Proposal to restrict speed for over 3 tonn ULW

[Deleted member 967]

Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV) and Passenger Carrying Vehicle (PCV) motorway speed limits:
A Consultation Document (Department of Transport-2010-06).
A Department of Transport (DfT) consultation process has started to make changes to speed limits and would restrict use of the outside lane on motorways for HGV in the ex. works unladen weight range of 3.5 to 7.5 ton and PCV vehicles determined by length.

Consultation on Heavy Goods Vehicle and Passenger Carrying Vehicle motorway speed limits

Section 4.6 of the DfT document clearly mentions dual purpose vehicles, and motorcaravans (motorhomes or campervans) exceeding 3050kg (3.05 tonnes) ex. works unladen weight are included in the scope of the changes.Section 4.2 of the DfT document summarises the changes that we would be required to make, the current speed restrictions and DfT proposed speed restrictions are shown in mph in the table below:

Vehicle Class :Current motorway limit roposed limit setting
HGVs 3.5 - 7.5 tomes: 70 :60
HGVs more than 7.5 tonnes: 60 (no change) :60 (no change)
PCVs less than 12 m long: 70 : 65
PCVs more than 12 m long : 60 : 65

1.Do you agree that we should reduce the speed limit from 70mph to 60mph for HGVs not exceeding 7.5 tonnes (under item 5(1), column 3(a) of Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984) and, if not, why not?

2.Do you agree that we should reduce the speed limit from 70mph to 65mph for PCVs not exceeding 12 metres, etc. (under item 1(i), column 3(a) of Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984) and, if not, why not?

3.Do you agree that we should increase the speed limit from 60mph to 65mph for PCVs exceeding 12 metres, etc. (under item 1(i), column 3(a) of Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984) and, if not, why not?

4.Do you agree with the draft Impact Assessment (at pagel3) - and/or can you help us to quantify more precisely the estimated costs and benefits?

5.Do you consider that the proposed changes would have any other unintended implications which we have not considered in this consultation document and Impact Assessment and, if so, please identify what these implications may be and try to place a quantified value on them.

The fact that Motorhomes of 3.05 tonn ULW are to be included, but no specific question is asked is worrying. We are obviously meant to take what is dictated to us. We are not HGV we are heavy motor cars. I note that the limits on parking in France are 3.5 tonn not 3.05 tonn.

 

[Deleted member 775]

cannot see it bothering the majority of us owners ,as most i talk to usualy stick to 60 65 mph ,in no real hurry to get where we are going .certainly wont bother me as anyone who has or has owned a 4 speed bedford cf will vouch for 50 max for comfort i have had 70 almost down hill only once never again (drum brakes and no anti rollbars fitted )

 

[Channa]

I pretty much agree with Mandrake. Mid 50'sgives the best fuel return and with prices creeping up again I have no intention of wanting to do 70 mph. No tin a motorhome at least


Channa

 

[Deleted member 967]

cannot see it bothering the majority of us owners ,as most i talk to usualy stick to 60 65 mph ,in no real hurry to get where we are going .certainly wont bother me as anyone who has or has owned a 4 speed bedford cf will vouch for 50 max for comfort i have had 70 almost down hill only once never again (drum brakes and no anti rollbars fitted )

Having also owned a CF Autosleeper I can agree with you.

The only difference I can see is not being able to nip into the outside lane of a 3 lane motorway when the inside two lanes are blocked by slow overtaking lorries.

I stick to 50 or 60 anyway myself.

 

[biggirafe]

Like John I will miss being able to use the outside lane on the rare occasions 2 lorries have the other lanes but I would be a hypocrite if I did not think this was a good idea, I've lost count of the times I have 'tut tutted' white vans in the outside lane doing 75+. Lets face it most of us are driving 3/4 loaded vans and as such weight at least 2x that of a car, should we be in the outside lane doing 70? I don;t think so.

Now wheres that AJ I'm sure he has something to say once he gets over the shock of reading the thread leader.

 

[BedfordMJ]

At lot of motorhomes will have ABS and such things as servo assisted brakes I think many should be fine at 70MPH. As for me I can't do 70MPH and it would be illegal if I did. 50MPH is also steady enough for this Bedford owner. I have reached the dizzy speed of 65MPH but it's not worth the extra stress and fuel consumption. When i'm going away i'm not in a rush.

