So the airbag warning light has appeared AGAIN on my Ducato.

[marchie]

The Fiat Ducato Owner's Manual [Post 2016 IIRC] contains a warning/instruction to turn the ignition on, and wait 5 seconds for the warning lights to extinguish before starting the engine. I the ECU is about to blow, the Airbag Red Warning Light will remain illuminated, so turn the ignition of and get an EHU charge into the Vehicle Battery ['VB'] before proceeding. I found out the hard way in November 2021 what happens if you don't follow this procedure, 6 days after having the VB changed because it was almost 5 years old. Unfortunately, the new VB was duff, and the garage refused to contribute to the repair bill. The total bill, including a new Yuasa VB and a Diagnostics Trace to find a parasitic drain that was taking current FROM the VB and passing it to the LB, ruining a 2nd replacement VB in the process, was £1335, including the AMT 12-2 Trickle Charger that David [Wildebus] recommends. Before the software update that permits a permanent trickle charge was available, David hard wired a switch to the outside of the Battery Box to allow me to leave the permanent trickle feed operating

Steve

 

[gasgas]

There's a very interesting article in the current MMM about these airbag warning lights. The author looks after a fleet of 200 Sevel vans - presumably not all by himself. MMM had asked readers to send in their experiences of these failures. The author goes into a lot of detail about the comparison between his experience of looking after a fleet of vans where there has hardly ever been any airbag problem, and the seemingly common failures on motorhomes. His best guess as to the reason is that in motorhomes when we are asleep we are issuing a lot of moisture from our breathing and this is the only thing he can think of as to the cause of the failures. I haven't got one so I don't know - are they encased in a waterproof container or just a plastic box with a lid? Anyway the article makes interesting reading.

 

[merl]

There's a very interesting article in the current MMM about these airbag warning lights. The author looks after a fleet of 200 Sevel vans - presumably not all by himself. MMM had asked readers to send in their experiences of these failures. The author goes into a lot of detail about the comparison between his experience of looking after a fleet of vans where there has hardly ever been any airbag problem, and the seemingly common failures on motorhomes. His best guess as to the reason is that in motorhomes when we are asleep we are issuing a lot of moisture from our breathing and this is the only thing he can think of as to the cause of the failures. I haven't got one so I don't know - are they encased in a waterproof container or just a plastic box with a lid? Anyway the article makes interesting reading.

Interesting Andrew but I can't see it being a humidity thing, as I posted earlier mine didn't have any faulty components and just needed reset or re programmed and I can't see how humidity would cause a chip to lose its programming.
It would be interesting to confirm with certainty IF the fleet guy has experienced less airbag issues on average than you typically find in the MH world but that would be almost impossible to ascertain because people tend to post only when they've had a problem which COULD make it appear that MHs have a greater occurrence.
I'm not a conspiracy type of person but the makers will know exactly what the issue is with these units so they are either A, choosing to supply/fit a product with known fault or worse still B, deliberately programming the units to fail. Either way it's a piss poor practice.

 

[marchie]

There's a very interesting article in the current MMM about these airbag warning lights. The author looks after a fleet of 200 Sevel vans - presumably not all by himself. MMM had asked readers to send in their experiences of these failures. The author goes into a lot of detail about the comparison between his experience of looking after a fleet of vans where there has hardly ever been any airbag problem, and the seemingly common failures on motorhomes. His best guess as to the reason is that in motorhomes when we are asleep we are issuing a lot of moisture from our breathing and this is the only thing he can think of as to the cause of the failures. I haven't got one so I don't know - are they encased in a waterproof container or just a plastic box with a lid? Anyway the article makes interesting reading.

We did 119 nights in the M/Home in 2024, over 60 of them in the depths of Winter, with 2 adult occupants, and the gas heating and fridge on lpg on constantly. Several nights without external screen cover resulted in suficient condensation to require a squeegee to clear the creen interior surface with the water caught on a new microfibre cloth each morning. No problems with the ECU since we had the AMT 12-2 Battery Trickle Charger installed, with the Lithium Battery feeding the Vehicle Battery for 9 seconds in every 10 seconds. I don't believe the theory that moisture causes the ECU Failure.

Steve

 

[TeamRienza]

My Fiat based Hymer had an airbag failure just after the warranty expired. I did 78 nights in year one and 102 in year 2. I do not recollect a specific cause. However, this was a known issue, commonly spoken about on forums. Fiat replaced and fitted the unit free of charge. The ease with which fiat approved my repair would seem to support the idea that this was a fairly common fault, i.e more widespread than the relatively small number of motorhomes that make up their production.

Whilst the fleet manager obviously has a very in depth knowledge of his fleet, I would have thought that his vans would be in very regular usage which would support his dampness theory, but would it not be the case that they would be less likely to suffer low battery voltages which is frequently bandied about as an issue with motorhomes. I say this from a standpoint of ignorance based on what I read. I use an external silver screen and virtually never have condensation occuring.

It is also postulated that the engine should not be started until the airbag light extinguishes during the self checking routine, a habit I religiously follow since becoming aware of the theory, although I cannot see commercial drivers adhering to such a practice which would seem to disprove such theory.

The only other difference between motorhomes and commercial vans is that vans don't usually have a swivel seat, again a theory postulated frequently on forums, the thinking being that wiring gets stressed or damaged in turning. Who knows, another one of lifes little mysteries.

