merl
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What brand and type were they please? Need to know what to avoid
Tyres
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yeoblade
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Suzuki what,, Rwd?
colinm
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4x4, yes I know that's completely different to a FWD, but believe me the differance in grip between cross climates and summer tyres in the snow is a lot!
guerdeval
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Tbh I don’t think they’re noisy at all but my hearing isn’t great and they could never compete with my passenger anyway.Any difference in noise in the cab and ride quality would you say? Looking for similar myself but really don't want any additional vibration (I like my fillings) and noise. Cheers.
Deneb
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Colinm is quite correct. I worked on a serious and fatal collision investigation unit for many years. You should never fit all season or winter tyres to just one axle, or indeed any tyres with different handling characteristics; and even with the same tyres all round, the tyres with most tread depth should always be on the rear axle, whether front or rear wheel drive. If you need two new front tyres, it is prudent to move the rear tyres to the front and have brand new tyres fitted to the rear. In normal driving conditions on good road surfaces you are unlikely to notice any difference. It is when the unexpected occurs and you have to make a sudden or coarse steering and/or braking input that things can very quickly go wrong, particularly if the vehicle is already unsettled, because for instance you are negotiating a bend or travelling over rough, loose or slippery ground. The result can be a sudden and vicious breakaway of the rear end of the vehicle, which may happen extremely quickly with little or no warning, and may be virtually impossible to control. It is not just a theoretical issue. I have seen the results too many times. One that still haunts me from time to time was a young woman who had very recently had two new tyres fitted to the front wheels of her MPV. The rear tyres were still legal but approaching the limit of tread depth. She had to brake suddenly on a bend on a wet road whilst returning from the school run. The rear end of the vehicle stepped out causing her to leave the road and hit a tree, leaving one of her children with serious life changing injuries.
merl
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Grip, risk, danger etc etc are all factors within a grey area, trying to apply black and white rules to a grey situation is impossible to get correct.
Obviously don't know the situation of the accident you describe above but the driver would have handled the situation way better with more experience and if she wasn't driving as fast. What would have happened if the all weather tyres have had been fitted to the rear rather than the front? Maybe she'd have simply understeered into trouble instead? We'll never know.
So yep, if you're going to drive outside the road conditions then you need all the help you can get so best to recommend everyone getting (and paying for of course) a brand new set of the best wet weather tyres possible and changing them every month just to make sure you've always got as much grip as physically possible.
While you're all doing that I'll go for a new set of all weathers on the front and keep my existing ones on the rear for now and then just drive sensibly.
Deneb
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She wasn't driving fast. I could quote numerous other examples, many of them fatal. I don't doubt you drive sensibly, but one day you might come across a situation perhaps caused by someone else not driving so sensibly, which requires you to brake suddenly on a bend, take avoiding steering action or both, and what might have been relatively undramatic with the same type of tyre all round could swiftly turn into something that you will find you cannot control.Grip, risk, danger etc etc are all factors within a grey area, trying to apply black and white rules to a grey situation is impossible to get correct.
Obviously don't know the situation of the accident you describe above but the driver would have handled the situation way better with more experience and if she wasn't driving as fast. What would have happened if the all weather tyres have had been fitted to the rear rather than the front? Maybe she'd have simply understeered into trouble instead? We'll never know.
So yep, if you're going to drive outside the road conditions then you need all the help you can get so best to recommend everyone getting (and paying for of course) a brand new set of the best wet weather tyres possible and changing them every month just to make sure you've always got as much grip as physically possible.
While you're all doing that I'll go for a new set of all weathers on the front and keep my existing ones on the rear for now and then just drive sensibly.
As one of my textbooks on motor vehicle design and technology explains, the imbalance can result in a loss of control "which may be sudden and vicious, with little or no advanced warning to the driver, making it difficult if not impossible for even the most experienced of drivers to control".
For many people, that may never happen, but some of those it does happen to aren't alive to regret the decision. Often they may also walk away with barely a scratch having caused the death or serious injury of someone else.
You will find that tyre manufacturers all agree:
2 or 4 winter tyres: how many winter tyres do I need on my vehicle?
Do you need 2 or 4 winter tyres on your car? Michelin explains why, contrary to popular opinion, it is better to have 4 winter tyres.
www.michelin.co.uk
and Goodyear:
Can you mix Summer and All Season Tyres?