 

[Proff]

I'm not bothered with the speed limit going down, My Hymer is happiest and most economical @ 56 mph [90 kmh]
I'm usually towing so being unable to use outside lane is normal for me..
One thing I WOULD like to see come into practise is the German and other Euro rule that Keeps the trucks from doing 9 mile overtakes
EG >>> E31. E1, E29 Venlo to Bremen..
NO Goods vehicles over 4.6 tonne allowed in lane 2 between 6am and 7pm..
only exception is on 2 lane roads that every 50/60 kms have a 2 km stretch of 3 lane for overtaking, IF the overtaking vehicle is not clear when the road goes back to two lane he HAS to drop back.. Fines are up to €1000.00 for non compliance

 

[biggirafe]

I'm not bothered with the speed limit going down, My Hymer is happiest and most economical @ 56 mph [90 kmh]
I'm usually towing so being unable to use outside lane is normal for me..
One thing I WOULD like to see come into practise is the German and other Euro rule that Keeps the trucks from doing 9 mile overtakes
EG >>> E31. E1, E29 Venlo to Bremen..
NO Goods vehicles over 4.6 tonne allowed in lane 2 between 6am and 7pm..
only exception is on 2 lane roads that every 50/60 kms have a 2 km stretch of 3 lane for overtaking, IF the overtaking vehicle is not clear when the road goes back to two lane he HAS to drop back.. Fines are up to €1000.00 for non compliance

So a lorry doing 55 coming up behind another lorry doing 50mph on the motorway could not overtake Hows that going to work, In particular if a lorries most economical speed is 55 mph then we force them to use more fuel just to keep lane 2 clear.

Sounds like more poorly thought through Euro lunacy to me, I bet the Germans thought it up, they hate being slowed down during rush hour, left hand indicator on lights are flashing

 

[Proff]

Nope don't work like that....
Most [99.9%] of continental trucks do the 90 kmph restricted limit easily, they just joggle the cruise control...
I was in a line of at least 100 trucks all doing 90 kph for over 100 miles, so relaxing not having some silly sod taking 9 miles to overtake and pulling into service area 50 miles up the road whilst still in sight.
Some noticeably slow trucks pulled onto hard shoulder to alleviate probs, but IIRC I've only seen it personally maybe four times
Apparently, the slow "ineffecient" trucks get reported and receive a visit from TUV enforcers...

I've done 40 years of HGV 1, all over UK, Europe and the Near East.

First time I saw it in operation [ 2000 ] I was well pissed off, till I realised it only added around 8 mins to my journey time to Bremen...
Also saved me around 250 liters of Diesel on the round trip..
Being an Owner Operator that was a very good perk

Also other road users didn't get ticked off on two lane sections being held up by Duelling HGV's.....

 

[biggirafe]

Nope don't work like that....
Most [99.9%] of continental trucks do the 90 kmph restricted limit easily, they just joggle the cruise control...
I was in a line of at least 100 trucks all doing 90 kph for over 100 miles, so relaxing not having some silly sod taking 9 miles to overtake and pulling into service area 50 miles up the road whilst still in sight.
Some noticeably slow trucks pulled onto hard shoulder to alleviate probs, but IIRC I've only seen it personally maybe four times
Apparently, the slow "ineffecient" trucks get reported and receive a visit from TUV enforcers...

I've done 40 years of HGV 1, all over UK, Europe and the Near East.

First time I saw it in operation [ 2000 ] I was well pissed off, till I realised it only added around 8 mins to my journey time to Bremen...
Also saved me around 250 liters of Diesel on the round trip..
Being an Owner Operator that was a very good perk

Also other road users didn't get ticked off on two lane sections being held up by Duelling HGV's.....

I can see the sense on paper and I agree its a pain when 2 lorries are stuck at similar speeds but surely a better rule would be if you can't overtake within 1km then you must pull back. More difficult to enforce I guess.

I just can't see how you can make a no using lane 2 rule work sensibly, what about hills, some loaded trucks will slow down, unloaded trucks will want to fly up or again are the europeans forcing them to slow down and use more fuel, if they have added lane 3 thats great but in the uk we already have lane 3 on most motorways?

Sorry mate but when people say [99.9%] can do 90 kph easily I always wonder about the other 1%, I expect that all that has happened is that those that can't keep to the speed have started using other roads instead which is great for those on the main roads but not so good for the people who live in the villages the trucks are now driving through.

 

[lebesset]

the parking limit in france is for 3.5 tons LADEN weight
why we insist on continuing with these ridiculous unladen weights escapes me . it's left over from the days when you could legally drive vehicles over the makers design weight

 

[Deleted member 967]

I can see the sense on paper and I agree its a pain when 2 lorries are stuck at similar speeds but surely a better rule would be if you can't overtake within 1km then you must pull back. More difficult to enforce I guess.

I just can't see how you can make a no using lane 2 rule work sensibly, what about hills, some loaded trucks will slow down, unloaded trucks will want to fly up or again are the europeans forcing them to slow down and use more fuel, if they have added lane 3 thats great but in the uk we already have lane 3 on most motorways?

Sorry mate but when people say [99.9%] can do 90 kph easily I always wonder about the other 1%, I expect that all that has happened is that those that can't keep to the speed have started using other roads instead which is great for those on the main roads but not so good for the people who live in the villages the trucks are now driving through.

Two sections of the A1(M) in County Durham are having this rule imposed from about now. It has been proved in trials that overall journey times for HGVs are not reduced but other vehicles times are improved by restricting overtaking of HGVs on these sections.

I also agree that if you cannot overtake within a reasonable time/distance then you should not attempt to overtake but drop back into the nearside lane.

