Speeding , port talbot M4, 50mph

So they only catch the idiots who tax their cars and register them with the DVLA . What about all the others that just stick two fingers up at the cameras or the motorbikes that don't get caught because they don't have front number plates.

The one I liked the other week was the Irish guy that had put some black sticky tape on the number plate. He had changed the 02 plate into an 82 plate. Police pulled him over and he tried to say it was the kids. Then turns out the cars nicked and the original number plate belonged to another vehicle. So when he went through the cameras what do they do with the tickets. Know one ever tells us how many cars there are running around, bought from car auctions, untaxed and not insured or how many tickets are just written off as Not Known.

If they do catch these people the sentences given out by some of the judges are laughable. Ban him from driving again on top of the ban he already has that he didn't take a blind bit of notice of in the first place. Fine him £60 and give him another 3 points on his licence to add to the other 20 he already has.

..
 
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If I was a copper and could use sense and discretion would I have booked her? No.

Most traffic cops would concur.
Also, most cameras, most of the time are just cash cows which cause resentment from many responsible and safe drivers.
 
Came through there this am at 7:40. Massive queue Eastbound all the way back to Pontardawe/Swansea junction by 7:45am - Ive noticed this has got worse since these scameras were installed, and people started slowing as they didnt know they weren't 'live' till last week.

No shunts, just miles n miles of nose-to-tail traffic backing up as it all converges on Port Talbots so-called solution to aid traffic flow (and raise a sneaky load of dosh too eh?)

Making an even bigger bottleneck by making everyone stick rigidly to under 50mph seems to have just made everything worse than it was before (just a lot more lucrative)!

I bet the accident rate will now go UP on the approaches to this section as a result of this move (which will only give them fuel to say that even more scamera are needed in the name of 'Road Safety').

Motorists lives are being made a misery through being hounded, and any effects these things have on road safety seems to be negative, not positive.

It should be noted that in Swindon accidents decreased when they took the decision to switch their scamera's off. See Speed camera switch-off sees fewer accidents - Telegraph
 
Came through there this am at 7:40. Massive queue Eastbound all the way back to Pontardawe/Swansea junction by 7:45am - Ive noticed this has got worse since these scameras were installed, and people started slowing as they didnt know they weren't 'live' till last week.

No shunts, just miles n miles of nose-to-tail traffic backing up as it all converges on Port Talbots so-called solution to aid traffic flow (and raise a sneaky load of dosh too eh?)

Making an even bigger bottleneck by making everyone stick rigidly to under 50mph seems to have just made everything worse than it was before (just a lot more lucrative)!

I bet the accident rate will now go UP on the approaches to this section as a result of this move (which will only give them fuel to say that even more scamera are needed in the name of 'Road Safety').

Motorists lives are being made a misery through being hounded, and any effects these things have on road safety seems to be negative, not positive.

It should be noted that in Swindon accidents decreased when they took the decision to switch their scamera's off. See Speed camera switch-off sees fewer accidents - Telegraph

On the A27 north of Brighton near the Uni, the cameras were removed some years ago as they caused an increase in accidents by drivers braking abruptly when they saw the cameras.
 
it would be very easy to use both static and unmarked mobie cameras to virtually eliminate speeding on major roads, the capture rate could be such that nobody would break the limit.

if the aim is road safety why hasnt this been done?

the only answere i can see is that government wants the majority of drivers to exceede the limit so they can fine a small percentage.

catch too many, motorists will obey the limits resulting in a drop in the revenue from enforcement.
 
it would be very easy to use both static and unmarked mobie cameras to virtually eliminate speeding on major roads, the capture rate could be such that nobody would break the limit.

if the aim is road safety why hasnt this been done?

the only answere i can see is that government wants the majority of drivers to exceede the limit so they can fine a small percentage.

catch too many, motorists will obey the limits resulting in a drop in the revenue from enforcement.

TA DAAHH!!! WE HAVE A WINNER! CONGRATULATIONS RICC! HAVE A CIGAR!:bow::yeahthat::cool1::king:
 
SPEED doesn't kill, it's poor driving skills, not driving within the vehicle, road and weather conditions prevailing at the time, that is what causes the accidents leading to loss of life.

Exactly............Therefore SPEED KILLS!
 
