Small Gas bottles

WGWarburton

Guest
Hi,
First post, and probably a daft one.. Apologies in advance if this has been discussed before and I failed to find the right posts in the archive....


I have a campervan- a Toyota Hiace conversion (Japanese import 4x4 long wheelbase, if anyone's interested!). It's a little bigger than a VW but still pretty compact. When I got it there was, oddly, no cooker installed, so I have put one in. Space is tight, as it's quite a small van, so I am using Campingaz bottles.

I don't have space for anything bigger- Unless I've missed something, the smallest Calor bottles are the 4.5/3.9Kg ones and they are a good deal bigger than the Campingaz 907. There doesn't seem to be anything except Campingaz between disposable 500g canisters of various types and the Calor range (except maybe a Coleman 1Kg propane bottle).

My current setup has a single 907 as the main supply. It's obviously not the cheapest way to buy gas but we only use it for cooking, so it's not a big problem.

However, my backup supply is a 901 cylinder, as I don't have space for a second 907... It's a very neat solution: compact, simple and the 901 also works nicely with a gas lamp that screws onto the small bottle on the rare occasions that we use one.

I'm not quite so relaxed about the price of 901 refills... at £16.20 for an exchange bottle containing 450g of gas, that's £36/Kg... which seems a tad excessive(!) makes the 907 refill at under £10/Kg look almost inexpensive, which is pretty impressive given that Calor 4.5Kg is about £3.60/Kg, I think...!

So, I'm thinking I have three (& 1/2) options here:

1) Live with it and minimise the use of the 901 bottle- very attractive in the short term!
2) Get an adapter to allow disposable 450g/500g canisters to feed the cooker instead- even at £7.50 each, the gas is £15/Kg, much cheaper than the 901
3) Get some fittings and refill the 901 myself
3a) Somehow make space for a second 907

Can anyone advise if option-2 has any "Gotcha"s that might not be obvious, please? I'm wondering if the gas flow from a disposable canister is limited, for example, so that the Lindar valve can't pass the 350g/h needed to run my cooker (or 420g/h, if I do upgrade to one with better burners!).

Option-3 seems quite attractive- but a bit of a faff and the payback might take a while, given we don't use much gasfrom the primary, let alone the backup.

3a seems like it ought to be the right way to go but I just can't see how at the moment... Even if I could find the space, I think using it for a spare bottle might not be the best option overall, as there are other things we could do with it!

Have I missed something? Maybe there's a better way to do this? I notice that multipacks of small "aerosol can" butane catridges work out around £10/Kg. I could replace the double-burner stove with a couple of portable gas rings but would then lose the (pretty poor, TBH) grill... Is there another source of gas in small bottles? Diesel?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers,
W.
 
i would find room for a calor bottle,camping gaz is madly expensive. even if it means cutting a hole in the floor to take it,or putting a box on the back door
 
when ihad first van it had 907 gaz bottle made room for 6kg calor by moving around some of the cupboard shelving and making a deep cupboard to take a 6kg calor ok it cut down cupbard space but just meant took less clothes with me and less tinned stuff just meant ihad to wash some stuff by hand and shop a little

if you are planning on keeping the van for soiome time then fit a round refillable tank in the spare wheel carrier and bolt the wheel on the fron more often
 
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We're short on space as well, so we're using Campingaz 907s but were planning on fitting an external refillable tank. However, we've just returned from a 3 week European trip during which we used slightly less than one Campingaz 907 bottle (we only use gas for the cooker; we have diesel fuelled heating and no oven). So, due to the ridiculous expense of fitting an external tank and our low gas consumption, we'll continue with Campingaz 907, which costs me £20 including the bottle.
 
Don't use camping gaz, preferably - very expensive! Get a calor bottle and refill it at the LPG autogas pumps using an adaptor. It only costs £9 to refill a 6kg bottle rather than get ripped off £20-25 for exchange. Fill a 6kg bottle (from empty) with 11-12 litres only. LPG (same thing as Calor) is better in cold weather too.
 
Agree Origos are very good but last time I looked a bit pricey. The other concern for some is the smell of burning meths which some people cannot stand, though I have heard from devotees in the yachty fraternity that froggy cooking alcohol is smell free.
 
Firefox said:
Don't use camping gaz, preferably - very expensive! Get a calor bottle and refill it at the LPG autogas pumps using an adaptor. It only costs £9 to refill a 6kg bottle rather than get ripped off £20-25 for exchange. Fill a 6kg bottle (from empty) with 11-12 litres only. LPG (same thing as Calor) is better in cold weather too.
Click to expand...

I pay £19.00 for a full Campingaz 907, which means I can sell the bottle when empty and recover at least £5, usually more. To fit an external tank, with all the fittings, costs £hundreds, so I can't imagine how many years it would take me to recover the cost.

The butane v calor in cold weather doesn't apply to me as the bottle is kept in the relative warmth of the vehicle interior, and if necessary I can use a Coleman propane cylinder (I bought 12 for £20) for which I have made an adaptor.
 
maxi77 said:
Agree Origos are very good but last time I looked a bit pricey. The other concern for some is the smell of burning meths which some people cannot stand, though I have heard from devotees in the yachty fraternity that froggy cooking alcohol is smell free.
Click to expand...

