Safe Winching

[Tbear]

Beemer started a thread on Winching and Obanboy666 advised caution because of the extremely devastating results of cables snapping. I grew up in a mining community and all the miners had a tale to tell of when a Panzer conveyor chain snapped. I know a guy who survived being hit buy it. After about two years he could get around fairly normally. The thing that reminded me of this story was when the other day I got the van stuck on some wet soft grass. I ran a cable to the car and tried to pull it out but with full power nothing happened. Did not budge an inch but looking out of the front of the car I wondered what would happen if the hook came off the van. It was on the end of a long cable. I cut the power!!!

How about some safety tips. I know we should use the correct strap with ample breaking strain but nobody ever has one when you are sinking in the poo. Even if you own one, what's the chances someone has borrowed it or its a foot too short?

Richard

 

[Deleted member 38556]

Beemer started a thread on Winching and Obanboy666 advised caution because of the extremely devastating results of cables snapping. I grew up in a mining community and all the miners had a tale to tell of when a Panzer conveyor chain snapped. I know a guy who survived being hit buy it. After about two years he could get around fairly normally. The thing that reminded me of this story was when the other day I got the van stuck on some wet soft grass. I ran a cable to the car and tried to pull it out but with full power nothing happened. Did not budge an inch but looking out of the front of the car I wondered what would happen if the hook came off the van. It was on the end of a long cable. I cut the power!!!

How about some safety tips. I know we should use the correct strap with ample breaking strain but nobody ever has one when you are sinking in the poo. Even if you own one, what's the chances someone has borrowed it or its a foot too short?

Richard

Don't drive in to the poo in the first place
Far to many just drive in to wet fields with out checking at all
They deserve all they get

A little forward thinking can avoid many disasters.
Good luck in wet muddy England. He he he

 

[Tbear]

Don't drive in to the poo in the first place
Far to many just drive in to wet fields with out checking at all
They deserve all they get

A little forward thinking can avoid many disasters.
Good luck in wet muddy England. He he he

You always get a helpful one on this site To make it worse, It was just outside my house

Richard

 

[El Veterano]

I used to know a guy who, for recreation, went off with his mates in stripped down Disco's, deliberately getting stuck in some remote wood and winching themselves out - only to move 100 meters and do it all again. Failed to see the point myself, but he loved it. He on the other hand couldn't see the point of me going round and round in circles on a motorcycle in a muddy field with 40 other nutters.

 

[maingate]

Beemer started a thread on Winching and Obanboy666 advised caution because of the extremely devastating results of cables snapping. I grew up in a mining community and all the miners had a tale to tell of when a Panzer conveyor chain snapped. I know a guy who survived being hit buy it. After about two years he could get around fairly normally. The thing that reminded me of this story was when the other day I got the van stuck on some wet soft grass. I ran a cable to the car and tried to pull it out but with full power nothing happened. Did not budge an inch but looking out of the front of the car I wondered what would happen if the hook came off the van. It was on the end of a long cable. I cut the power!!!

How about some safety tips. I know we should use the correct strap with ample breaking strain but nobody ever has one when you are sinking in the poo. Even if you own one, what's the chances someone has borrowed it or its a foot too short?

Richard

Speaking as someone who worked on Coal faces, there is a bit of difference between Beemers toy winch and an armoured face conveyor. The conveyor was made up of 2 lines of heavy chain with flight bars between (every 15 links) and driven by a 125 HP motor at one end and a 65 HP motor at the back end.

Beemers winch will stall before it will snap the wire rope as it is only rated at 2000 lbs and the rope should be a higher breaking strain. He would have been better off with a 30 cwt Tirfor. It is probably lighter although manually operated.