You should not mix all season and summer tyres. If you are changing your tyres to all season, you should put all season tyres on all four wheels. Equally, you should not mix all season tyres with winter tyres or summer tyres with winter tyres. Always fit the same type of tyre on all four wheels.If you mix tyres, you will create an imbalance in grip and traction which will increase the chances of you losing control of your vehicle. Cars rely on all four tyres evenly, regardless of whether your car is rear wheel drive or front wheel drive and as such the same tyre should be fitted on all four wheels.
ml
merl
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Oh, manufacturers and garages want me to change all 4 tyres and not 2....what a surprise.She wasn't driving fast. I could quote numerous other examples, many of them fatal. I don't doubt you drive sensibly, but one day you might come across a situation perhaps caused by someone else not driving so sensibly, which requires you to brake suddenly on a bend, take avoiding steering action or both, and what might have been relatively undramatic with the same type of tyre all round could swiftly turn into something that you will find you cannot control.
As one of my textbooks on motor vehicle design and technology explains, the imbalance can result in a loss of control "which may be sudden and vicious, with little or no advanced warning to the driver, making it difficult if not impossible for even the most experienced of drivers to control".
For many people, that may never happen, but some of those it does happen to aren't alive to regret the decision. Often they may also walk away with barely a scratch having caused the death or serious injury of someone else.
You will find that tyre manufacturers all agree:
2 or 4 winter tyres: how many winter tyres do I need on my vehicle?
Do you need 2 or 4 winter tyres on your car? Michelin explains why, contrary to popular opinion, it is better to have 4 winter tyres.
and Goodyear:
Can you mix Summer and All Season Tyres?
You should not mix all season and summer tyres. If you are changing your tyres to all season, you should put all season tyres on all four wheels. Equally, you should not mix all season tyres with winter tyres or summer tyres with winter tyres. Always fit the same type of tyre on all four wheels.
If you mix tyres, you will create an imbalance in grip and traction which will increase the chances of you losing control of your vehicle. Cars rely on all four tyres evenly, regardless of whether your car is rear wheel drive or front wheel drive and as such the same tyre should be fitted on all four wheels.
ml
motorwaycafe
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At the end of the day do you want more grip in bad conditions, or a couple of more quid in your back pocket to pay for a possible bump of call out when stuck on a verge?
colinm
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I would reiterate my earlier post that tyre manufacturers are perfectly happy with you only changing two tyres, as long as the tyres are the same type.
merl
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Precisely, it's risk V reward.
How much more money will I have in my back pocket?? How likely am I going to need that extra grip?? In order to make my choice I need reliable information, not information that's anecdotal, biased or comes from a source with a vested interest.
I mean let's take the lady who crashed in the previous story because she put the grippy tyres on the front rather than the rear. If she'd have been travelling through a village at say 25 in the wet and a child stepped out in front of her then doubtless she'd stop quicker with the tyres apparently incorrectly fitted. How many lives have been saved by putting 2 grippy tyres on the front rather than the rear? We'll never know because not killing someone doesn't get recorded in the same way. It doesn't make a great anecdote either.
colinm
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So you are saying my experience is anecdotal, or I have a vested interest. Let me assure you my experience of have only 2 crossclimate tyres on my Suzi was not anecdotal, and I don't work for a tyre manufacturer or seller.
As I've posted before on other threads, in summer it was not a problem, in wet cold conditions I never found a big problem, in snow it was a nightmare. After my first journey in snow with only only 2 crossclimates I was straight on the phone to order 2 more.
merl
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Colin, your anecdote was anecdotal, that's what an anecdote is
, a piece of advice based on personal accounts that may not be useful because it's not research based. You're Suzi is/was 4WD so not really directly comparable to me or campers in general.Deneb's anecdote (who I was actually replying to) we know very little about the facts and how/if the mixed tyres contributed and as mentioned previously we don't know how many times the tyres being mounted apparently incorrectly may have actually helped and saved a life.
FWIW, Richardhelen26 posted he'd done 500miles a day doing courier work and never felt any issues even in the wet, if he was in a laden van then his anecdote I would personally find more applicable.
No, not suggesting you've a vested interest, I was referring to tyre sellers and manufacturers quoted by Deneb that will obviously err on the side of caution and suggest/recommend 'new tyres all round'(but not insist because they can't as it's not deemed dangerous enough to be made law) because they sell more tyres when punters get fearful.
wildebus
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When I bought my new-to-me Motorhome, it had 4 perfectly legal tyres. They were also of 3 different makes.