That's a very good price for that stove and neat spirit does not smell like cheap meths. Never used an Origo myself so cannot recommend them personally but if I needed a double burner I would definitely think about one at that price.

Richard
 
Hi,
Thanks very much for the replies so far. Very impressed by how helpful people on here are being!

I appreciate that Campingaz isn't a cheap system, but it is a compact one. I am prepared to live with the cost of the 907 refills to get the space-saving, as I don't have room for even one Calor Bottle, let alone a working+spare combination. Calor really isn't an option and while I can see the benefit of an external-refillable tank I don't think the cost and complexity is warranted by our usage!

As Steve121 says- the 907 is big enough for light, cooking usage. Maybe I should be looking harder at my Option-3a and trying to find room for a second 907, as it's the eye-watering price of a 901 refill that I have an issue with!! It's a great pity, as it's a very handy size, light, stronger than a disposable can (and re-useable, obviously), with a connector that's properly designed for regular disconnection, unlike the EN417 screwfits, which seem, well, under-engineered...
Steve- can you share your source for £20 907s?

I like the Alcohol stove idea and would seriously consider it but for two factors- 1) I need the stove to fold up vertical to save space when not in use and 2) they don't seem to have a model that has a grill of any sort, and we'd be reluctant to give that up completely. I'm very grateful for the information, though, as I've only heard rumours of these previously, without knowing what to look for, and will very likely consider one seriously for marine use in future!!

Thanks again for the replies so far... I do get the point about how much better value bigger bottles are. I just don't have room or really need the extra capacity. Hence the quest for more sensibly priced Small Bottles. If I can't make room for a second 907, maybe an EN417 regulator and 500g disposables is the way to go... They seem to be available for £7.50 or less, which is under half the cost of a 450g 901 refill and would pay for the regulator in only two uses...

I'm disappointed that there doesn't seem to be an alternative "compact" solution. I guess most of the the market is for bulk (Calor in Motorhomes, gardens, caravans, boats) or very lightweight+compact backpacking; so, in effect, CampinGaz are already an expensive niche product!!!

Cheers,
W.
 
That price in Amazon is very low perhaps for once Dometic has lowered the price of products it has taken over. The smell is a personal thing, even when I had a sense of smell it didn't bother me but Mrs Maxi cannot stand it as it makes her feel sick. I have also heard of others making the same complaint so I think people should try before they commit
 
Something I've often wondered about the alcohol stoves, never having had one and it's probably a stupid question - but do you have to empty the left over alcohol back into the bottle for travelling, or is it sealed in the stove somehow? :confused:
 
Firefox said:
Don't use camping gaz, preferably - very expensive! Get a calor bottle and refill it at the LPG autogas pumps using an adaptor. It only costs £9 to refill a 6kg bottle rather than get ripped off £20-25 for exchange. Fill a 6kg bottle (from empty) with 11-12 litres only. LPG (same thing as Calor) is better in cold weather too.
Click to expand...

Would like to get hold of one of those adapters, where might I find one?
 
camping gaz

I might ruffle a few but I think we over think camping with all this what gas, what inverter, and what sleeping bag. I have 3 bottles of camping gas 907 one for the cooker one for the fridge and a spare
 
campervanannie said:
I might ruffle a few but I think we over think camping with all this what gas, what inverter, and what sleeping bag. I have 3 bottles of camping gas 907 one for the cooker one for the fridge and a spare
Click to expand...
You have gone from plucking feathers to ruffling them in less than a week, Camping Gas 907 is expensive but if that is all you have room for there is not much choice, I have the room to carry a spare of everything, (I even carry a spare LNB :eek:), I would carry a spare Wife if Maggy would let me
 
We don't have a grill, we 'toast' bread using a good quality frying pan and it tastes better than toast
 
I wonder how many of those who say Campingaz is too expensive have actually saved money by using a refillable tank. I suspect many users will have sold their vehicle before the break even point.

Using 907 bottles costs me about 25 - 30 pence per day. The last time I researched refillable tanks it was going to cost around £360 for the parts, plus fitting possibly, plus safety check, plus the gas itself. Then there's the fact that the tanks have a limited lifespan.

Obviously if you use a lot of gas you will recover the initial outlay quicker, but for modest users like myself Campingaz is far more convenient, and probably the cheapest option. It would take several months of continuous use for me to break even if I fitted a tank.

Another thing to consider is availability of refills. Campingaz is available throughout Europe, except Poland. Outside of Europe you can often find places which will refill empty bottles. If a refill is not available, a locally sourced bottle and regulator can be bought, and it is possible to use virtually any disposable butane or propane cartridge, with a suitable adaptor, in place of a Campingaz bottle.

Refilling external tanks might prove difficult outside of Europe; for example, the last time I checked there was just one place in Morocco which offers this service. Although not a major problem, you'll need various adaptors as different countries have different hose fittings.

Then there's the problem of continental LPG being a mixture of Propane and Butane (in the UK I've been assured it's Propane). If you fill up abroad then use the gas in the UK in cold weather, you could end up with just Butane in the tank, which will not evaporate.

I'll stick with Campingaz.
 
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