If road safety is so important ,why are new motors not fitted with GPS dvices to control the speed of vehichle at all times
Many fleet operators already have this
It saves feul--accidents,wear and tear,etc---its good
 
If road safety is so important ,why are new motors not fitted with GPS dvices to control the speed of vehichle at all times
Many fleet operators already have this
It saves feul--accidents,wear and tear,etc---its good

Would probably cause more accidents than it would prevent.
 
Exactly............Therefore SPEED KILLS!

No. Way too simplistic. Its perfectly reasonable to state that going TOO SLOW KILLS just as much. Thats why they don't let mopeds, bicycles or pedestrians on Motorways, and why people who drive much slower than the main traffic flow cause crashes.

If speed (too fast or too slow) is deemed to have been a contributory factor in an incident - then that is just what it is - a factor, NOT the root cause.

A far bigger contributory factor in crashes is actually not paying enough attention to where you are going and what others are doing and the situation and environment. This often results in someone going too fast for the situation, resulting in a failure to stop (they may not have been speeding, but failed to recognise and anticipate a situation and therefore didn't slow or take other evasive or remedial action.

For FAR too many of the holier-than-thou "I never Speed" brigade, not speeding is actually causing them to smugly think that they are safe drivers. This leads to them having a false sense of security, little or no spatial awareness of what is happening around them, no forward planning, and a lack of focus on the job at hand.

I see so-called safe non-speeders drive on the inside lane of a motorway until they are right under the rear-end of a truck before it even occurs to them to think of checking a mirror and pulling out. Cue banging on the brakes unnecessarily or banging on an indicator and promptly throwing the car into the next lane without any allowance for the vehicles already using it.

I was stuck behind a long queue of cars on a 10-mile stretch of trunk road this am. Some elderly (but not that old, as he pulled into a garage near my work) held up everyone on a 50mph stretch doing 30mph the whole way. He was on and off the brakes where there was no need (he was crawling already), his actions were slow, his road positioning diabolical. Drivers were trying to make overtakes wherever opportunity presented to try and get away from this menace. If an accident had occurred (thankfully it didn't) have resulted the overtaking driver would be considered wholly at fault, when in reality it was this incompetent person driving way too slowly who would have been the root cause.

Where is the Scamera technology to weed out this particular 'accident waiting to happen" then? It's ok to wait until this bloke kills someone through incompetence before HIS licence gets examined, is it? Or is he a 'good driver' by your definition simply as he never speeds?

Put simply BAD DRIVING KILLS. Inappropriate Speed (which can mean fast or slow in the wrong place or conditions) is just one SYMPTOM of Bad Driving. It is not in and of itself a CAUSE.

To simplify it to being simply Speed does 2 things IMO: 1. It justifies the draconian tax-gathering using Motorists as a Cash-Cow, and worse 2. it implies excusing all the things that really get people killed as not relevant or worth paying attention to.

Sorry, but to just bleat 'Speed Kills' like a conditioned sheep irritates me. Its lazy and implies a total lack of independent thought and understanding, and dismisses all the really valid elements that actually cause crashes.
 
SO that would be the end of the car market - we might as well all be driving around in 1300cc cars limited to 70mph -this would not be possible. Furthermore, Top Gear would not be a good programme just showing fiestas and corsas being driven at 50mph would it!

We are slowly seeing the death of the sports motorcycle (admittedly not helped by the fact that they have SO much performance available that its simply not accessible to be exploited by an average owner even on a track) and so the Marketing and Development is swinging back towards all-rounders, with the focus of the 'Sell' on 'Lifestyle' rather than performance.

The average family car now has WAY more performance than the typical driver can actually exploit, and draconian OTT stealth-tax gathering is making even its relatively modest (in true performance terms) performance to be an irrelevance - even a handicap as they make the ever-slower road speeds forced on us seem almost stationary due to sound-proofing and refinement, which makes it way too easy to drift over the posted limit.

My old LDV Convoy has 75Hp with no turbo, and weighs as is about 2 tonnes. When it was new it'd have embarrassed me to drive it as it would have been in EVERYONE'S way through being too slow. Now it keeps up with traffic flow pretty well! ANY car, even one 40-years old would not be too outclassed on todays A roads (if the driver makes allowances for the cruder suspension and brakes).

The Govt encourages you to buy new refined cars that all make well over 100Hp (even the runabouts) and can easily top 100mph on the one hand, and then get to hammer the hell out of you if you then actually try and use more than one-third of the performance you paid for.
 
