The demise of the petrol station.

An interesting article from a journalist with lots of ‘facts‘ from a man who sells electric charging points.
 
GeoffL said:
I'm not too sure. After all, they've signed off on vehicles that can spontaneously burst into flames minutes, hours or even days after a slight mishap and might even explode. Vehicles that require special, often vehicle-specific procedures to fight those fires as they can explosively release corrosive compounds and hydrogen if sprayed with water. Vehicles that remain potentially liable to spontaneous combustion until all the energy is drained; an operation that, unlike draining a petrol tank, might not even be possible.
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New carbon batteries dont burst into flames or burn.
 
trevskoda said:
New carbon batteries are on there way, your idea is a bit like saying in 1920 we cannot get more power out of a piston engine, move forward and 500hp from a f one small race car engine.
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After 100 years I would have expected a piston engine to have moved on ,but it still goes ,suck , bang ,blow , spin , just like the first one , but a lot better,
 
Just think Britain currently only produces 5% more electricity then we use and if everyone in the country put the kettle on at the same time they have a problem just think when they have tens of thousands of these super fast charging points throughout the country and everyone is charging their cars at the same time and if I am not mistaken the new chargers starting output is 250KW compared to the old kettle which is usually 2KW just think what will happen to the grid.
 
myvanwy said:
I think your mistaken. 250kw??? Thats a 1000 amps.
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It's only 1000A at 250V. These chargers are high-voltage DC and, although the current is 'high' it's less than 1000A. Tesla Superchargers can currently deliver 120kW each and the Tesla Semi has eight ports for simultaneous use to charge the truck's 4 battery packs at a combined rate of 1.6MW!

The next generation of batteries (dual carbon?) promises ultra-fast charging and so 250kW might be the low end. If that seems more problematic than current EV charging, consider that there will be a lot of these things and each will require the same amount of energy no matter how quickly it's charged. Hence the overall charge that must be delivered to the fleet as a whole will be the same per day no matter what battery technology is in use. Thus the overall load on the grid will be the same at 250kW per vehicle as it would be if the entire fleet was being charged at 7kW per vehicle.

The problem, however, is two fold:
  1. The grid does not have sufficient reserve capacity to cope with conversion of the entire UK fleet to EVs. In another thread, I calculated the additional load to be ~ 35GW assuming that each car is charged once per week (without considering trucks and buses). To put this in perspective, the National Grid currently has a capacity of ~ 73GW.
  2. On a local basis, charge rate matters a lot more. While thousands of vehicles can average out, each substation serves at most a few hundred homes and hence the likelihood of an overload from too many vehicles simultaneously being put on charge is increased. Consider the following hypothetical case: a community of 200 households is served by a single substation. The majority work for the same employer, which shuts down at 5:00pm on Fridays. A quarter of the community leave the employer at 5:00 and arrive home within the same 15 minute window, get out of their cars and plug them into their chargers. So we have 50 cars simultaneously drawing (say) 120kW, or 60MW -- massively in excess of the capacity of a typical substation.
 
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GeoffL said:
It's only 1000A at 250V. These chargers are high-voltage DC and, although the current is 'high' it's less than 1000A. Tesla Superchargers can currently deliver 120kW each and the Tesla Semi has eight ports for simultaneous use to charge the truck's 4 battery packs at a combined rate of 1.6MW!

The next generation of batteries (dual carbon?) promises ultra-fast charging and so 250kW might be the low end. If that seems more problematic than current EV charging, consider that there will be a lot of these things and each will require the same amount of energy no matter how quickly it's charged. Hence the overall charge that must be delivered to the fleet as a whole will be the same per day no matter what battery technology is in use. Thus the overall load on the grid will be the same at 250kW per vehicle as it would be if the entire fleet was being charged at 7kW per vehicle.

The problem, however, is two fold:
  1. The grid does not have sufficient reserve capacity to cope with conversion of the entire UK fleet to EVs. In another thread, I calculated the additional load to be ~ 35GW assuming that each car is charged once per week (without considering trucks and buses). To put this in perspective, the National Grid currently has a capacity of ~ 73GW.
  2. On a local basis, charge rate matters a lot more. While thousands of vehicles can average out, each substation serves at most a few hundred homes and hence the likelihood of an overload from too many vehicles simultaneously being put on charge is increased. Consider the following hypothetical case: a community of 200 households is served by a single substation. The majority work for the same employer, which shuts down at 5:00pm on Fridays. A quarter of the community leave the employer at 5:00 and arrive home within the same 15 minute window, get out of their cars and plug them into their chargers. So we have 50 cars simultaneously drawing (say) 120kW, or 60MW -- massively in excess of the capacity of a typical substation.
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I agree with Geoff. :unsure:
 
GeoffL said:
It's only 1000A at 250V. These chargers are high-voltage DC and, although the current is 'high' it's less than 1000A. Tesla Superchargers can currently deliver 120kW each and the Tesla Semi has eight ports for simultaneous use to charge the truck's 4 battery packs at a combined rate of 1.6MW!

The next generation of batteries (dual carbon?) promises ultra-fast charging and so 250kW might be the low end. If that seems more problematic than current EV charging, consider that there will be a lot of these things and each will require the same amount of energy no matter how quickly it's charged. Hence the overall charge that must be delivered to the fleet as a whole will be the same per day no matter what battery technology is in use. Thus the overall load on the grid will be the same at 250kW per vehicle as it would be if the entire fleet was being charged at 7kW per vehicle.

The problem, however, is two fold:
  1. The grid does not have sufficient reserve capacity to cope with conversion of the entire UK fleet to EVs. In another thread, I calculated the additional load to be ~ 35GW assuming that each car is charged once per week (without considering trucks and buses). To put this in perspective, the National Grid currently has a capacity of ~ 73GW.
  2. On a local basis, charge rate matters a lot more. While thousands of vehicles can average out, each substation serves at most a few hundred homes and hence the likelihood of an overload from too many vehicles simultaneously being put on charge is increased. Consider the following hypothetical case: a community of 200 households is served by a single substation. The majority work for the same employer, which shuts down at 5:00pm on Fridays. A quarter of the community leave the employer at 5:00 and arrive home within the same 15 minute window, get out of their cars and plug them into their chargers. So we have 50 cars simultaneously drawing (say) 120kW, or 60MW -- massively in excess of the capacity of a typical substation.
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With new carbon batts which will run a car all week and maybe more, most will not run home and charge all on the same night, yes we will require much much more power cables to run cars and trucks, no idea where or how the gov is going to sort it all out.
 
Herman said:
We may be heading towards all electric at the moment but this could change fast, technology is evolving faster and faster. Just as we have all invested in electric cars they will perfect the hydrogen cell, and we will just need to fill up with water.
Or if your a fan of Back to the future a banana skin and a few other choice bits of garbage.
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in the 1950,s a man named powel made an engin to run on water,as i under stand it,he live in .WREXHAM or WRECSAM, in north wales, a fuel company
bought it out. but i am not sure. its a long time ago. ok.pj
 
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