Poor Whitby a ghost town

GMJ

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There is an element of cutting off your nose to spite your face here though isn't there? Good, free access for 6-8 months of the year for MH's is better than nothing. Also if the local area sees the benefit that comes with this access, then it may go someway to loosening the hardened opinions in the town.
 

GeoffL

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FWIW, I commented on the article linked in the OP to say that we had been planning to include Scarborough and Whitby in next Spring's tour. As I wrote, we stay away from touristy areas during the school holidays and, like many motorhomers, bestow our patronage to on these places during the off season. Our niece has moved to North of Dundee and so we're planning a three to four week round trip to visit -- up the East coast and down the West. The trip will still go ahead but, because of the reported hostility towards motorhomers, we'll bypass the area or maybe drive through for quick look. Either way, we won't be dining or shopping at local establishments -- both of which we'd have done had we been welcome and adequate overnight parking been available.
 

mistericeman

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FWIW, I commented on the article linked in the OP to say that we had been planning to include Scarborough and Whitby in next Spring's tour. As I wrote, we stay away from touristy areas during the school holidays and, like many motorhomers, bestow our patronage to on these places during the off season. Our niece has moved to North of Dundee and so we're planning a three to four week round trip to visit -- up the East coast and down the West. The trip will still go ahead but, because of the reported hostility towards motorhomers, we'll bypass the area or maybe drive through for quick look. Either way, we won't be dining or shopping at local establishments -- both of which we'd have done had we been welcome and adequate overnight parking been available.
Plenty of other spots along that coast that ARE happy to have us there....
 

maureenandtom

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Whitby Town Council have already made their view known to Scarborough Council about authorising overnight parking, Supported, as far as I remember, by the local Chamber of Commerce. http://nyenquirer.uk/wtc-pro-whitby-aire/


The caravan park owner was Councillor Andrew Backhouse – councillor serving on both Scarborough BC and the County Council. Andrew's immediate family (wife and son?) also served on, I think, Scarborough Council and Statements of Interest sometimes found that ownership of the site changed from family member to family member - belonging in one statement to his parents. The site has been sold and I think Andrew no longer has anything to do with it. So far as I know.

Maybe a bit two faced was Andrew. When motorhomers' proposals were accepted by a full meeting of Scarbrough Borough Council for permitted overnght parking Andrew was the cabinet holder for such matters and he stated to the press that he fully supported the proposals. However, Andrew, it was, who proposed the original restrictions in Scarborough – when restrictions in Whitby were discussed.

2021-11-23_164625.jpg

Obtained under the FoI but probably by accident - it was among a bundle of emails mostly unrelated to the original question. Nick West was not a councillor. An employee managing part of Whitby for traffic matters. Joe Plant, in another email asked Nick West to look at any ways of implementing probition without going through the TRO procedure.

2021-11-23_170812.jpg


Almost immediately after the full council approved permitted parking on five car parks he resigned as Cabinet Holder and was replaced by Councillor Penny Marsden. Penny immediately overruled the full council and the proposed aires folded. She said she thought there might be planning objections. There weren't. But the aires' proposal never resurfaced.

There is no local opposition in Whitby. The last time I asked about hundreds of complaints claimed by SBC there were only two. Permitted overnight parking is supported by Whitby Council; it''s Scarborough Council that needs to be convinced - as it once was. Penny Marsden put a stop to it when Andrew Backhouse resigned.
 
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Fisherman

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tt
Whitby Town Council have already made their view known to Scarborough Council about authorising overnight parking, Supported, as far as I remember, by the local Chamber of Commerce. http://nyenquirer.uk/wtc-pro-whitby-aire/


The caravan park owner was Councillor Andrew Backhouse – councillor serving on both Scarborough BC and the County Council. Andrew's immediate family (wife and son?) also served on, I think, Scarborough Council and Statements of Interest sometimes found that ownership of the site changed from family member to family member - belonging in one statement to his parents. The site has been sold and I think Andrew no longer has anything to do with it. So far as I know.