No. Way too simplistic. Its perfectly reasonable to state that going TOO SLOW KILLS just as much. Thats why they don't let mopeds, bicycles or pedestrians on Motorways, and why people who drive much slower than the main traffic flow cause crashes.

If speed (too fast or too slow) is deemed to have been a contributory factor in an incident - then that is just what it is - a factor, NOT the root cause.

A far bigger contributory factor in crashes is actually not paying enough attention to where you are going and what others are doing and the situation and environment. This often results in someone going too fast for the situation, resulting in a failure to stop (they may not have been speeding, but failed to recognise and anticipate a situation and therefore didn't slow or take other evasive or remedial action.

For FAR too many of the holier-than-thou "I never Speed" brigade, not speeding is actually causing them to smugly think that they are safe drivers. This leads to them having a false sense of security, little or no spatial awareness of what is happening around them, no forward planning, and a lack of focus on the job at hand.


I see so-called safe non-speeders drive on the inside lane of a motorway until they are right under the rear-end of a truck before it even occurs to them to think of checking a mirror and pulling out. Cue banging on the brakes unnecessarily or banging on an indicator and promptly throwing the car into the next lane without any allowance for the vehicles already using it.

I was stuck behind a long queue of cars on a 10-mile stretch of trunk road this am. Some elderly (but not that old, as he pulled into a garage near my work) held up everyone on a 50mph stretch doing 30mph the whole way. He was on and off the brakes where there was no need (he was crawling already), his actions were slow, his road positioning diabolical. Drivers were trying to make overtakes wherever opportunity presented to try and get away from this menace. If an accident had occurred (thankfully it didn't) have resulted the overtaking driver would be considered wholly at fault, when in reality it was this incompetent person driving way too slowly who would have been the root cause.

Where is the Scamera technology to weed out this particular 'accident waiting to happen" then? It's ok to wait until this bloke kills someone through incompetence before HIS licence gets examined, is it? Or is he a 'good driver' by your definition simply as he never speeds?

Put simply BAD DRIVING KILLS. Inappropriate Speed (which can mean fast or slow in the wrong place or conditions) is just one SYMPTOM of Bad Driving. It is not in and of itself a CAUSE.

To simplify it to being simply Speed does 2 things IMO: 1. It justifies the draconian tax-gathering using Motorists as a Cash-Cow, and worse 2. it implies excusing all the things that really get people killed as not relevant or worth paying attention to.

Sorry, but to just bleat 'Speed Kills' like a conditioned sheep irritates me. Its lazy and implies a total lack of independent thought and understanding, and dismisses all the really valid elements that actually cause crashes.

Very much in agreement, particulary of the two highlighted sentences.
 
The sort of response I'd expect from a self-opinionated bigot.

If everyone drove within their capabilities there would be no problem, probably wouldn't need speed limits.

But there are an unbelievable amount of cretins out there behind the wheel that we need lower speed controls, so when these morons crash (and crash they will), there will be less carnage,

40 years ago at the onset of the world-wide oil crisis, the US government was forced to do something to reduce the country's massive fuel consumption. one of the answers they came up with was to enforce a speed limit across the US of 55mph.

One of the by-products of this was The Transportation Research Board issued a special report pointing out that this reduction in maximum speed had, as a side effect, saved over 9,000 lives.

In 1985 when they relaxed the speed limit up to 65mph because of public opinion,the death toll went up by 30%!

My case rests!
 
the actual safe maximum speed for a given vehicle on a given stretch of road is variable, dependant on many factors that can and do vary from hour to hour. therefore its impossible to set fixed speed limits that bear any relation to actual safe speeds at any given moment.

when i started driving we had 30 limits in town and that was it, not even a blanket 70 limit, we all had to use our own judgement . we all knew that street lights meant 30 life was simple. no its virtually impossible not to break one of the illogical ever changing speed limits on a daily basis.

it also seems that current driving instruction sees speed limits as a target, rather than the arbitary safe speed plucked out of thin air by a council noddy that they actually are.
 
The sort of response I'd expect from a self-opinionated bigot.

If everyone drove within their capabilities there would be no problem, probably wouldn't need speed limits.