Now I know plenty of people would be fine with that, but one of the first things I did (within 2 weeks) was to get 4 new matching tyres as I am much happier not only when the tyres match on the same axle, but the front and rears match as well
And I also chose all-weather tyres in the guise of Michelin Cross-Climates. A better tyre would be hard to find. The only thing keeping you on the road are the tyres... is it really an area to penny-pinch on?
Now I know plenty of people would be fine with that, but one of the first things I did (within 2 weeks) was to get 4 new matching tyres as I am much happier not only when the tyres match on the same axle, but the front and rears match as well
And I also chose all-weather tyres in the guise of Michelin Cross-Climates. A better tyre would be hard to find. The only thing keeping you on the road are the tyres... is it really an area to penny-pinch on?
merl
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Maybe, maybe not, it all depends on the risk and how much you save David. That may sound like a crass statement at first but when you analyse it that's exactly what we're all doing every day with virtually ALL our actions. Will you be dumping those tyres 1/2 way through their lives? If not why? Surely a brand new set would be marginally better and like you say "is it really an area worth penny pinching on?" A ridiculous comparison? It's extreme yes but ultimately it boils down to where you draw the line and like most folks you probably will not dump them 1/2 way into their lives because technically you'll make the decision to save money and run them a little longer.When I bought my new-to-me Motorhome, it had 4 perfectly legal tyres. They were also of 3 different makes.
Now I know plenty of people would be fine with that, but one of the first things I did (within 2 weeks) was to get 4 new matching tyres as I am much happier not only when the tyres match on the same axle, but the front and rears match as well
And I also chose all-weather tyres in the guise of Michelin Cross-Climates. A better tyre would be hard to find. The only thing keeping you on the road are the tyres... is it really an area to penny-pinch on?
You make your choice and you explain why you made those choices, you then asked questions as to why anyone else would sensibly do otherwise. I don't have a problem with that but (and I think you'll be with me here) telling folks what to do with not a lot of applicable data isn't up my street and if I see folks doing that I'll pull them up. And yeh, I'm a bit of a twat like that, some would say I'm just a twat period.
Robmac
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I can't disagree with what you say there Merl, many people run their tyres right down until they are close to illegal - me included. I'm a bit 'meh' about the van tyres to be honest, I give them a kick now and again and a hard stare and off we go.
I'm the opposite on the motorbike though because it takes much less to make you come a cropper so once they're a few hours old I want to change 'em!
colinm
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The tyre sellers and manufacturers are happy for anyone to replace only two tyres at a time, as long as they are the same 'season', they will only object to people mixing different 'season' tyres.Colin, your anecdote was anecdotal, that's what an anecdote is
Deneb's anecdote (who I was actually replying to) we know very little about the facts and how/if the mixed tyres contributed and as mentioned previously we don't know how many times the tyres being mounted apparently incorrectly may have actually helped and saved a life.
FWIW, Richardhelen26 posted he'd done 500miles a day doing courier work and never felt any issues even in the wet, if he was in a laden van then his anecdote I would personally find more applicable.
No, not suggesting you've a vested interest, I was referring to tyre sellers and manufacturers quoted by Deneb that will obviously err on the side of caution and suggest/recommend 'new tyres all round'(but not insist because they can't as it's not deemed dangerous enough to be made law) because they sell more tyres when punters get fearful.
colinm
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I should also note that as I posted earlier, I found very little difference in grip from crossclimates and summer tyres, but in snow there is a huge difference, and for those who think 'well I don't use the van in the middle of winter' we have driven back along A30 at Easter in the snow.
mark61
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I keep all tyres the same and renew all 4 whenever one of them is at around 60/70% wear at a guess. Most of my old tyres from last 2 vans have been given or sold to mates with Land Rovers, and they probably get another 20000+ miles out of them. Up to them, I don't want them on my van any longer.
That's my choice, if I'm driving a mates car, as long as tyres are legal, I couldn't care less what mixture of tyres are on it. But then I won't be driving a mates car to Nordkapp in the winter.
Unfortunately don't look like I'll be taking my van there anytime soon either.
That's my choice, if I'm driving a mates car, as long as tyres are legal, I couldn't care less what mixture of tyres are on it. But then I won't be driving a mates car to Nordkapp in the winter.
Unfortunately don't look like I'll be taking my van there anytime soon either.