small butane heater search

[whitevanwoman]

Hate to say anything but this is a recipe for disaster unless of course you also have a carbon monoxide alarm fitted as well. It's nice to keep warm and have a nice jumper on a glass of wine or two and your off to sleep. Several hours later you probably won't be breathing air but CO2 .... Bit like sticking a hose pipe over the exhaust and bringing it in through a window. The ceramic heaters work because they burn the gas completely. Read the instructions they are for cooking ....

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Here we go again... there's always someone who has to say it, isn;t there :mad2:

With respect, and thanks for your concern for my well-being, please read back through other threads on the same subject and you will understand why I get so irritated every time heating in vans is discussed and people pass comments and make judgements on my arrangements.

I'm not going to argue back nor justify anything except for just a couple of points :

1. I have been cooking inside tents for many many years and fully understand the risks of carbon monoxide and fire in small enclosed spaces. I have also taught young people, as a outdoor instructor, about camping and how to stay safe outdoors. I am experienced in risk assessments with outdoor activities and do my own mental risk assessments on my arrangements.
2. I have had my arrangements in place for 2 years and me, my 2 dogs and my cat are all still very much alive and kicking and the carbon monoxide alarm has never gone off when using the butane cooker, perhaps this is because I am very aware of the risks and am very careful although no one seems to be able to credit me with having any common sense
3. My butane camping cooker does actually clearly state on the box that it can be used as both a cooker and a heater, perhaps I should post a photo of the packaging. So if I do kill myself using it as a heater, you have my full permission to sue the manufacturer for misleading packaging and mis-selling.

Enough said - as people who have been members for a couple of years will know, the words Carbon Monoxide are like a red rag to a bull to me.

Rest assured, you can happily tell me "I told you so" if I do gas myself.

Edit : sorry can't help myself, but just one more point, I have never said that I leave it on for hours nor do I go to sleep with it on. That would be really stupid. And as already pointed out, the butane canisters only last for about 3 hours and so even if I did fall asleep with a brand new canister in, it would burn out in 3 hours. As pointed out in another thread about ventilation, my vent is directly above the cooker, and it's an old transit with plenty of "natural" ventilation around the door seals - if it lets in rain, I'm sure it will let CO out. And because of condensation, I quite often leave a cab window open about 1 cm to reduce the amount of condensation on the inside of the windscreen in the morning.

Sorry if you take this wrong as I'm not trying to stir up trouble nor do I have any personal gripe with you, but it's just really irritating to be told the same thing over and over again by people who don't actually know my set up and assume that I'm careless and ignorant, or else who ignore what I've actually said. I do try really really hard not to react but it's tough when the same thing is said over and over and over and over and over and over (etc) again.

 

[QFour]

From the CALOR Website

Ventilation

The room in which Your Calor Gas mobile heater is being used must be well ventilated, this is to ensure that the mobile heater is receiving an adequate supply of fresh air. Ensure that if the room has ventilators and grilles, they are not blocked. Most rooms have fresh air entering around the doors and windows, however, if the room becomes stuffy open a window or door immediately.

Carbon Monoxide

Carbon monoxide (CO) is a highly poisonous gas which can be produced if the Calor Gas Fire is not working correctly. It is difficult to recognise as it has no colour, smell or taste. Symptoms of CO poisoning are similar to that of a viral infection. It effects the mental ability causing a person to become incapable without knowing.

Symptoms of exposure to Carbon Monoxide

Tightness across the forehead
Headache
Severe headache, weakness, dizziness, nausea, vomiting.
Coma, intermittent convulsions
Depressed heart action, slowed respiration.

If your Calor Gas Heater has any of the following, It could be producing carbon monoxide., so switch it off and do not use it again until it has been checked.

Burner panels which are dull and burn with a blue haze.
There are soot deposits on the panels.
The burner panels or cement fixings are damaged.
The mobile heater does not burn quietly.

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You also need to check your insurance for your van. If you do have an accident you may not be covered.

I know doom and gloom but please be careful.

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[whitevanwoman]

Thank you for the information and advice, as I said above, it has been said many many times and it is difficult not to fly off the handle when given the same info every time heating in my van is discussed and I am involved in the discussion or trying to find an alternative method. As I also said above, I used to teach Scouts, Guides and youth groups about campcraft and the risks of cooking in tents, so am fully conversant with the risks. You will find the same information repeated in virtually every thread about heating in vans on this forum, and it's a shame as the thread ends up going off topic and becomes an argument about health and safety, and the OP never does get their problem sorted out and they end up not daring to discuss it further for fear of provoking further reaction. I use Calor gas heaters at home, and also in my job, and am just in the process of drafting health and safety instructions for the use of the calor heaters at work so your information has saved me a google search.