Maybe a bit two faced was Andrew. When motorhomers' proposals were accepted by a full meeting of Scarbrough Borough Council for permitted overnght parking Andrew was the cabinet holder for such matters and he stated to the press that he fully supported the proposals. However, Andrew, it was, who proposed the original restrictions in Scarborough – when restrictions in Whitby were discussed.

View attachment 103742
Obtained under the FoI but probably by accident - it was among a bundle of emails mostly unrelated to the original question. Nick West was not a councillor. An employee managing part of Whitby for traffic matters. Joe Plant, in another email asked Nick West to look at any ways of implementing probition without going through the TRO procedure.

View attachment 103747

Almost immediately after the full council approved permitted parking on five car parks he resigned as Cabinet Holder and was replaced by Councillor Penny Marsden. Penny immediately overruled the full council and the proposed aires folded. She said she thought there might be planning objections. There weren't. But the aires' proposal never resurfaced.

There is no local opposition in Whitby. The last time I asked about hundreds of complaints claimed by SBC there were only two. Permitted overnight parking is supported by Whitby Council; it''s Scarborough Council that needs to be convinced - as it once was. Penny Marsden put a stop to it when Andrew Backhouse resigned.
Right now we have a situation involving MPs lobbying for private companies they are salaried to, and therefore have outside interests. To my way of thinking this type of behaviour is exactly the same. We have councillors who own campsites preventing overnight parking so as to improve their business interests. Any decisions that a councillor takes should be made purely in the interests of their constituents, and not to line their pockets. This kind of skulduggery must be looked into. Councillors should be made to register any interest they have when voting on something that affects them personally. They should be prevented from voting on such issues.
 

Val54

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tt

Right now we have a situation involving MPs lobbying for private companies they are salaried to, and therefore have outside interests. To my way of thinking this type of behaviour is exactly the same. We have councillors who own campsites preventing overnight parking so as to improve their business interests. Any decisions that a councillor takes should be made purely in the interests of their constituents, and not to line their pockets. This kind of skulduggery must be looked into. Councillors should be made to register any interest they have when voting on something that affects them personally. They should be prevented from voting on such issues.
Declarations of interest already have to be made by councillors in local government. They are split into pecuniary and non-pecuniary interests. A pecuniary interest normally precludes a councillor from voting on a matter where that financial interest may be relevant. Non-pecuniary interests usually allow the councillor to vote. However, it is a matter for the individual councillor to decide whether his/her interests fall into either category. In my experience, many councillors seek legal advice from the Council's solicitor as to their position, but as with all things, there are some who don't!!
 

Fisherman

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Declarations of interest already have to be made by councillors in local government. They are split into pecuniary and non-pecuniary interests. A pecuniary interest normally precludes a councillor from voting on a matter where that financial interest may be relevant. Non-pecuniary interests usually allow the councillor to vote. However, it is a matter for the individual councillor to decide whether his/her interests fall into either category. In my experience, many councillors seek legal advice from the Council's solicitor as to their position, but as with all things, there are some who don't!!
Hi Val, well it seems to me this needs looking into then.
Clearly a councillor who owns or is financially linked to a camp site has a clear pecuniary interest and should be prevented from voting in such circumstances. I would even go further and state that they should have no input whatsoever.
IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.
 

Val54

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Hi Val, well it seems to me this needs looking into then.
Clearly a councillor who owns or is financially linked to a camp site has a clear pecuniary interest and should be prevented from voting in such circumstances. I would even go further and state that they should have no input whatsoever.
IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.
Agreed, and using your example, the councillor would be expected to leave the committee room so as not to "openly" influence the discussion/vote by gestures, passing of notes etc.
 

Robmac

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IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.

A farmer/councillor in our village did exactly that Bill and was kicked off of the council when a few from the village complained that he had an interest.

A couple of years down the line he is back on the council and his mates have made sure that he has now got the permission even though he could not take part in the decision.

