Side facing seats ?

stormywalters

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I was talking to a fellow camper this weekend about seat belts. They said they were told that side facing seats dont have to have seat belts. Does anyone know if this is true ?
Stormy....................
 
I seem to recall this is true.

construction and use regs are difficult at the best of times ,But I believe what you have been told is in principal correct

Channa
 
yes its true, seatbelts and a sideways seat are dangerous.

im putting sideway seats in so i can carry people in the back. when i had a rock and roll bed in my old T3 seat belts were needed.
 
cooljules said:
yes its true, seatbelts and a sideways seat are dangerous.

im putting sideway seats in so i can carry people in the back. when i had a rock and roll bed in my old T3 seat belts were needed.
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B*gger that - If anyone's sitting behind me I want them lashed to something solid...
 
Thanks.... Probably wont sit in the back when traveling but was just interested to know if it was true.
Thanks again Happy camping
Stormy
 
It's not illegal to carry passengers on side facing seats without seatbealts in older vehicles, but it is illegal to carry passengers without
being properly restrained and the particulars of that mean in effect you can be prosecuted if not carrying them in properly certified
forward facing seatbelted seats. This effectively relegates some vans and motorhomes to legally 2 berths even if originally designed to carry more.
Some rock and roll beds are also not certified by the manufacturer to the standard i.e not crash test passed, which certainly means some
home made rock and roll beds are also unsuitable to carry passengers.

Small vans like older transit conversions with side seats, and the older romahome for example are legally now 2 berth and new owners thinking
of buying a cheap camper fall foul of this when buying something for a family day out as they cannot be converted or are financially too
expensive to alter. Also if you are going anywhere near London there is also the Low Emissions Zone standard to comply with for older
motorhomes and that can also make an older purchase a waste of money as it's in the region of £1500 to comply or £100 a day fine enforced
by camera surveillence.
 
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I believe that it is still legal to carry unrestrained people on side facing seats, and to put lap belts on side facing seats can cause serious injuries to vulnerable parts of the wearer, however you can still be prosecuted for carrying an unrestrained load.

al
 
al n sal said:
I believe that it is still legal to carry unrestrained people on side facing seats, and to put lap belts on side facing seats can cause serious injuries to vulnerable parts of the wearer, however you can still be prosecuted for carrying an unrestrained load.

al
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ah.....has this been tested in court? i cant understand, people sat sideways in the rear, going forward in a crash, but as its very dangerous to have them wearing seatbelts, does this mean they have to be 2/3 seats (in the cab?)
 
al n sal said:
I believe that it is still legal to carry unrestrained people on side facing seats, and to put lap belts on side facing seats can cause serious injuries to vulnerable parts of the wearer, however you can still be prosecuted for carrying an unrestrained load.

al
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Well done I think your explanation nails it ...and answers the Op,s original question .... The side facing seats arent an issue no seat belt is not an issue ...But an unrestrained load opens up a totally different can of worms.

And it is this can of worms worth considering if you elect to fit side facing seating.

Channa
 
Hi Channa.

I nearly fell foul myself looking at offers on gumtree and ebay until I read more. I'm glad I didn't jump at some of the
bargains nice vehicles that they may have been. I saw a really nice 6 berth with a rear lounge that had become a 2 berth lol.

So I've now gone with a Wellhouse Leisure Regius conversion. Ok more expensive, but instead of a main car and a campervan,
I'll now have the Campervan as my only vehicle (4 berth). The next killer will be the LEZ zones as more areas adopt it over it
next few years.
 
To reply to the cab question....changes have meant that to get your vehicle changed to a motorcaravan it has to also
look like a motorcaravan and not just like a van with windows.

Motorcaravan certification means cheaper insurance. Again I almost fell foul of this one as some insurers will not give you
insurance as a campervan unless you have front cabin to rear inside access and Dolmens for example require photos
and certificates of installation of certain areas before accepting any cover.

