Small Gas bottles

[maxi77]

I wonder how many of those who say Campingaz is too expensive have actually saved money by using a refillable tank. I suspect many users will have sold their vehicle before the break even point.

Using 907 bottles costs me about 25 - 30 pence per day. The last time I researched refillable tanks it was going to cost around £360 for the parts, plus fitting possibly, plus safety check, plus the gas itself. Then there's the fact that the tanks have a limited lifespan.

Obviously if you use a lot of gas you will recover the initial outlay quicker, but for modest users like myself Campingaz is far more convenient, and probably the cheapest option. It would take several months of continuous use for me to break even if I fitted a tank.

Another thing to consider is availability of refills. Campingaz is available throughout Europe, except Poland. Outside of Europe you can often find places which will refill empty bottles. If a refill is not available, a locally sourced bottle and regulator can be bought, and it is possible to use virtually any disposable butane or propane cartridge, with a suitable adaptor, in place of a Campingaz bottle.

Refilling external tanks might prove difficult outside of Europe; for example, the last time I checked there was just one place in Morocco which offers this service. Although not a major problem, you'll need various adaptors as different countries have different hose fittings.

Then there's the problem of continental LPG being a mixture of Propane and Butane (in the UK I've been assured it's Propane). If you fill up abroad then use the gas in the UK in cold weather, you could end up with just Butane in the tank, which will not evaporate.

I'll stick with Campingaz.

I have never heard of any one having any problems with continental LPG, even my German friends use it and they often have colder winters than us. As you say it depends on your usage but we are ahead after one year of ownership and when we changed vans this year the dealer changed over our bottles as part of the deal. My gas is about 30% of the price of calor so it may not take that long to cover the cost of camping gaz, but clearly that is your choice. I use one refillable and one calor which with adapters I can refill in some countries so about 90% of my gas is autogas which makes a big difference to my living costs. I wwould hate to be paying for camping gaz. Also with two dogs I will not be going to Morroco, the paper work is too much

 

[Tow Itch]

The frying pan toaster is a tip we picked up from WC. You are right it makes lovely toast. :tongue:

Is the toast done on a dry frying pan or is it fried bred. A link to the original thread or an explanation would be appreciated.

 

[Tezza33]

Is the toast done on a dry frying pan or is it fried bred. A link to the original thread or an explanation would be appreciated.

A dry frying pan is the way to toast, but if you want a toasted sandwich we put ham and cheese in between two slices of bread then butter the outside and put in the frying pan, turn over when one side is done, it is better than a sandwhich toaster

 

[bluejet]

Gas bottle storage

Whilst in Canada about 7 years ago we saw an old air cooled VW camper with a decent sized calor type bottle in a steel fabricated rack mounted high on the outside of the n/side rear corner. Looked very neat & practical,also pretty cool.
I suppose you can get away with that sort of look on an old vdub, not to everyone's taste.

 

[lebesset]

I have never heard of any one having any problems with continental LPG, even my German friends use it and they often have colder winters than us. As you say it depends on your usage but we are ahead after one year of ownership and when we changed vans this year the dealer changed over our bottles as part of the deal. My gas is about 30% of the price of calor so it may not take that long to cover the cost of camping gaz, but clearly that is your choice. I use one refillable and one calor which with adapters I can refill in some countries so about 90% of my gas is autogas which makes a big difference to my living costs. I wwould hate to be paying for camping gaz. Also with two dogs I will not be going to Morroco, the paper work is too much

lpg in europe is the same everywhere , and has been for years ; you get industrial grade propane [ mostly propane but with some pollutants ] just the same as if you buy a bottle of propane ; my brother who lives in belgium where they used to mix with butane assures me that it is now like everywhere else

the reason that some people got some problems in cold weather is that they didn't empty the bottle but just top up ; this way the pollutants which are heavier [ which is why they are know as heavy ends in the trade ] with a higher gassing temperature accumulate in the bottom so that the percentage of the bottle which contains propane keeps decreasing

for many years I ran lpg cars and soon learned to regularly run the tank completely out because the car ran very badly when I got to the bit at the bottom if I didn't

if you don't believe me just follow a lpg tanker and watch it fill a domestic propane tank and then the lpg tank on a forecourt...doesn't matter which country

 

[Tezza33]

My bulk tank has been on for 10yrs and I have never had a problem however cold it is but I do let it run out every so often, must put a gauge on

