Repairing debonded top layer of roof.

[barge1914]

An area of 2-3 square feet of the thin top layer of the roof on my 3 year old RT Pegaso motorhome has become debonded from the roof. I am not quite sure what the material is, but it feels too thin to be a structural layer of a composite deck.

RT has rejected a claim for repair as the weasel words in their so called 10 year integrity warranty exclude faults in the grp body panels after a year and only cover resealing the main joints between walls floor and roof (not even around windows doors etc.). There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of water ingress.

I’m not sure yet whether it is a serious problem, or whether it is imperative to fix it, but it looks like I am left to my own devices to resolve it…I can’t imagine any solution that they would offer will enter into the realms of affordability.

Has anyone any experience of solutions to such a problem? Or knowledge of a specialist company who could do it?

I wonder if there is some way of injecting a liquid slow setting adhesive and spreading beneath the surface with the pressure from a roller. It would have course need to be compatible with the materials and capable of setting in the absence of air. Ideas welcome?

 

[Scotia]

Have you done a Google search and see if this is a common problem and if others have the same issue? I'm sure oppy offered a repair kit last year for free so maybe he has an idea on what is required. Check your legal rights as well 3 years is not long and sounds as if the roof is suffering delamination.

 

[oppy]

Have you done a Google search and see if this is a common problem and if others have the same issue? I'm sure oppy offered a repair kit last year for free so maybe he has an idea on what is required. Check your legal rights as well 3 years is not long and sounds as if the roof is suffering delamination.

Yes I did but it was for the floor though, sorry

 

[DTF]

I would talk to your local trading standards. This sound like a fault and as far as I am aware you have 6 years under the CRA (Consumer Rights Act) for the retailer to fix this. Your claim is with the retailer and not RT. The warranty issue/response is irrelevant if this is a fault, if the vehicle is only 3 years old and the CRA applies. The retailer is unlikely to admit to this!!

 

[maingate]

Try contacting a TV Consumer Rights programme like Ripoff Britain. If they take up your problem you are virtually guaranteed a good outcome as these companies hate the bad publicity.

 

[molly 2]

I think you need to post photo of the damage with a close up . Or take it to a repairer for advice and a cost estimate. It could be a previous repair and the paint is peeling of ,to the gell coat delaminating , citizen advice is a good place to start for consumer advice .

 

[barge1914]

The story develops….I’ve floated this on the Pegaso and RT forums…I’ll see what replies I get after people start hopping up ladders to check their own. Any RT owners on here, the back end of many models are similar…

On the attached photos I have indicated in red the areas where the outer grp (?) waterproof layer of the roof is debonded from, or is not stuck to the substrate. And in yellow the sealant joint to the rear camera housing which has no chance of sealing due to the inherent flexing of the grp beneath where it curves over the rear of the roof. (Which helps to explain why the electrical connections to the camera are flooded by rain).

Questions:

Is this lack of adhesion an inherent part of the design? Intended? Not an issue?

Is this a fault? If so, a design fault or an installation fault, or a fault that has developed in in time with use.

And if so is it sufficiently serious to require remedial action?

Design comment:

The residual springiness inherent in the bent grp appears to result in the grp bowing upwards where it passes onto the flat roof surface in places where it is not otherwise restrained by the solar panel or roof light frame. And exaggerated by not inconsiderable thermal movements as the roof expands and contracts it also pulls away from the substrate beneath the curved areas.

Over time it is almost inevitable that these forces will tear at any adhesive intended to bond the material to the substrate.

It would be interesting to learn from other owners, who perhaps normally would not have cause to look too closely at these areas as to whether this is a widespread issue before I proceed further with my enquiries.

 

[izwozral]

Not looking good Ian I'm afraid. https://www.google.com/search?q=del...ome..69i57.11792j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

CAB or solicitor may boot RT up the backside. Good luck.

 

[izwozral]

May or may not help? https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/36640-blisters-on-motorhome-roof/

 

[molly 2]

Looks like a manufacturing fault with the gell coat , you need a report from qualified expert perhaps a marine grp expert , then legal advice if it was on a boat the repair would be grinding of gell coat and replacing with a new epoxy outer skin ,trevscoda has done this of work hopefully he will comment shortly .

 

[Glass man]

I went round the Pilote factory, the roof was made up as a sandwich with a central insulation and structural part covered by a glue film and a decorative layer for the inside and top sheet for the outside. This was then glued together by melting the sandwich in a heated press for 20 minutes.
I don't know how common this method is but it might be possible to warm an area and then restick it.

 

[Fisherman]

Sorry to hear of your problems with the van Ian, as for Roller Team, I would never buy another again. I have had two minor issues which I had to fix myself at my own expense after them wiping their hands on them. A faulty window on the drivers door, and the bonnet catch which had not been welded properly. But I have not had anything as serious as this. This is obviously a manufacturing fault, and as for their so called five year hab warranty, and their 10 year water ingress warranty, try claiming it. I also had a faulty fridge control which they refused to cover after just short of three years, but it was done under Thetfords warranty.
Off course you are only covered if you have been paying for hab checks.


Delimitation is normally caused by moisture finding its way within the GRP separating the surface from the rest of the material. From what you posted the water ingress within the GRP may come from the toilet vent, or the join between the roof and the rear panel. What you have to do is find out how the moisture has found its way in and reseal it. If the damage is not too bad it’s possible to re affix the outer layer by drilling small holes in the outer layer injecting adhesive then applying pressure over the area affected for 24 hours.

