Spain campsite hook up reverse polarity

[trevskoda]

How? "UNLESS YOU STICK YOUR FINGERS IN WHERE THEY SHOULD NOT BE"

Metal frame can be live if unit at fault, even if switched off.

 

[Fisherman]

Metal frame can be live if unit at fault, even if switched off.

Wasting your time Trev.

 

[Fazerloz]

I do know what I am doing I did it for 35 years, so did Johnny Doyle he was an electrician as well as a football player, paranoia did not kill him, electricity did.

Unfortunately you committed the cardinal sin where electricity is concerned and didn't test first. Rightly or wrongly a lot of lighting circuits in particular use switched returns. Neither can you go on the colour of wires and make assumptions.

 

[shortcircuit]

I have the same feeling. With 35yrs experience you managed to get a good belt . Leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Fisherman]

Unfortunately you committed the cardinal sin where electricity is concerned and didn't test first. Rightly or wrongly a lot of lighting circuits in particular use switched returns. Neither can you go on the colour of wires and make assumptions.

You just committed a cardinal sin wiring a 500w light to a 6amp lighting circuit. It was a ring main and I had switched it off at the consumer unit. The whole ring main was thus wired wrongly. This came to light after the event.

 

[Fazerloz]

You just committed a cardinal sin wiring a 500w light to a 6amp lighting circuit. It was a ring main and I had switched it off at the consumer unit. The whole ring main was thus wired wrongly. This came to light after the event.

No you thought you had switched it off, You still didn't test.

 

[Fisherman]

I have the same feeling. With 35yrs experience you managed to get a good belt . Leaves a lot to be desired.

I don’t know a spark who has never been plated.

 

[Fisherman]

No you thought you had switched it off, You still didn't test.

The vast majority of sparks would have done what I did. That was the only time I ever saw a ring main wired the wrong way. Wiring reverse polarity is dangerous. If you don’t reckon so then so be it.

 

[Fazerloz]

The vast majority of sparks would have done what I did. That was the only time I ever saw a ring main wired the wrong way. Wiring reverse polarity is dangerous. If you don’t reckon so then so be it.

I never said it wasn't dangerous, stop making assumptions it's simply shocking.

 

[wildebus]

Reverse polarity kills people even electrical engineers, every year.
I was replacing a security light years ago that was wired wrongly. I was thrown off a ladder when I went to remove the wiring.
When you switch of an appliance with a single pole switch you have every right to expect you have switched the positive. There was a famous case years ago when a Celtic football player Johnny Doyle was killed due to reverse polarity whilst working on electrics in a metal trussed roof.

Johnny Doyle (Scottish footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I managed to shut down an entire Waitrose warehouse once when swapping a lightbulb
Lightbulb was the indicator bulb on a tape drive unit on a mainframe computer. Computer was American and had US wiring colours and whoever installed it had swapped 'hot' and neutral wires over and apparently never tested?
So switching the main computer power inlet off didn't isolate the live, and changing the indicator bulb (240V in those days) I must have managed to short to ground through myself.
Got a fair shock and the ELCB (as the 'RCD' was back then) shut everything down and it was the week before Christmas. I was as popular as a Russian in Poland.

Something I always do as a final cursory check when working on anything that has the potential () to have mains power, such as a metal frame or supports ... tap on it with the back of the hand before holding with the front. electricity makes the hand close and you can end up grabbing something that is live and you cannot let go!

PS. To those who might have said "well, you should have unplugged it", what you can and can't do depends on the equipment.
A REAL computer is often hardwired with the lead going into the switch in the cabinet (nothing to unplug) and the cable comes up through the floor, so cannot trace the lead, and you do make an assumption that something was wired up correctly before you tell the manager of a big warehouse you want to shut the building down before you change a bulb.

 

[Fisherman]

I never said it wasn't dangerous, stop making assumptions it's simply shocking.

You are assuming wrongly I said that, now that really is shocking

 

[Fisherman]

I managed to shut down an entire Waitrose warehouse once when swapping a lightbulb
Lightbulb was the indicator bulb on a tape drive unit on a mainframe computer. Computer was American and had US wiring colours and whoever installed it had swapped 'hot' and neutral wires over and apparently never tested?
So switching the main computer power inlet off didn't isolate the live, and changing the indicator bulb (240V in those days) I must have managed to short to ground through myself.
Got a fair shock and the ELCB (as the 'RCD' was back then) shut everything down and it was the week before Christmas. I was as popular as a Russian in Poland.

Something I always do as a final cursory check when working on anything that has the potential () to have mains power, such as a metal frame or supports ... tap on it with the back of the hand before holding with the front. electricity makes the hand close and you can end up grabbing something that is live and you cannot let go!