 

[lebesset]

the thing is when you change your bottles you will run it out empty first ...so exactly the same thing pertains if you use refillables and run them empty

the best grade of propane has to be 90% propane but more importantly not more than 5% polypropylene , which is probably what gums up regulators , and that should be sold as lpg so you don't get valves stuck up ; whether or not we get that I cannot say !

incidentally the other HC gases in propane are things like napthane, toluene, butane in small percentages

if I remember correctly there are 3 grades of propane traded worldwide for different uses

 

[Donk]

i live near Dover in Kent and my nearest supplier charges £29 for an exchange 907 bottle.

I have now got hold of adaptors to refill (decant) my 907 bottles from a bigger calor gas bottle, so would like to know what connections i need to fill a calorgas bottle at a filling station using their LPG pump. thereby saving even more.

 

[maxi77]

i live near Dover in Kent and my nearest supplier charges £29 for an exchange 907 bottle.

I have now got hold of adaptors to refill (decant) my 907 bottles from a bigger calor gas bottle, so would like to know what connections i need to fill a calorgas bottle at a filling station using their LPG pump. thereby saving even more.

Technically you are not allowed to at UK and many other countries filling stations, many companies will not even allow the refilling of proper refillable cylinders. You should only refill to 80% capacity to ensure liquid gas is not carried over into the regulator. At a filling station if you get away with refilling the gas is measured in liters so you need to know how many liters to put in

 

[Tbear]

i live near Dover in Kent and my nearest supplier charges £29 for an exchange 907 bottle.

I have now got hold of adaptors to refill (decant) my 907 bottles from a bigger calor gas bottle, so would like to know what connections i need to fill a calorgas bottle at a filling station using their LPG pump. thereby saving even more.

Have a look at LPG Autogas-ADAPTOR Bayonet ,- VALVE INSIDE for refill Camper- Gas Bottle in UK | eBay

Beware the P&P

Richard

 

[Steve121]

i live near Dover in Kent and my nearest supplier charges £29 for an exchange 907 bottle.

I have now got hold of adaptors to refill (decant) my 907 bottles from a bigger calor gas bottle, so would like to know what connections i need to fill a calorgas bottle at a filling station using their LPG pump. thereby saving even more.

I get charged £19 for a full 907, not an exchange/refill.

 

[Donk]

where is that... thats an insanely cheep price

 

[maxi77]

Have a look at LPG Autogas-ADAPTOR Bayonet ,- VALVE INSIDE for refill Camper- Gas Bottle in UK | eBay

Beware the P&P

Richard

That will only fit UK propane notcamping gaz which the OP is looking for

 

[Tezza33]

That will only fit UK propane notcamping gaz which the OP is looking for

You are right but other members asked for a link for one of these on this thread

 

[Tbear]

That will only fit UK propane notcamping gaz which the OP is looking for

I was answering the question

i need to fill a calorgas bottle at a filling station using their LPG pump. thereby saving even more.

Richard

 

[Steve121]

where is that... thats an insanely cheep price

Collection only from a dealer in Luton. However, last night I came across this ebay seller offering good deals on all sorts of refills. Collection only from Wakefield.

Alternatively, there's the distinctly dodgy DIY refill method.

 

[Donk]

I have seen on the LPG pumps that there is a minimum that you can pump, so a small cylinder would be no good.

My idea was to fill a 9kg propane cylinder then decant it into my 907's. (which i have done before with butane)

I am told that 1ltr of LPG is aprox 500gms and only to fill an empty cylinder (and only ever fill an EMPTY cylinder) to 80% capacity.

A 9kg bottle would hold 14.5 lts so at around 70p per ltr that would cost just over £10

 

[Tbear]

Collection only from a dealer in Luton. However, last night I came across this ebay seller offering good deals on all sorts of refills. Collection only from Wakefield.

Alternatively, there's the distinctly dodgy DIY refill method.

Looks less dodgy than pouring 80 litres of petrol into a tank on a garage forecourt with god knows who doing god knows what just behind you.

Richard

 

[frontslide]

Hi,
First post, and probably a daft one.. Apologies in advance if this has been discussed before and I failed to find the right posts in the archive....