Whatever is carried, it will not move a motorhome unless some preparation work (with a shovel) is done first ..... unless you carry a Tractor with you. :raofl:

 

[maxi77]

I learnt about wires pulling 2500 ton ships around with them and whilst I never saw a wire go I was well aware of the damage they can cause. A wire will be very tight and most likely singing before it goes. Rope is not that safe either, whilst it is not too bad when it breaks you can develop enough pressure round a windlass to melt the surface of the rope which then acts as a lubricant and the rope just zips round the drum, very scary and have experienced that.

With car winches and even tirfors the wire is so much stronger than the pulling device breaking it is not going to be that easy so pretty safe unless you have pre-damaged the wire.

 

[Fazerloz]

Speaking as someone who worked on Coal faces, there is a bit of difference between Beemers toy winch and an armoured face conveyor. The conveyor was made up of 2 lines of heavy chain with flight bars between (every 15 links) and driven by a 125 HP motor at one end and a 65 HP motor at the back end.

Beemers winch will stall before it will snap the wire rope as it is only rated at 2000 lbs and the rope should be a higher breaking strain. He would have been better off with a 30 cwt Tirfor. It is probably lighter although manually operated.

Whatever is carried, it will not move a motorhome unless some preparation work (with a shovel) is done first ..... unless you carry a Tractor with you. :raofl:

How many tlmes did you couple the panzer chains by just putting a sprag from the flight bar to the roof and running in reverse rather than fetching the pull lifts. The main thing is just be very aware of whats going on around you. Wasn't it fun. :danger:

Any advances on 2500 ton.

 

[maingate]

How many tlmes did you couple the panzer chains by just putting a sprag from the flight bar to the roof and running in reverse rather than fetching the pull lifts. The main thing is just be very aware of whats going on around you. Wasn't it fun. :danger:

Any advances on 2500 ton.

Didn't need a sprag. :king:

Isolate the tailgate motor and put the maingate motor in reverse. That threw enough slack to couple the chain again. It worked very well as there were very few 3 fingered Fitters where I worked. :cool1:

BTW, the accident Tbear alluded to was probably caused by a haulage chain breaking and not the Panzer chain. I have seen that happen a couple of times and it is a bit scary if you are too close for comfort.

 

[Deleted member 3802]

Ahh fly coupling !! A lot easier than dragging and coupling the pretensioner up !! Our Seam was that low we had to take flat fish for snap !!

Just remembering we used to have to split the nuts off first with an hammer and chisel to get the bolts out !! Then hacksaw the spare chain to get a pair of links to tighten chain ahh good old day !! Usually done between shifts on over time so we got two pies two wafer biscuits and a glass of milk !! Memories they can't take them from us olden s can they

 

[Neckender]

Ahh fly coupling !! A lot easier than dragging and coupling the pretensioner up !! Our Seam was that low we had to take flat fish for snap !!

Just remembering we used to have to split the nuts off first with an hammer and chisel to get the bolts out !! Then hacksaw the spare chain to get a pair of links to tighten chain ahh good old day !! Usually done between shifts on over time so we got two pies two wafer biscuits and a glass of milk !! Memories they can't take them from us olden s can they

Working in the shaft or the sump was best less hours and more pay, was coming out of the sump one day my tools tipped out of my bag and fell into the Ocker water below, I thought sod it and continued up the ladder up to pit bottom. Got Forman to sign for new set of tools from stores.
Also was fetched from home as Atomic shearer broke down and virtually all the fitters were there, spent nearly 3 days underground, and manager sent food and water on to the face, took home loads of pies and cakes obtained with the snapin notes.
John.

 

[maingate]

3 days to fix a Shearer! :raofl:

No wonder they had an excuse to shut pits. It sounds like only the Geordies were keeping the industry afloat.

I have plenty of memories, most of them not happy ones.

ie changing a pan in the middle of the face, 1 hour in 36" height ..... a full shifts work in 18". It was always the pan in the wet which folded.