 

[whitevanwoman]

hi again white van woman forget what other ppl think, it wasnt me by the way but i have one of thease already but as mentioned it was great to warm van up then switch off but im looking for sumthing that i can leave on for hours that produces a very small heat so i can keep a constant temp. ive looked into a small electric greenhouse type the best ive seen is 100 watt or there about but ts not 12 v and by the tie you have put it threw an inverter it will go through too much electric on battery power.and being in the uk esp when u neeed more heat in the winter you have less solar sun to recoup. low sun etc so solar a non option i think if you are like me whitewoman in a slef build the best long term option is to insulate the vehicle as much a spossible that roll of slver dtuff from bbq ok is not great but you had layer fter layer ad cover the draft im sure it soon starts to get warm also you can take it un tape it and use it in a nother vehivle if or when you want to . regards lee but good to hook up one time and swap notes on this whitevan woman i l get to one of those meets soon

The silver bubble wrap is good stuff, I've used about 6 rolls of it in my van, several layers on the roof on top of camping mats glued on to the roof. I've also used it to cover the ply lining on the sides and doors, and have used sheep fleece behind the ply where I've been able to get it off (one side has wooden frame along the side so too big a job to remove it to get the ply off). I love the way my solar fairy lights reflect off the silver at night time.

I'm thinking of a solar panel on the roof but in view of the disadvans and the fact that optimum solar is probably limited to just an hour or so per day even in summer because of the panel being fixed, I'm going to see how I get on with a 13w suitcase portable solar panel which can connect to either battery or which will recharge a laptop. If you make sure you move it to remain facing the sun every hour or so during the day, it seems to perform quite well. If away from the van during the day for a few hours, I leave it on the dashboard or front seats and try to park facing the sun.

But back to heating, one thing I discovered over Christmas is that stones from around a camp fire make great heaters - the heat stays in them for a good few hours. So that's got me thinking about heating stones up whilst using the gas stove for cooking or about looking to see if there is somewhere in the engine compartment close to the exhaust manifold where I could put a few stones in to heat up whilst the engine is running. Perhaps these are just pie in the sky ideas but worth checking out and if you ever have a campfire, make sure you take the stones to bed with you at night time, just keep an old t-shirt or jumper in the van to wrap them in to keep the dirt out of the bed.

Various meets being planned by the free motorhomers, some at festivals, so hope you can make it to one sometime - we can swop idiotic ideas :lol-053:

Edit : I've discovered that on average on waking in the morning, the temp inside my van is about 5 degrees C higher than outside, which I'm quite pleased with, but even so I've spent the past week working on adding more iinsulation as I'm away in it such a lot at the moment. The biggest problem is condensation during the winter and during prolonged periods of rain during the other months and a dampness in bedding and mattress, clothing, soft furnishings etc (no Tena lady comments please) and I try to make sure I get all the doors open and the van well aired whenever possible and try to avoid cooking, washing etc after having shut the van up for the night.

 

[landyrubbertramp]

The silver bubble wrap is good stuff, I've used about 6 rolls of it in my van, several layers on the roof on top of camping mats glued on to the roof. I've also used it to cover the ply lining on the sides and doors, and have used sheep fleece behind the ply where I've been able to get it off (one side has wooden frame along the side so too big a job to remove it to get the ply off). I love the way my solar fairy lights reflect off the silver at night time.

I'm thinking of a solar panel on the roof but in view of the disadvans and the fact that optimum solar is probably limited to just an hour or so per day even in summer because of the panel being fixed, I'm going to see how I get on with a 13w suitcase portable solar panel which can connect to either battery or which will recharge a laptop. If you make sure you move it to remain facing the sun every hour or so during the day, it seems to perform quite well. If away from the van during the day for a few hours, I leave it on the dashboard or front seats and try to park facing the sun.

But back to heating, one thing I discovered over Christmas is that stones from around a camp fire make great heaters - the heat stays in them for a good few hours. So that's got me thinking about heating stones up whilst using the gas stove for cooking or about looking to see if there is somewhere in the engine compartment close to the exhaust manifold where I could put a few stones in to heat up whilst the engine is running. Perhaps these are just pie in the sky ideas but worth checking out and if you ever have a campfire, make sure you take the stones to bed with you at night time, just keep an old t-shirt or jumper in the van to wrap them in to keep the dirt out of the bed.

Various meets being planned by the free motorhomers, some at festivals, so hope you can make it to one sometime - we can swop idiotic ideas :lol-053:

Edit : I've discovered that on average on waking in the morning, the temp inside my van is about 5 degrees C higher than outside, which I'm quite pleased with, but even so I've spent the past week working on adding more iinsulation as I'm away in it such a lot at the moment. The biggest problem is condensation during the winter and during prolonged periods of rain during the other months and a dampness in bedding and mattress, clothing, soft furnishings etc (no Tena lady comments please) and I try to make sure I get all the doors open and the van well aired whenever possible and try to avoid cooking, washing etc after having shut the van up for the night.

swap idiotic ideas. i like that one that made me laugh. remember when they said the world was flat and you sail off the end of the world that was idiotic too . i like your thinking . yeh be good to hook up at a meeting. kind regards lee

 

[whitevanwoman]

Ha ha Wints, you've taken me by surprise. I could sense a tsunami wave of irritation building up when I started reading your post, on the grounds of "please don't let this thread turn into a slanging match about CO and CO2" but then I read the second paragraph and immediately felt a bit guilty about castigating you.