Davy

 

[merl]

My Fiat based Hymer had an airbag failure just after the warranty expired. I did 78 nights in year one and 102 in year 2. I do not recollect a specific cause. However, this was a known issue, commonly spoken about on forums. Fiat replaced and fitted the unit free of charge. The ease with which fiat approved my repair would seem to support the idea that this was a fairly common fault, i.e more widespread than the relatively small number of motorhomes that make up their production.

Whilst the fleet manager obviously has a very in depth knowledge of his fleet, I would have thought that his vans would be in very regular usage which would support his dampness theory, but would it not be the case that they would be less likely to suffer low battery voltages which is frequently bandied about as an issue with motorhomes. I say this from a standpoint of ignorance based on what I read. I use an external silver screen and virtually never have condensation occuring.

It is also postulated that the engine should not be started until the airbag light extinguishes during the self checking routine, a habit I religiously follow since becoming aware of the theory, although I cannot see commercial drivers adhering to such a practice which would seem to disprove such theory.

The only other difference between motorhomes and commercial vans is that vans don't usually have a swivel seat, again a theory postulated frequently on forums, the thinking being that wiring gets stressed or damaged in turning. Who knows, another one of lifes little mysteries.

Davy

I think all of the theories be it swivel seats, damp, battery voltage, starting procedure don't hold up under scrutiny, after all the problem has existed for long enough for a cast iron reason to have been established by now but it hasn't. Also IF an electronic circuit suffered from either damp, low voltage or start procedure issues it would be a pretty easy fix with a redesigned modified unit, something that's not being done BECAUSE IT SUITS THEM TO CONTINUALLY SUPPLY AN IFERIOR PRODUCT SO THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THEM BREAKING DOWN. Sure some will get replaced FOC under warranty but the majority wont. Essentially it's built in failure no matter how it's dressed up.

 

[molly 2]

Question why are airbag ECU faults a massive problem in motorhomes , could it be high condensation levels in motorhomes caused by wet interior windscreens ,cooking showering high human occupancy , their is also problemthat flat engine battery after lay up kills ECU.

 

[JQB]

Ours (2013 model) started playing up about 4-5 years ago, tried all the usual stuff like checking the connectors and wiring under the seats to the 'someone's sitting in the seat' sensors to no avail. Removed the air bag module and sent it away for 'repair' at a cost of about £80 but I can't remember where exactly. Before posting it I opened it up to check to see if there was obviously something wrong with any of the components but everything looked fine, when it came back from being 'repaired' I opened it up again and checked the soldering on the PCB to see what components they'd replaced....... NOTHING . It seems it's more of a re-program rather than a repair.
I'm convinced some of these 'faults' are deliberately programmed in to go wrong after a set time

Tend to agree, odd how so many have the same faults ovet time seems they carry on mnfg the same old faulty widgets - good for the supply of parts and repairers.

 

[JQB]

I think all of the theories be it swivel seats, damp, battery voltage, starting procedure don't hold up under scrutiny, after all the problem has existed for long enough for a cast iron reason to have been established by now but it hasn't. Also IF an electronic circuit suffered from either damp, low voltage or start procedure issues it would be a pretty easy fix with a redesigned modified unit, something that's not being done BECAUSE IT SUITS THEM TO CONTINUALLY SUPPLY AN IFERIOR PRODUCT SO THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THEM BREAKING DOWN. Sure some will get replaced FOC under warranty but the majority wont. Essentially it's built in failure no matter how it's dressed up.

Got it in one - once again customer as victim

 

[marchie]

My Fiat based Hymer had an airbag failure just after the warranty expired. I did 78 nights in year one and 102 in year 2. I do not recollect a specific cause. However, this was a known issue, commonly spoken about on forums. Fiat replaced and fitted the unit free of charge. The ease with which fiat approved my repair would seem to support the idea that this was a fairly common fault, i.e more widespread than the relatively small number of motorhomes that make up their production.

Whilst the fleet manager obviously has a very in depth knowledge of his fleet, I would have thought that his vans would be in very regular usage which would support his dampness theory, but would it not be the case that they would be less likely to suffer low battery voltages which is frequently bandied about as an issue with motorhomes. I say this from a standpoint of ignorance based on what I read. I use an external silver screen and virtually never have condensation occuring.

It is also postulated that the engine should not be started until the airbag light extinguishes during the self checking routine, a habit I religiously follow since becoming aware of the theory, although I cannot see commercial drivers adhering to such a practice which would seem to disprove such theory.

The only other difference between motorhomes and commercial vans is that vans don't usually have a swivel seat, again a theory postulated frequently on forums, the thinking being that wiring gets stressed or damaged in turning. Who knows, another one of lifes little mysteries.

Davy

The 'don't start the engine until the warning lights are extinguished, especially the airbag' advice was circulated on a competitor Forum [and I found the advice AFTER the ECU failed ...], and the 'advice' became a stipulation in the next edition of the Owner's Manual, so becoming official Fiat Policy/Instructions. My ECU failure was caused by low voltage in a duff new Vehicle Battery, and the ECU acts as a big, and expensive fuse in these circumstances. Very poor design, but Fiat have had years to produce an alternative design, and chose not to do so; which was fine until COVID struck, and Fiat were soe 16,500 chassis' short of Customer Orders, and ECUs were as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth, being on Back Order for 3-6 months 'latest estimate, but no firm date'

Steve