But there are an unbelievable amount of cretins out there behind the wheel that we need lower speed controls, so when these morons crash (and crash they will), there will be less carnage,

40 years ago at the onset of the world-wide oil crisis, the US government was forced to do something to reduce the country's massive fuel consumption. one of the answers they came up with was to enforce a speed limit across the US of 55mph.

One of the by-products of this was The Transportation Research Board issued a special report pointing out that this reduction in maximum speed had, as a side effect, saved over 9,000 lives.

In 1985 when they relaxed the speed limit up to 65mph because of public opinion,the death toll went up by 30%!

My case rests!

The vast majority DO drive within their capabilities (even if that means crawling about being a rolling road-block because your 'capabilities' are near off the bottom of the scale). The biggest issues when people have accidents can probably be distilled largely to 2 areas: those people are either

a) not paying enough attention, or
b)not knowing or grossly over-estimating just what their capability is

(you might add a third category for those who DO know they are crap and should pack it in, but don't due to the convenience and reliance on the car. I've seen many clearly super-nervous rolling heart-attacks-in-waiting and desperately infirm oldies creeping about hunched over the wheel, clearly scared half-to-death who run the gauntlet when they need to hang up the licence before they get hurt and hurt others. A few years back an 82-year old in my main town lost control of his clutch and steering through infirmity, shot across a busy street and crushed the leg of a youngster on the pavement - I believe they had to amputate. Would a Scamera have removed this chap from the road before he mutilated somebody? No.)

(a 4th category would be well titled "those with a ****, stroppy attitude". Its amazing how many people drive dangerously simply because they are quite frankly a total b*stard. Young women drivers these days are more likely to be horribly aggressive ****-attitude, up-yours drivers than young males in my experience btw. Beware! Whatever, if you're a psycho you should not hold a licence. What do Scamera's do about these then? Nothing)

Just like any activity, some people have a natural affinity and then there are those less capable on a sliding scale. However, invariably those at the lower end always assume that as their limit is X, then any more than X is dangerous lunacy and on the edge of loss of control. I'm **** at tennis, but that doesn't mean I want to limit every player to under-arm serves and lobbing the ball gently over the net, but every shite driver thinks everyone else must toddle about like they do.

YES - we DO have an unbelievable amount of awful drivers on our roads... so instead of just slowing them all down, they need to be weeded out and where possible educated and improved, and where necessary get their ticket pulled. Just sticking up Scamera's achieves nothing since the vast majority of people they catch aren't actually the worst drivers by a long stretch.

I understand that 'excessive speed as a contributory factor' in all accidents in the UK is actually a surprisingly small percentage of the total (although it is to be expected that where it is a factor you can expect bad injuries and fatalities to be more than average). Something like only 7% of all serious accidents happen on Motorways is a figure I recall - the fastest roads with the highest number of fast moving vehicles on them. As the speed RELATIVE to one another is small, and they are all heading in the same direction, Motorways are the safest places statistically to drive. It is only when some nugget goes way too fast in the wrong place (or indeed way too SLOW) that Speed becomes at all relevant.

The vast majority of accidents are in 30 & 40mph areas. Fact.

And people driving at high speed in such areas is restricted to Joyriders (who can taunt Scamera's all day) and the odd idiot. The rest fit into one of the above categories and are all BAD DRIVERS.

Beating a 'Speed Kills' drum is idiotic, unless you work for 'Brake' or one of the Road Safety Scamera partnerships which means youre protecting your income. You're not Richard Brunstrom are you? That man was certifiable (even his own thought so) and he was a raging apostle of the anti-speed crusade.

Whatever happened to common sense?

BTW. 'Saved 9,000 lives'. Tell me, just how many millions of motorists were there in the USA at the time? How many tens of millions of journeys did those motorists make? As a percentage that 'statistic' becomes a tiny speck. Not to mention that the standard of driving in the US makes us look like paragons of competence.
 
Agreed: bad drivers kill people, especially when they drive at speeds they can't handle. We used to see traffic police on all the roads: their job was to observe, catch and prosecute bad drivers. When did you last see one - except the one going at high speed to the crash that had just been caused by a bad driver?
Speeding needn't have to come into it at all. 'Driving at a speed, or in a manner, likely to cause danger to the public' was the Police weapon then, only used now when a person has been maimed or killed by a bad driver because there is no-one to witness it.
Scameras rule OK?
John
 

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