 

[Deleted member 12539]

Always welcome a thread on safety.. even if I do only have a 'toy' winch, it could still bite. :idea-007:
Not really a newby to ropes, lashings, swr and pulleys, and my time in the RE,s we used tirfor jacks to pull Bailey bridges into position, and to build Gin and shears.
However, I have no intention of doing any serious winching, especially if there is an alternative (a tractor) so my toy may never get used to assist the motorhome, it is just peace of mind that I will have a means if nothing else...

 

[Tbear]

Didn't need a sprag. :king:

Isolate the tailgate motor and put the maingate motor in reverse. That threw enough slack to couple the chain again. It worked very well as there were very few 3 fingered Fitters where I worked. :cool1:

BTW, the accident Tbear alluded to was probably caused by a haulage chain breaking and not the Panzer chain. I have seen that happen a couple of times and it is a bit scary if you are too close for comfort.

You may well be correct. It was 40 years ago. From my one and only trip down a coalface (Lip fell in and just missed me) as a fifteen year old, I seem to remember the Panzer was double and well held down on the floor. Whatever it was it snapped and wrapped around poor old Lols chest. Very lucky to survive so many fractures.

So can we say that "toy" winches are fairly safe as long as you do not extend them with a bit of old rope.

Richard

PS This thread has reminded me of a sitting in the Malty Miners Welfare Institute (Stute) with my old dad and his mates

 

[Neckender]

3 days to fix a Shearer! :raofl:

No wonder they had an excuse to shut pits. It sounds like only the Geordies were keeping the industry afloat.

I have plenty of memories, most of them not happy ones.

ie changing a pan in the middle of the face, 1 hour in 36" height ..... a full shifts work in 18". It was always the pan in the wet which folded.

The job was done properly over a week end, it was not bodged with a bit of string and chewing gum.

John.

 

[maingate]

The job was done properly over a week end, it was not bodged with a bit of string and chewing gum.

John.

Hopefully we might get together at one of the WC Meets and I can give you southerners a bit of training on Shearers, Trepan Shearers, AB15's, Eimco rockershovels and telling tall tales. :dance:

We never bodged .... but we sometimes found alternative methods. :mad1: Like the time I wound loads of shotwire round 2 halves of a face conveyor drive coupling (handfilling not mechanised) because the rubber bobbins had sheared. :dance:

It worked very well.

 

[taffythevan]

Ooops, I was just going to discuss the various pros and cons of Durex and Mates and realised I had misread the thread title.

 

[Bushtrekker]

Safe winching.

When I was at work some bright spark employed an ex-royal marine and police pursuit driver. Later on it was decided that everyone who drove 4WD vehicles should be trained by this guy. At the time I owned a Landrover 110 and regularly drove offroad, so when he came to the winching bit and he managed to run the cable off the drum under power and generally screwed up I kept quiet until lunchtime, then had a go at him telling him that you should NEVER winch without putting an old carpet or something similar over the cable in case it snaps. It might save your life.

Mind you, I did learn to outrun police pursuit drivers.

 

[Tbear]

Hi Bushtrekker.

Buy Marines Flowers bitter, calms them down a treat. At least they only beat the cr*p out of each other then.

Thankyou for the winching tip.

Richard

 

[kennymac]

Grip mats,sand ladders bridging ladders......whatever you call them can be lifesavers.

These are joining my inventory soon,I use a 4x4 pickup with an Apollo demountable.
Sand Ladders - 1000 x 310 x 25mm - Tracmat UK

As for winch cables,the conventional wisdom is to use a cable sail,its just a big oblong of PVC with some Velcro on it,fold it over the centre of the cable and Velcro it shut.cable snaps or comes off the sail takes most of the energy out of the flying cable. If your stuck I've seen an old jacket used,put the winch cable down one arm and out the other,slide it to mid point on cable,carry on and hope for the best.

 

[alcam]

Winching

Ooops, I was just going to discuss the various pros and cons of Durex and Mates and realised I had misread the thread title.

Yes winching means something quite different where I'm from as well ! From other posts think the Scottish version is more fun !