STARTER BATTERY ALSO RUNNING MY 12V HABITATION EQUIPMENT?

[Mtbcol]

Afternoon all. Finally getting around to sorting out some better electrical equipment in our 2007 Ducato based Burstner Solano T 615. I've removed the lead acid battery and the EPEVER mppt controller which was also connected to the starter battery ( under the front passenger seat) but it seems at least the 12 volt lights in the hab unit still work so must be running off the starter battery. Checking with a meter indeed the starter battery voltage drops when I turn on the hab lights. Question is, will the 12 volt hab stuff just run off the leisure battery once I've connected it back up to the new victron mppt, or will it also drain the starter battery, as now the solar is not connected to it to trickle charge it?

Hope I've explained that ok?

Cheers

Colin.

 

[MERL]

That's not ideal and something I'd change if it was my van. Does your control panel have the option to run the hab area off of either the leisure OR starter battery with a changeover switch?

 

[RichardHelen262]

Your control panel should allow you to switch between vehicle battery and habitation battery,
It might be that now you have removed the hab battery that it has defaulted to the vehicle battery

 

[Mtbcol]

It's got a rocket switch to check leisure or starter battery but nothing I can see to permanently switch over

Your control panel should allow you to switch between vehicle battery and habitation battery,
It might be that now you have removed the hab battery that it has defaulted to the vehicle battery

Maybe as you say it's auto defaulted to the starter (vehicle) battery.... hopefully that's the case, and will resolve once I connect the L/B back up via the victron mppt

 

[Mtbcol]

That's not ideal and something I'd change if it was my van. Does your control panel have the option to run the hab area off of either the leisure OR starter battery with a changeover switch?

Yes, I agree. Done want that system.

 

[MERL]

I know all you've done is remove the LB but the electroinices wouldn't be able to distinguish that form a flat battery and I've never heard of control system defaulting to use the starter battery when the leisure battery is flat and frankly wouldn't want it to do that for fear of automatically flattening the starter battery too and leaving me stranded. That control panel is typically used with the EBL99 and that certainly doesn't work that way.
As you've removed a dual output solar charge controller and installed a single output Victron unit you'll no longer keep the starter battery topped up via solar, you'll need to install a battery maintainer for that function. Assuming you have the EBL99 you'll continue to receive the trickle charge to the starter battery whilst on EHU though.

 

[Mtbcol]

Thanks Merl. I'm not sure what's going on with it then. As you say, I definitely don't want the starter/ vehicle battery running the hab unit stuff. I'll check I've got the EBL 99 tomorrow. I'm not too worried about keeping the starter battery topped up with solar, as I've got a jump pack and an eco flow alternator charger so I can use my delta 2 to charge my starter battery if It goes flat. I just don't want to use the starter battery as the leisure battery when I've already got a leisure battery. It now makes me wonder what the leisure battery was powering as everything still works without it?

 

[MERL]

Thanks Merl. I'm not sure what's going on with it then. As you say, I definitely don't want the starter/ vehicle battery running the hab unit stuff. I'll check I've got the EBL 99 tomorrow. I'm not too worried about keeping the starter battery topped up with solar, as I've got a jump pack and an eco flow alternator charger so I can use my delta 2 to charge my starter battery if It goes flat. I just don't want to use the starter battery as the leisure battery when I've already got a leisure battery. It now makes me wonder what the leisure battery was powering as everything still works without it?

Ideally you'd want the starter battery fully topped up ALL of the time because letting a lead acid battery sit below fully charged leads to sulphation and early demise. Deep discharges also will massively affect it's life span so a battery maintainer at a few tens of pounds will quickly pay for it's self in replacement batteries.
If you post the particular elektroblock you have I can tell you where to look for the error, I guess someone has previously connected things up incorrectly.

 

[Mtbcol]

Thanks Merl I'll have a look under the passenger seat later today

 

[YeoBlade]

That EPEVER solar controller is a good piece of kit you'll be able to program that to optimise the best for the batteries you fit.

Some of the settings available

 

[Mtbcol]

Thanks yeoblade, but it's off the van now and I'll be selling it to recover some of the cost of the victron mppt I'm replacing it with

 

[Mtbcol]

Ideally you'd want the starter battery fully topped up ALL of the time because letting a lead acid battery sit below fully charged leads to sulphation and early demise. Deep discharges also will massively affect it's life span so a battery maintainer at a few tens of pounds will quickly pay for it's self in replacement batteries.
If you post the particular elektroblock you have I can tell you where to look for the error, I guess someone has previously connected things up incorrectly.

I wonder if this is something to do with the tracker that's fitted to our motorhome?

Also when we had out campervan I think I remember the VSR used to back feed the starter battery with solar when the leisures were full the VSR charge light would be on with engine off in full sun?

I think I'm going to have to get something like a Ablemail unit that Wildebus told me about ages ago.

 

[Mtbcol]

What I can't work out about the whole problem is...what was the leisure battery powering if it seems that the starter battery is running everything?! As I've said, leisure battery is now disconnected and everything still works.

 

[wildebus]

It's got a rocket switch to check leisure or starter battery but nothing I can see to permanently switch over

Maybe as you say it's auto defaulted to the starter (vehicle) battery.... hopefully that's the case, and will resolve once I connect the L/B back up via the victron mppt

I am not familiar with your control panel, but the switch in the photo looks more like a switch to select between waste and fresh water tanks for the gauge?

The way the EBL units work, there is no inherent way for them to run the habitation side off the starter battery. That is not to say an individual motorhome maker may have added that feature to their own implementation, but it is not something that is built into the EBL99 Electrobloc (unlike the British Sargent units, where the Sargent control panel always allows you to select between the two. Whether that is a good feature or not to have is another question).

