Tyres

[caledonia]

Traditionally winter tyres had a softer compound than summer tyres and were thought to have a shorter lifespan with regard to rate of tread wear.
Has anyone had experience of the longevity of Michelin cross climate tyres on their car.
I would also be interested in hearing the experience regarding handling from anyone who has fitted only two. Michelin recommend all four be replaced at once but I have two Aglis dated 2019 with plenty of tread, so am loath to dump them and shoulder the cost of four expensive 225/75 R16 in one go.
My feeling is that since the van rarely travels at more than 50mph and usually much slower, handling issues are likely to be minimal. I reckon Michelin are just covering their ass rather like the 80psi on rear camping tyre advice. I cannot imagine there is any more difference in handling than a vehicle which has 2mm tread on one axle and a newer 5mm tread on the other axle. I should add that I don’t envisage driving in winter snow conditions in my van, simply that cross climate are now the only camping tyre that Michelin supply.

Davy

If you’ve got 2mm tread on one axle get them changed asap. •4 of a mm of the legal limit we call that a baw hair up here.

 

[TeamRienza]

If you’ve got 2mm tread on one axle get them changed asap. •4 of a mm of the legal limit we call that a baw hair up here.

That’s why I am asking. The car is about due for service and I want to change the fronts before proper winter. The Motorhome still has about 4 mm on the rear but they are 2014 so want to replace them early in the new year as part of the annual service.

Davy

 

[colinm]

My experience as posted on another thread, DO NOT FIT TO ONLY ONE AXLE, you will probably be ok in summer, but in slippery conditions the imbalance in grip makes it very difficult to drive.
Had them on one of my Suzi's for several years, not sure on the actual mileage covered, but they seem to be lasting as long as any other tyre I've had.
p.s. just read your latest post, fitting them to front alone will be very dangerous, first time you brake in snow or ice and you be spun around.

 

[caledonia]

Just had 4 new winters tyres fitted today. Kormoran 235 50 18. The car drives just the same apart from getting better mpg. It was Pirelli’s that came off the vehicle.

 

[caledonia]

My experience as posted on another thread, DO NOT FIT TO ONLY ONE AXLE, you will probably be ok in summer, but in slippery conditions the imbalance in grip makes it very difficult to drive.
Had them on one of my Suzi's for several years, not sure on the actual mileage covered, but they seem to be lasting as long as any other tyre I've had.
p.s. just read your latest post, fitting them to front alone will be very dangerous, first time you brake in snow or ice and you be spun around.

Braking in snow and ice is bad idea. I’ve been a mechanic for over 35 years and having tyres of different brands on different axles will not spin you round under braking. Scare mongering to get you to part with your cash. If it was as dangerous as you make out in your post I would have been dead long ago.

 

[Wooie1958]

Braking in snow and ice is bad idea. I’ve been a mechanic for over 35 years and having tyres of different brands on different axles will not spin you round under braking. Scare mongering to get you to part with your cash.

Agreed however, i do insist on like for like including the brand on the same axle

As it happens i have the same tyres all round because i have found a brand and model i like so they get replaced in pairs after 5 years, i also insist on the DOT being put on the outisde so it`s easier to read.

 

[colinm]

Braking in snow and ice is bad idea. I’ve been a mechanic for over 35 years and having tyres of different brands on different axles will not spin you round under braking. Scare mongering to get you to part with your cash. If it was as dangerous as you make out in your post I would have been dead long ago.

I am not talking difference between different makes, I am talking difference between summer tyres and Michelin CrossClimate.
p.s. the same would apply to using winter tyres on one axle, and summer on other, or winter tyres on one axle and CrossClimates on other, the grip levels in different conditions can be huge.

 

[caledonia]

We are not talking difference between different makes, we are talking difference between summer tyres and Michelin CrossClimate.

Tread pattern and slightly different compound ain’t going to make it difficult to drive or spin on snow or ice. Believe who ever you want I’m not selling tyres just offering free advice.

 

[caledonia]

I am not talking difference between different makes, I am talking difference between summer tyres and Michelin CrossClimate.
p.s. the same would apply to using winter tyres on one axle, and summer on other, or winter tyres on one axle and CrossClimates on other, the grip levels in different conditions can be huge.

Lots of people stick 2 winter tyres on the drive axle for the winter coming in up here. That’s where the grip matters. Have you ever driven in snow and ice? If it’s your non drive axle your worrying about your doing it wrong?

 

[colinm]

Tread pattern and slightly different compound ain’t going to make it difficult to drive or spin on snow or ice. Believe who ever you want I’m not selling tyres just offering free advice.