I have a campervan- a Toyota Hiace conversion (Japanese import 4x4 long wheelbase, if anyone's interested!). It's a little bigger than a VW but still pretty compact. When I got it there was, oddly, no cooker installed, so I have put one in. Space is tight, as it's quite a small van, so I am using Campingaz bottles.

I don't have space for anything bigger- Unless I've missed something, the smallest Calor bottles are the 4.5/3.9Kg ones and they are a good deal bigger than the Campingaz 907. There doesn't seem to be anything except Campingaz between disposable 500g canisters of various types and the Calor range (except maybe a Coleman 1Kg propane bottle).

My current setup has a single 907 as the main supply. It's obviously not the cheapest way to buy gas but we only use it for cooking, so it's not a big problem.

However, my backup supply is a 901 cylinder, as I don't have space for a second 907... It's a very neat solution: compact, simple and the 901 also works nicely with a gas lamp that screws onto the small bottle on the rare occasions that we use one.

I'm not quite so relaxed about the price of 901 refills... at £16.20 for an exchange bottle containing 450g of gas, that's £36/Kg... which seems a tad excessive(!) makes the 907 refill at under £10/Kg look almost inexpensive, which is pretty impressive given that Calor 4.5Kg is about £3.60/Kg, I think...!

So, I'm thinking I have three (& 1/2) options here:

1) Live with it and minimise the use of the 901 bottle- very attractive in the short term!
2) Get an adapter to allow disposable 450g/500g canisters to feed the cooker instead- even at £7.50 each, the gas is £15/Kg, much cheaper than the 901
3) Get some fittings and refill the 901 myself
3a) Somehow make space for a second 907

Can anyone advise if option-2 has any "Gotcha"s that might not be obvious, please? I'm wondering if the gas flow from a disposable canister is limited, for example, so that the Lindar valve can't pass the 350g/h needed to run my cooker (or 420g/h, if I do upgrade to one with better burners!).

Option-3 seems quite attractive- but a bit of a faff and the payback might take a while, given we don't use much gasfrom the primary, let alone the backup.

3a seems like it ought to be the right way to go but I just can't see how at the moment... Even if I could find the space, I think using it for a spare bottle might not be the best option overall, as there are other things we could do with it!

Have I missed something? Maybe there's a better way to do this? I notice that multipacks of small "aerosol can" butane catridges work out around £10/Kg. I could replace the double-burner stove with a couple of portable gas rings but would then lose the (pretty poor, TBH) grill... Is there another source of gas in small bottles? Diesel?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers,
W.

I have same van but a little bit smaller as not long wheel base i use a Calor 4.5 bottle and also carry a spare.
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/show-us-your-van-motorhome/22866-hiace-reimo.html

 

[WGWarburton]

I have same van but a little bit smaller as not long wheel base i use a Calor 4.5 bottle and also carry a spare.
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/show-us-your-van-motorhome/22866-hiace-reimo.html

Hi Frontslide,
I'd be interested to know where you carry them but the issue for me is that the layout of my van doesn't have a suitable space available.

It's an unusual (Japanese- Noppo) conversion which did not come with cooking facilities or any obvious place to install them. I have installed a folding dual-burner+grill stove onto a folding shelf, so the cooker unit folds up neatly out of the way, and have adapted a cupboard space for the Campingaz bottles that I am using at the moment (1x907+1x901). The extra couple of inches diameter of the Calor bottle would encroach significantly on the remaining cupboard space, which I am using for pans and so on. There's enough height to put in a small Calor bottle but there isn't enough depth to get two of them in there (or even two 907s, for that matter- the side-by-side 907+901 combination (203mm+110mm+fiddles) is pretty tight as it is!
There's an underseat storage area that could be freed up, but it's not high enough for a Calor bottle, would be much harder to vent effectively, would need a longer run of gas pipe through bulkheads and is located next to a cabin heater (warmed by the engine) and under the bed so I am reluctant to use it...

My current thinking is that I may be able to use a bit of space above my current 907 bottle. It isn't big enough to store a second 907 but I think I can put in a shelf to hold a 904(!). That would be significantly cheaper than using 901s as backups (£13.50/Kg for a 904 cf. £36/Kg in a 901. 907 is about £10/Kg, significantly more than Calor but comparable with small disposables).

Thanks to all for the excellent information that's been submitted to this thread. It's been very useful to me and helped me to understand my options and the pros and cons of the various alternatives.

Cheers,
W.