"But most people on this forum have a lot of common sense..." has got to be one of the best things you've said on this forum for a good while :bow:

 

[landyrubbertramp]

This is perect what i bwas on about in my first post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-atp1FH3Y

 

[n brown]

I agree that most people on this site have enough common sense to understand the dangers of gas appliances in enclosed spaces. but the key word for me is ''most'' ! I'm glad that the dangers get pointed out whenever this subject comes up ! because I know from my experience,there's more than a few people who have no common sense and like it or not,we have a duty of care to these unfortunates

 

[spigot]

I'm using a heating method that would make the Elf 'n Safety pansies cringe, the flowerpot & candle system, see here:- VIDEO MUST SEE How man heats room for 8 PENCE a day - YouTube

Before you all start shouting, I've found it perfectly safe, it's been kicked over & tipped up & the tea lights just fizzle out, no fires!. The guy in the video uses it on a boat & a parked campervan is much more stable than a boat, even on the calmest mooring.

The only problem is it only lasts for 4 hours which is OK when you're in the van but not when it's stored in the garden. Recently when the temp fell to minus 2 I lit this contraption at 11pm so it probably went out at 3am. I went to the van at 8am the next morning & the temp was 8 degrees, so probably not too good if it gets much colder.

That Sunngas parabolic heater looks a good piece of kit but those Campingaz bottles are the most expensive way to buy LPG.

I recently bought on ebay a RINNAI REH402A radiant heater which I will use off a propane bottle filled up at the pump at 68.9 pence per litre.

 

[QFour]

Thank you for the information and advice, as I said above, it has been said many many times and it is difficult not to fly off the handle when given the same info every time heating in my van is discussed and I am involved in the discussion or trying to find an alternative method. As I also said above, I used to teach Scouts, Guides and youth groups about campcraft and the risks of cooking in tents, so am fully conversant with the risks. You will find the same information repeated in virtually every thread about heating in vans on this forum, and it's a shame as the thread ends up going off topic and becomes an argument about health and safety, and the OP never does get their problem sorted out and they end up not daring to discuss it further for fear of provoking further reaction. I use Calor gas heaters at home, and also in my job, and am just in the process of drafting health and safety instructions for the use of the calor heaters at work so your information has saved me a google search.

Glad it wasn't a waste of time

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[QFour]

Why not just use a blown air heater that's what they were designed for. Cheap to run and safe :sad:

 

[n brown]

not cheap though !

 

[spigot]

Why not just use a blown air heater that's what they were designed for. Cheap to run and safe :sad:

I can't see how they're cheap to run, in fact probably the most expensive form of heating, electricity is being used both on the element & the fan.

I'm on a basic state pension & have enough trouble paying the bills anyway so a blower heater is definitely out of the question

 

[n brown]

all heating costs,but a little woodburner costs the least.

 

[witzend]

Not sure if the conversion would work safely as those small aerosol type canisters heaters are high pressure and calor type regulators are low pressure

 

[molly 2]

Back to heaters

Have you seen the origo spirit heater small, portable. Can also be used to cook on .safe but must not be overfilld . meths can be for about a tenner for 5 litre avoid small bottles .l used the cooker version on my boat for years.I know of reports of origo bursting into flames due to overfilling and spilling meths .the down side is the price ,and condensation .may not be your answer but worth. A look

 

[Tbear]

thansk richard do you know if they connect to the calour bigger bottles?

I am sure you will be able to covert one but the reason I have used mine is that when fixed onto the camping gaz base , it is heavy and safe from falling over and runs forever. I tend to refill the cylinders myself (wait for it) so they are cheap. The whole of the stove does get very hot so you have to be careful of anything touching it. I am sure the catalytic stoves are safer (less risk of CO) but are much more expensive. We only use ours when we are awake and up and about or in the awning which is well ventilated.

Richard

I prefer these workshop type heaters to the greenhouse type paraffin and spirit heaters as they smell better and smoke less

 

[QFour]

I am sure you will be able to covert one but the reason I have used mine is that when fixed onto the camping gaz base , it is heavy and safe from falling over and runs forever. I tend to refill the cylinders myself (wait for it) so they are cheap. The whole of the stove does get very hot so you have to be careful of anything touching it. I am sure the catalytic stoves are safer (less risk of CO) but are much more expensive. We only use ours when we are awake and up and about or in the awning which is well ventilated.

Richard

I prefer these workshop type heaters to the greenhouse type paraffin and spirit heaters as they smell better and smoke less

:lol-061::lol-061:

No not going to bite already been told off tonight already ..

 

[landyrubbertramp]

Thanks for the info Richard

 

[spigot]

A compromise can be reached by mixing Propane with Butane, but as far as I'm aware, none of the UK 'big bottle' suppliers actually do this.

I have always been under the impression that Autogas from the pumps is a mixture of Propane & Butane, in this case we are "Getting the best of both Worlds"

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.