I don't need to 'believe who ever you want' I have first hand experience of driving with CrossClimates on one axle and summer tyres on other in snow and ice, I would have rather have had summer tyres all round.

 

[Wooie1958]

Lots of people stick 2 winter tyres on the drive axle for the winter coming in up here. That’s where the grip matters. Have you ever driven in snow and ice? If it’s your non drive axle your worrying about your doing it wrong?

You see that all the time in France especially down in the Pyrenees where we spend the majority of our time over there.

 

[mark61]

Get the best of both worlds and put one winter tyre up front, one on the back.
You can choose which side

 

[Bigshug]

Whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive also makes a difference to the behaviour of the vehicle in poor grip. With rear wheel drive it is, in my opinion, more important to have good tyres all round. With front wheel drive, again in my opinion, the front wheels are driving the vehicle and steering it, so I have commonly put M&S tyres on the front only.
I do not claim to be an expert, but I am still alive after more than 50 years of driving in scottish winters when they were real winters, not the slushy mess we get nowadays

 

[barge1914]

But if driving in Alps or Pyrenees or other areas where winter tyres are compulsory better check detailed winter tyres legislation. I suspect winter tyres on one axle may not be legal as braking is as important as traction.

 

[caledonia]

But if driving in Alps or Pyrenees or other areas where winter tyres are compulsory better check detailed winter tyres legislation. I suspect winter tyres on one axle may not be legal as braking is as important as traction.

When driving in the Alps in winter is it compulsory to have chains for both axles or drive axle only?

 

[colinm]

Now I'm sure some will say, well he can't drive properly, or maybe he's spinning out on purpose, but note at 3mins in when you just lift off.

 

[barge1914]

When driving in the Alps in winter is it compulsory to have chains for both axles or drive axle only?

Chains on one axle is ok legally, but with 4x4 and rear wheel drive there are benefits in chains on two axles.

 

[Wooie1958]

Get the best of both worlds and put one winter tyre up front, one on the back.
You can choose which side

I would put them on diagonally then you have everything covered, front back left and right

 

[mark61]

I think the video shows fairly well what could happen, but I also think, in those conditions, you could easily replicate that with All season tyres fitted all round.

As to where you put your winter tyres if only fitting on one axle, I don’t think its as black as white as always on rear or always on front or always on drive axle. If you ain’t going anywhere without the extra traction on the drive axle, well that’s where they need to go, obviously, beyond that there’s loads of other things to consider.

Anyway, winter tyres are always a compromise between many factors and if only fitting on one axle, you have more compromises to take into account. I doubt you’ll find anyone in Nordic countries with winter tyres on one axle, I doubt they’d even mix Nordic style winter tyres with Euro style winter tyres or studded with non studded. Theres a reason Nokian do about 8 different winter tyres.

 

[colinm]

I think the video shows fairly well what could happen, but I also think, in those conditions, you could easily replicate that with All season tyres fitted all round.

As to where you put your winter tyres if only fitting on one axle, I don’t think its as black as white as always on rear or always on front or always on drive axle. If you ain’t going anywhere without the extra traction on the drive axle, well that’s where they need to go, obviously, beyond that there’s loads of other things to consider.

As I posted on another thread, my experience on the same 4x4 vehicle in mud ice and snow, is with summer tyres, CrossClimates on one axle, CrossClimates on both axles.
It came with Conti summer tyres all round, was just about adequate for my needs in mud (it's no mud plugger), in ice and snow it was sort of ok for traction and engine braking, cornering was similar to any 2wd.
Late spring one year I had CrossClimates fitted to the rear which replaced two of the worn out summer tyres, and the two summer tyres which had plenty of tread fitted to front, my thinking was I would replace the summer tyres the next winter after getting some more mileage out of them, note in 2wd it only drives front wheels which wear out faster. I did notice that in wet muddy conditions with 4wd selected the fronts would loose grip much earlier than rears, in fact I'm not sure the rears ever did loose grip.
Well late autumn we had an early fall of snow, the car was a real handful to drive, the rears just gripped the road, be that drive, braking or cornering, but the fronts where understeering much worse than when driving on summer tyres all-round, the next day I was straight on the phone ordering another pair of tyres. Since then I've driven on ice (and some snow) with 4 CrossClimates and been very pleased with them, but I'll not ever try with them one one axle again, I'd rather use summer tyres on ice and have 4 wheel drift which is easy to control.
CrossClimates on a FWD vehicle might be a bit better, but that video would indicate not, and the back end coming around doesn't surprise me at all. BTW if you watch his other videos you will see him driving with AllSeason and Winter tyres on both axles and not spinning out anywhere near as badly.