The good news is normally this is purely cosmetic, and does not lead to water ingress within the van, but obviously that’s of little comfort.

Well my next van will be a PVC with a two year warranty, that suits me, I have no faith in these warranties being handed out with more holes in them than a tea bag. It’s a real shame because the Pegaso is a fantastic van.

Ian I hope you get this sorted soon, and without too much hassle. I agree with other posters think about getting advice. Possibly contact MMM they are great on such issues, and they carry some clout. They may well be able to give you some good advice, not only on what’s involved in repairing this, but also your rights and how to achieve them.

All the very best, sorry to hear this.

 

[barge1914]

Sorry to hear of your problems with the van Ian, as for Roller Team, I would never buy another again. I have had two minor issues which I had to fix myself at my own expense after them wiping their hands on them. A faulty window on the drivers door, and the bonnet catch which had not been welded properly. But I have not had anything as serious as this. This is obviously a manufacturing fault, and as for their so called five year hab warranty, and their 10 year water ingress warranty, try claiming it. I also had a faulty fridge control which they refused to cover after just short of three years, but it was done under Thetfords warranty.
Off course you are only covered if you have been paying for hab checks.


Delimitation is normally caused by moisture finding its way within the GRP separating the surface from the rest of the material. From what you posted the water ingress within the GRP may come from the toilet vent, or the join between the roof and the rear panel. What you have to do is find out how the moisture has found its way in and reseal it. If the damage is not too bad it’s possible to re affix the outer layer by drilling small holes in the outer layer injecting adhesive then applying pressure over the area affected for 24 hours.

The good news is normally this is purely cosmetic, and does not lead to water ingress within the van, but obviously that’s of little comfort.

Well my next van will be a PVC with a two year warranty, that suits me, I have no faith in these warranties being handed out with more holes in them than a tea bag. It’s a real shame because the Pegaso is a fantastic van.

Ian I hope you get this sorted soon, and without too much hassle. I agree with other posters think about getting advice. Possibly contact MMM they are great on such issues, and they carry some clout. They may well be able to give you some good advice, not only on what’s involved in repairing this, but also your rights and how to achieve them.

All the very best, sorry to hear this.

Thanks Bill. They refuse the warranty I think because of the weasel words that limit it to water ingress through only main seams excluding doors, windows, vents etc. The warranty limits grp defects to 1 year.

From what I can see the seams look good anyway. The little gap behind the top sheet seems dry, if you tap the sheet against the substrate it makes a clear tapping sound without resistance or squelch of water, but maybe another story in wet weather, a week or two will tell. Damp readings fine inside.

I’m trying to find out in the context of Consumer Protection Act if there is any case law precedent pinning down what is deemed a reasonable time in terms of merchantable quality before a new motorhome roof should require major structural repairs. I am sure it’s a lot longer than 1 or 2 years. CMC legal service or even insurance legal team may be able to offer an opinion perhaps.

 

[Canalsman]

LBC (radio station) have a phone in slot from 9pm to 10pm on Friday and Saturday nights.

Friday is with a consumer rights expert, Saturday with a barrister who will advise on legal rights.

Either can handle such an issue.

The number to call during the shows is 0345 606 0973.

Give them a call. They are extremely helpful.

 

[izwozral]

Good shout for the above.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I would expect that without a cure eventually the delamination will spread to the whole roof and will be subject to wind forces when driving quickly on motorways, basically flapping like a flag almost and the only securing points being the edges and rooflights so it needs sorting out properly even if it means re roofing by RT.

 

[QFour]

Trade it in. You could be in for a long battle. Had a Pilote with a problematic bed. Always worked when it went in to be looked at on a perfectly flat workshop floor. Got fed up with it and traded it in.

 

[molly 2]

Seems to be a big lack of good will . Another company shows its true colours.

 

[gasgas]

Trade it in. You could be in for a long battle. Had a Pilote with a problematic bed. Always worked when it went in to be looked at on a perfectly flat workshop floor. Got fed up with it and traded it in.

I had a Rapido once, never again. The moron in the factory pushing together an 8 pin plug and socket could not have failed to see one of the pins sticking out of the plug, (in the electric bed wiring) so not connecting properly. Brownhills failed to find the fault on three return visits. I had to get the installation manual from the bed manufacturer in Italy, trace the fault and fix it by removing the plug and socket, and soldering all the wires. Next, the bed collapsed in one corner. After a £600 legal letter Brownhills refused to refund the cost of the vehicle and it would have cost me £20,000 - "That will get you the FIRST day in court" said the solicitor so I just traded it in.

 

[barge1914]

Well, this is the reply from RT to the dealer….

<<<This is the response from Roller Team after reading your e mail about the roof on your motorhome.

when the vehicle is manufactured, the GRP of the roof is not glued in the press but it is glued during the assembly of the roof and fixed through the horizontal aluminum profile. So in that area there is no polyurethane glue but some sealant. In this case, some time after production, the sealant from the polystyrene applied under the curved part could have detached. It is therefore not a design flaw but a problem that has developed over time. There are no water tightness and insulation problems. You can remove the horizontal profile, the stop light plastic and seal the curved part again.

I hope that's enough to answer your client.>>>

It seems to me that if the curve is not moulded into the grp roof sheet, and the sheet is simply bent into position and trapped with an aluminium profile it will retain sufficient springiness to inevitability, never mind eventually, peel away from any mastic, especially when heat and thermal expansion is factored in. And that peeling it up and squirting in more sealant on surfaces contaminated with old sealant it will eventually go the same way again.