cambelt book by a mechanic colleague today and it shows my Cambelt layout but for a 1.9 TD engine. As mine is a 2.5TDi and vehicle is for european market I believe the engine may be same engine as 1.9 but with a different block.
16APR14
After speaking with Mike personally yesterday (Whilst getting the part I messed up) he clarified how to identify the engine as a SOFIN type. The SOFIN model is identified on the identification plate with 8140.47 - And mine is this.
Still puzzled myself. Confident it is a normal engine as all parts fit as expected. In addition was lent a 1998 cambelt book by a mechanic colleague today and it shows my Cambelt layout but for a 1.9 TD engine. As mine is a 2.5TDi and vehicle is for european market I believe the engine may be same engine as 1.9 but with a different block.
16APR14
After speaking with Mike personally yesterday (Whilst getting the part I messed up) he clarified how to identify the engine as a SOFIN type. The SOFIN model is identified on the identification plate with 8140.47 - And mine is this.
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Stanski
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2.5TDi - WATER PUMP & CAMBELT Part2
The saga of the water pump removal. Only four 15mm bolts it seems - Ha Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho. How many torments can a designer give a person.
First torment - finding the radiator drain valve. Hidden behind starter motor cables secured to crossmember and difficult access with A/C motor and power steering pipes restricting screwdriver positioning.
Second torment - drain water. Cables and pipes causes uncontrolled water flow and extensive deflection of water so got very wet.
Third torment - access to remove 13mm nuts securing water pipe to rear of water pump. Alternator needs to be fully detached.
Fourth torment - water pump pulley. Securing bolts were awkward to undo, then pulley found very firmly rusted to the drive flange and could not be removed. Had to find solution for removal of top bolt water pump.
Fifth torment - access to the top bolt of the water pump. Found it was just possible using a 15mm socket and a partially fitted socket drive to tease the bolt out. Just enough room with pulley in situ.
Sixth torment - mounting bracket. Engine required supporting - Once 17mm bolts undone engine rocks forward.
Seventh torment - retracting damper piston. Piston pressure against tensioner bracket places a side force on all waterpump bolts. Need a suitable device/tool to hold back the piston (1cm wide).
HOORAY#1 - Old Waterpump off after 2 hours +.
HOORAY#2 - New water pump supplied is same as old one.
HOORAY#3 - Water pump fitted after prep of gasket, seal and studs.
Now to resolve that tiredness stupidity problem......... more tomorrow.
The saga of the water pump removal. Only four 15mm bolts it seems - Ha Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho. How many torments can a designer give a person.
First torment - finding the radiator drain valve. Hidden behind starter motor cables secured to crossmember and difficult access with A/C motor and power steering pipes restricting screwdriver positioning.
Second torment - drain water. Cables and pipes causes uncontrolled water flow and extensive deflection of water so got very wet.
Third torment - access to remove 13mm nuts securing water pipe to rear of water pump. Alternator needs to be fully detached.
Fourth torment - water pump pulley. Securing bolts were awkward to undo, then pulley found very firmly rusted to the drive flange and could not be removed. Had to find solution for removal of top bolt water pump.
Fifth torment - access to the top bolt of the water pump. Found it was just possible using a 15mm socket and a partially fitted socket drive to tease the bolt out. Just enough room with pulley in situ.
Sixth torment - mounting bracket. Engine required supporting - Once 17mm bolts undone engine rocks forward.
Seventh torment - retracting damper piston. Piston pressure against tensioner bracket places a side force on all waterpump bolts. Need a suitable device/tool to hold back the piston (1cm wide).
HOORAY#1 - Old Waterpump off after 2 hours +.
HOORAY#2 - New water pump supplied is same as old one.
HOORAY#3 - Water pump fitted after prep of gasket, seal and studs.
Now to resolve that tiredness stupidity problem......... more tomorrow.
stonedaddy
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Superb
Great piece of mechanical doggedness Stanski. I bet firing it up the first time was a bum twitcher. Get the timing out could have been a disaster, well done. My belts are still on a shelf in the garage. I have only about a inch and half gap from the inner wheel arch and the timing gear. I also think I have to take the engine mountings off to do the job but that's life.
.... Tom ....
Great piece of mechanical doggedness Stanski. I bet firing it up the first time was a bum twitcher. Get the timing out could have been a disaster, well done. My belts are still on a shelf in the garage. I have only about a inch and half gap from the inner wheel arch and the timing gear. I also think I have to take the engine mountings off to do the job but that's life.
.... Tom ....
Stanski
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1998 ducato cambelt access
Is the gap actually this small? I had to manage with just about the width of the Cambelt cover (approx 2") where the A/C bottle was, and a little more lower down and forward of the chassis arm. From my limited experience engines are positioned to allow this type of maintenance.
Fortunately I had access to a friends 3/4" drive socket set with a 36mm socket to undo the Crank pulley Nut, my own tools are normal 1/4" and 1/2" drive sockets and spanners from various sets obtained over the years. A major help was having an old 3 ton hydraulic jack although vehicle jack would have served the same purpose.
Have taken some photos to hopefully present the scene - having difficulty loading them from camera at mo so later I hope.
Is the gap actually this small? I had to manage with just about the width of the Cambelt cover (approx 2") where the A/C bottle was, and a little more lower down and forward of the chassis arm. From my limited experience engines are positioned to allow this type of maintenance.
Fortunately I had access to a friends 3/4" drive socket set with a 36mm socket to undo the Crank pulley Nut, my own tools are normal 1/4" and 1/2" drive sockets and spanners from various sets obtained over the years. A major help was having an old 3 ton hydraulic jack although vehicle jack would have served the same purpose.
Have taken some photos to hopefully present the scene - having difficulty loading them from camera at mo so later I hope.
Stanski
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But thats what UK Bank Hols are for. We are normally away at Easter following Saloon Stock Cars so wet race tracks is expected.
How warm is it in Pontivy in October? We seriously are looking to become semi-retired so am seeking objectives to experience?
How warm is it in Pontivy in October? We seriously are looking to become semi-retired so am seeking objectives to experience?
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Stanski
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DUCATO SOFIN 2.5TDi CAMBELT ACCESS PHOTO(s)
First attempt in doing this on this forum - fingers crossed.
Not the best pic but from it if you can perceive the available room. The A/C bottle is approx 4" diameter., 1/2 of it sits on the chassis/ bracket fitted to mounting bracket front bolt.
The belts at the bottom are the Generator belt (Left) / A/C belt (Right).
First attempt in doing this on this forum - fingers crossed.
Not the best pic but from it if you can perceive the available room. The A/C bottle is approx 4" diameter., 1/2 of it sits on the chassis/ bracket fitted to mounting bracket front bolt.
The belts at the bottom are the Generator belt (Left) / A/C belt (Right).
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