 

[maingate]

Hey, I am now retired.

I do not do anything fast now, those days are gone.

I still reach my destination. It is much more relaxing to drive in the slow lane. None of that constantly checking mirrors and manouvreing. Anyway, I have learned that the roads are so busy that it does not matter which lane you are in, half of the time, everyone is doing the same speed (and it is a lot lower than the proposed new limits).

I much prefer driving the m/home to a car.

 

[biggirafe]

Hey, I am now retired.

I do not do anything fast now, those days are gone.

I still reach my destination. It is much more relaxing to drive in the slow lane. None of that constantly checking mirrors and manouvreing. Anyway, I have learned that the roads are so busy that it does not matter which lane you are in, half of the time, everyone is doing the same speed (and it is a lot lower than the proposed new limits).

I much prefer driving the m/home to a car.

Your right there driving the MH is far more relaxing, When I'm in the car I'm normally working when I'm in MH I know I can't get there fast so I just relax and let it take as long as it takes.

 

[Norris]

The thing to remember is that if we allow these penpushers to bring in the laws that they think are going to benefit us, without us doing our best to prevent it, eventually we will be so regulated that we will have lost the ability to even comment on them, let alone complain, and some of the new laws are so badly drafted that they have unforeseen consequences. We should campaign as a matter of course against these changes.

 

[lebesset]

I just read the discussion document
where does it say anything about the vehicles over 3 tonne unladen weight you mention john ?

 

[Deleted member 967]

I just read the discussion document
where does it say anything about the vehicles over 3 tonne unladen weight you mention john ?

Section 4.6 of the DfT document clearly mentions dual purpose vehicles, and motorcaravans (motorhomes or campervans) exceeding 3050kg (3.05 tonnes) ex. works unladen weight are included in the scope of the changes

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/2010-06/responses.pdf

Q4: Are there any other types of vehicle that would be affected if the proposals go ahead?
A4: Yes,
Motor caravans; and,
dual purpose vehicles
where they are adapted to carry more than 8 passengers or where they weigh more than 3.05 tonnes unladen.

Q5: Why are these additional classes of vehicle included in the proposal?
A5: Because they are very similar in size and performance to the main vehicle classes we are concerned with (HGVs and PCVs) – and because they are already subject to the same speed limits as these HGVs and PCVs now.

 

[biggirafe]

The thing to remember is that if we allow these penpushers to bring in the laws that they think are going to benefit us, without us doing our best to prevent it, eventually we will be so regulated that we will have lost the ability to even comment on them, let alone complain, and some of the new laws are so badly drafted that they have unforeseen consequences. We should campaign as a matter of course against these changes.

Thats my point with the lorrys only using the inside lane idea, It seems on the face of it a good idea until you think thru all the possible problems and unworkable scenarios which Europe as usual just sweep under the carpet.

I just wish the law makers would just stop creating work for themselves and fix the mirriod of unworkable laws we already have in place.

 

[Deleted member 967]

Two sections of the A1(M) in County Durham are having this rule imposed from about now. It has been proved in trials that overall journey times for HGVs are not reduced but other vehicles times are improved by restricting overtaking of HGVs on these sections.

I also agree that if you cannot overtake within a reasonable time/distance then you should not attempt to overtake but drop back into the nearside lane.

These two sections of two lane motorway were trialed last year. The HGVs were not noticably slowed but the faster vehicles times showed a substantial improvement.

What we need are more sections of 3 lane roads for hills and other pinch points.

I can see the point of restricting overtaking where the vehicles are only going to crawl past each other.

I do not see the point in restricting a Motorhome over 3 ton ULW to 60 yet allowing a 12 metre PSV loaded with passengers and luggage weighing much more unladed to do 65. That means that a 12 metre RV which is built on a coach chassis with 2 people onboard can only do 60 where as the PSV equivalent with 70 people onboard can do 65.

At least the outside lane will not then be blocked so much by large slow vehicles allowing the light vans and cars to get to there destinations seconds before we slower restricted vehicles can, due to that lane becoming congested by vehicles braking as a result of driving up each others back ends.
I tend to drive at between 50 and 65 anyway with my outfit. I am now restricted to a 60 max because I am towing a trailer so cannot use the outside lane of a 3 lane Motorway either.

If Motorhomes are to be included they should have the same limits as the PSVs My Hymer S700 is 3400kg unladen on the weighbridge (Hymer spec 3600kg unladen max) so even if the limit was 3500kg I would be borderline anyway. Total loaded Train Wieght 5900kg or 6.5 ton imperial (5.9 metric tonne)

There is an anomaly now with newer HGV vehicles being restricted by speed limiters while older vehicles of the same size are not so restricted and are legally allowed to go faster.

 

[derekfaeberwick]

I think that the road transport industry is already heavily overburdened with legislation. It makes no sense at all for an unladen truck to be stuck behind a loaded underpowered truck for miles on end.

Were motorways not intended to increase the efficiency of commerce as well as cars?