So yes you will only be able to carry passengers in the front which will be a max of 2, but you may have to insure as a van with
a goods vehicle certificate which may be more expensive....it's going to depend on the insurer and whether the converter is
on an insurers list of approved manufacturers. Again it's the DIY conversions that are going to suffer the higher insurances.

As for tested in court...it's already in law and illegal to carry passengers unrestrained unless in forward facing seats from 4 or 5 years
back. If you get caught or there is any sort of accident even not your fault you're stuffed and your insurance cover is gone once
the insurers read the accident report....totally not worth doing. Yes I know all about the work vans carrying people to work...the
police are hitting firms with that one too.

Personally I can't afford to lose my insurance cover and have someone sue me personally for damages....house and life savings
worked for over a lifetime gone in an instant!
 
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Mark McGimpsey said:
To reply to the cab question....changes have meant that to get your vehicle changed to a motorcaravan it has to also
look like a motorcaravan and not just like a van with windows.

Motorcaravan certification means cheaper insurance. Again I almost fell foul of this one as some insurers will not give you
insurance as a campervan unless you have front cabin to rear inside access and Dolmens for example require photos
and certificates of installation of certain areas before accepting any cover.

So yes you will only be able to carry passengers in the front which will a max of 2, but you may have to insure as a van with
a goods vehicle certificate which may be more expensive....it's going to depend on the insurer and whether the converter is
on an insurers list of approved manufacturers. Again it's the DIY conversions that are going to suffer the higher insurances.
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i heard about some problems people had, that it was hit or miss at the local DVLA.

my cab was totally seperate, having the thin metal panel, but a friend used my angle grinder and removed it. mine does have a fibreglass high top. so does look like a camper, more than a van. but LT in germans, means cargo transporter :-/
 
Here is the "official" view from DoT (Department of Ttansport) courtesey of ukmotorhomes.net

You may want to check out the DVLA revise their rule change on campervan conversions[/I]
"Following pressure from interested parties the DVLA have reconsidered their recent change of policy regarding the criteria required for the 'body type' classification on the V5C Registration Document to be changed to 'motor caravan' following a conversion. Read more..." on the same site.

John
 
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Mark McGimpsey said:
Motorcaravan certification means cheaper insurance.
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I'm not sure thats always the case because I'm paying £174 per year comprehensive for my X2/50 (Citroen Relay) Maxi van.
A lot depends on who you insure with, because some insurers don't seem to appreciate a van being used like a private car, i.e non-commercially.
Also, as always, getting insurance tends to be much simpler and cheaper if the vehicle has not been altered or modified - mine is just a boarded out van with furniture secured in the back.
 
Does this affect my Geist Matterhorn? 2 forward facing seats fitted with full 3-point seat belts, plus 2 REAR facing seats with no belts. I understood passengers could be carried on rear facing seats without belts...anyone know if that's illegal too?
 
Same situation gadabout, one law says you can carry passengers without the seat belts on side facing seats, or rear facing seats, but
another law about passengers being unrestrained takes precedence. If you carry passengers unrestrained then you are liable to prosecution.

It should be easy enough to have three point belts installed.
 
"if you carry passengers unrestrained then you are liable to prosecution."

Are you positive Mark? I get on my Stagecoach bus and sit on a side facing seat which means Stagecoach are breaking the law???????????????????
 
Not much consolation to realise that this law was brought in several years ago to particularily stop the practice of
overloading private cars with passengers (including extra children), and the 4 - 6 workmen in the back of the white
works van sitting on the floor. Like all changes something else gets screwed up which was probably never considered
and in this case it was older MHs some which cannot be altered as the body is fiberglass.

Though overall the passenger safety I think is a good law, yet in most cases buses carry their passengers unrestrained,
so perhaps we're not quite there yet as regards passenger safety and vehicles.
 
No buses are exempt from that particular law, though I believe schoolbuses have been included recently...but might be
incorrect there.
 
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