PS. To those who might have said "well, you should have unplugged it", what you can and can't do depends on the equipment.
A REAL computer is often hardwired with the lead going into the switch in the cabinet (nothing to unplug) and the cable comes up through the floor, so cannot trace the lead, and you do make an assumption that something was wired up correctly before you tell the manager of a big warehouse you want to shut the building down before you change a bulb.

David, the light was earthed.
It had been professionally installed by us a few years earlier but had developed a fault. It was connected to a bedroom socket via a 13a spur c/w 5a fuse. But after we had installed it the owner had been tampering with his consumer unit, and had accidentally connected the wires the wrong way round. If I suspected a DIY job I was more careful, but there was no reason why removing the fuse and switching the supply off the supply for me to think there was any problems. Removing the fuse should have sufficed in itself.
But I did way more stupid things in my time as did my engineer. But these events were very rare with years between each event. Show me a tradesman who states they have never erred, and I will show you a liar. Show me an individual who reckons tradesmen never err and I will show you an idiot.
When drilling through floors, walls and ceilings you can be unfortunate, even when taking care. And that’s were most of our problems stemmed from.

 

[merl]

So arguably it was the tampering homeowner that caused the issue along with your lack of adequate testing, ie complacency?
Not saying sparkies don't get complacent because we all know they do but ultimately if they get a belt/killed surely as the professional they should have had the situation covered?

 

[Fisherman]

So arguably it was the tampering homeowner that caused the issue along with your lack of adequate testing, ie complacency?
Not saying sparkies don't get complacent because we all know they do but ultimately if they get a belt/killed surely as the professional they should have had the situation covered?

Arguably nothing, it was him who caused the issue.
And I can still remember the look of guilt on his face.
and to be fair he admitted it was himself who had done it.
But this thread includes posts stating it’s ok to wire wrongly.
So long as the circuit is healthy.
Quoting paranoia.
This seems to have been overlooked.
Also replacing a light I had previously installed also led to what happened.
But in all my years I only once witnessed this from a consumer unit.

 

[wildebus]

So arguably it was the tampering homeowner that caused the issue along with your lack of adequate testing, ie complacency?
Not saying sparkies don't get complacent because we all know they do but ultimately if they get a belt/killed surely as the professional they should have had the situation covered?

If someone working on something (nice and ambiguous there) checked every single thing unrelated to their job but could be consequential to what they are about to do before they started, every piece of work would take so long and be so expensive nothing would get done.

Got a knocking from the engine so you go to the garage. Should the mechanic before he goes out on a quick test drive check all the wheels nuts are tight and the brake pads have enough meat on them?
Should someone going up on a roof to replace a tile first go in and check the roof trusses are ok? and check the walls that support them are good? and the mortar that is securing the bricks is not crumbling? and the foundations are secure? and and and.
In all work, reasonable assumptions are, and have to be, made.

 

[trevskoda]

Shocking thread it has turnrd out to be, but its ones ohms fault if you get a belt.

 

[Fisherman]

If someone working on something (nice and ambiguous there) checked every single thing unrelated to their job but could be consequential to what they are about to do before they started, every piece of work would take so long and be so expensive nothing would get done.

Got a knocking from the engine so you go to the garage. Should the mechanic before he goes out on a quick test drive check all the wheels nuts are tight and the brake pads have enough meat on them?
Should someone going up on a roof to replace a tile first go in and check the roof trusses are ok? and check the walls that support them are good? and the mortar that is securing the bricks is not crumbling? and the foundations are secure? and and and.
In all work, reasonable assumptions are, and have to be, made.

Common sense.
When installing systems I always checked the earth, even though our equipment did not normally require earthing. I remember a new house were the earth had not been connected and nothing in the house was earthed. These things can and will happen, and sadly they can lead to dangerous situations.

 

[Fisherman]

Shocking thread it has turnrd out to be, but its ones ohms fault if you get a belt.

You don’t know WATT you are talking about Trev

 

[merl]

I understand there's a limit to what can be realistically expected but in Fisherman's case the light he was working on was "definitely related to his job" and a greater level of care and safety should have been undertaken.
I'm not saying that the guy who tampered with the wiring was without any blame but knowing that doesn't really benefit fisherman's family when he's dead.
As I said sparks of often cut corners and make assumptions but checking for a' live neutral' in fishermam's case was dead easy (excuse the pun), he was complacent and skipped it at his own peril. He could/should have avoided the belt, it could have been fatal and I'm sure his bereaved family would get little satisfaction from knowing that he wasn't completely to blame. I'm sure they'd get considerable satisfaction from knowing he'd dodged a bullet when he spent a few seconds checking for an unexpected 'live neutral' .

 

[merl]

You don’t know WATT you are talking about Trev

Currently he does anyway