Now to be able to choose between using the Starter and Leisure batteries to run all the habitation kit will require:
a) a switch to select, obviously
b) a relay to switch between the two sources. The potential current is too great for it to just run through a 2-way switch, so the switch will instead control a relay.
Now it could be the switch (a) is faulty and is stuck on "starter", or it could be that the relay (b) is stuck in whatever position is used for the starter battery to be used.
As said, this will not be within the EBL99 unless I am totally wrong about that aspect of its functionality.

It is possible also that the EBL is faulty and the internal switching that connects the starter to leisure battery (the internal split charge system) is stuck on or the D+ signal is falsely high creating the same situation.

I think some logical methodical troubleshooting is needed to work out what is what. Somthing that can certainly confuse the siuation is the wiring colours used by Schaudt on the EBL units and if the EBL got rewired incorrectly, that could also explain why the starter battery is being used for all the habitation electrics (although I would expect other effects would have been noticed!).
The standard EBL Wiring colours are RED for the Starter Battery, not the Leisure Battery. The Leisure Battery usefully uses BLACK as its +VE connection and the common ground/0V is BROWN. I guess it could be worth checking those - and bearing in mind a 2007 motorhome will have had changes and additions made in its life and you can bet there are Leisure Battery circuits that are Red for +ve and Black for -ve, as well as Black for +ve and Brown for -ve, so one to go careful with and test, note and label wires

 

[rugbyken]

i’ve seen several vans usually on a transit base where there is an auxiliary battery fitted alan old man down has this the auxiliary ran the lights etc while the leisure did the power source absolute nonsense system but made sense to someone somewhere at some time ‘

 

[marchie]

I am not familiar with your control panel, but the switch in the photo looks more like a switch to select between waste and fresh water tanks for the gauge?

The way the EBL units work, there is no inherent way for them to run the habitation side off the starter battery. That is not to say an individual motorhome maker may have added that feature to their own implementation, but it is not something that is built into the EBL99 Electrobloc (unlike the British Sargent units, where the Sargent control panel always allows you to select between the two. Whether that is a good feature or not to have is another question).

Now to be able to choose between using the Starter and Leisure batteries to run all the habitation kit will require:
a) a switch to select, obviously
b) a relay to switch between the two sources. The potential current is too great for it to just run through a 2-way switch, so the switch will instead control a relay.
Now it could be the switch (a) is faulty and is stuck on "starter", or it could be that the relay (b) is stuck in whatever position is used for the starter battery to be used.
As said, this will not be within the EBL99 unless I am totally wrong about that aspect of its functionality.

It is possible also that the EBL is faulty and the internal switching that connects the starter to leisure battery (the internal split charge system) is stuck on or the D+ signal is falsely high creating the same situation.

I think some logical methodical troubleshooting is needed to work out what is what. Somthing that can certainly confuse the siuation is the wiring colours used by Schaudt on the EBL units and if the EBL got rewired incorrectly, that could also explain why the starter battery is being used for all the habitation electrics (although I would expect other effects would have been noticed!).
The standard EBL Wiring colours are RED for the Starter Battery, not the Leisure Battery. The Leisure Battery usefully uses BLACK as its +VE connection and the common ground/0V is BROWN. I guess it could be worth checking those - and bearing in mind a 2007 motorhome will have had changes and additions made in its life and you can bet there are Leisure Battery circuits that are Red for +ve and Black for -ve, as well as Black for +ve and Brown for -ve, so one to go careful with and test, note and label wires

I have the LT96-2 Burstner Control Panel and the EBL99 Electrobloc which you have bypassed, David. For clarity, the LT96 Display will show the State of the Water Tanks [Fresh & Waste] if you press the Tank button [rh side]; but it will display the SOC of the Vehicle & Leisure Batterry respectively if you press the lh side of the Panel, with the vehicle outline is drawn.

The Burstner Owner Manual says; 'The transformer/rectifier charges the living area battery; the transformer/rectifier charges the starter battery with a float charge only. When the vehicle is turned off, the transformer/rectifier separates the starter battery electrically from the living area battery. This prevents the 12v living area appliances from discharging the starter battery' - this is a direct extract from the Burstner Owner Manual. As you know @wildebus, David, what I know about leccy + tuppence wouldn't buy me a penny bun, but I can read the text in the Manual! The relevant text is on Pages 122-123 under Sec 8.5 of the Manual

I carry the Manual with me on every trip and also have an electronic copy on my phone, so that any person working on the M/Home knows how stuff works, even if I don't!

Steve

 

[Nabsim]

The EBL in my van, (different van, different EBL) powers part of the 12V system from the starter battery until you turn the 12V on at the control panel. I have done away with some of this over the years but from memory the main 12V lounge light, step, patio light all worked from the starter battery. It isn't something like this you are experiencing is it?

A manual for the EBL should tell you

 

[MERL]

Also when we had out campervan I think I remember the VSR used to back feed the starter battery with solar when the leisures were full the VSR charge light would be on with engine off in full sun?

Yes, some VSRs do that, the Durite units do. I personally don't think it's the best way of going about the job, OK in the summer but in the winter the limited amount of sun means that often the starter battery doesn't receive anything at all whereas with a conventional battery maintainer it would.

 

[Mtbcol]

Well, first of all a big thank you to you all for your help with this. Secondly to say it seems like Carol ( my wife) is correct in calling me a k**b as she often does when I get something wrong. I suddenly had a thought, and sure enough with the leisure battery disconnected and the EHU DISCONNECTED, there is then no power to the habitation lights and 12 volt stuff. So the starter battery isn't feeding my hab stuff as I stupidly thought. I'm sorry I've wasted everyone's time. Please forgive an embarrassed old git

 

[Nabsim]

lol, were you running from the power supply on ehu?