They are also building a new railway line close to our village. We were shown 3 options - they have now chosen the most expensive and disruptive option to go ahead. Guess which farmers land it will be going through and guess who will make millions out of it? What makes things worse is that the council will not justify why they are taking that route.
 

Fisherman

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Agreed, and using your example, the councillor would be expected to leave the committee room so as not to "openly" influence the discussion/vote by gestures, passing of notes etc.
And that’s exactly what a campsite owner should do in these circumstances.
And I take note of “openly”, and there’s the rub.
Even if they were prevented from voting they could influence the decision without voting.:confused:
 
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Fisherman

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A farmer/councillor in our village did exactly that Bill and was kicked off of the council when a few from the village complained that he had an interest.

A couple of years down the line he is back on the council and his mates have made sure that he has now got the permission even though he could not take part in the decision.

They are also building a new railway line close to our village. We were shown 3 options - they have now chosen the most expensive and disruptive option to go ahead. Guess which farmers land it will be going through and guess who will make millions out of it? What makes things worse is that the council will not justify why they are taking that route.
And Bojo tells us we are not living in a corrupt country. :mad:
 

kensowerby

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As long as you have Scarborough council dictating terms for Whitby nothing will change, Scarborough don't want camper vans only to suit themselves when money is short in the winter months.
I live 35 miles away and with there attitude sod em I spend my money where I'm wanted.
I have a sledge hammer just like them TWO FACED
 

alcam

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Trouble is, even if they could be reasoned with in winter, soon as the sun comes back out we're once again surplus to requirements....
Really don't have a problem with this , quite common in France too . A restaurant may do a special offer on a Tuesday , you wouldn't expect them to do the same on a Saturday night would you ?
Having said all that there is space in Whitby carparks to accomodate us most of the time . Haven't been for a few years but would happily return . In my experience it is not the people [or publicans/cafe owners] who don't want us . It is a couple of local councillors . Why would you stop going somewhere you like because of people like that ?
 

Fisherman

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Really don't have a problem with this , quite common in France too . A restaurant may do a special offer on a Tuesday , you wouldn't expect them to do the same on a Saturday night would you ?
Having said all that there is space in Whitby carparks to accomodate us most of the time . Haven't been for a few years but would happily return . In my experience it is not the people [or publicans/cafe owners] who don't want us . It is a couple of local councillors . Why would you stop going somewhere you like because of people like that ?
There’s a massive difference between a privately owned restaurant taking commercial decisions to help make their business viable, and a public body creating rules in order to line the pockets of some who run said public body.
As you quite rightly pointed out Alcam, there is plenty of space in Whitby carparks.
If as some on here have stated that there is a clear conflict of interest involving decision makers, there may even be legal arguments against what’s going on in Whitby.
Also currently overnight parking in Whitby is illegal, and would incur penalty charges. I think that’s what is stopping parking in Whitby, and until this changes then parking there is not feasible. If the council at some point in the future do allow parking outwith the high season, then it’s up to each individual as to what they would do, but there are plenty of other places to visit that don’t restrict us, I would rather take my money there, but that’s just my choice.
 

Fisherman

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I am sure I remember Tom posting on Whitby a while back.
If I am correct Tom stated that amongst other reasons given for us not being welcome in Scarborough and Whitby were the usual anecdotal references to litter, inappropriate dumping of chemical waste, selfish parking, and so on. Now if these assertions were true, why would they stop in winter months. After all cassettes need emptying in winter, and we can still create litter.:unsure:
The only difference I see is that campsites are normally closed in winter months.:);)

I seem to remember our dearly departed old friend Andrew (Channa) making the same points.
 
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alcam

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There’s a massive difference between a privately owned restaurant taking commercial decisions to help make their business viable, and a public body creating rules in order to line the pockets of some who run said public body.
Not really . I was speaking generally and it is basic supply and demand . Whether for commercial reasons or lack of space it is the same principle
France is often quoted as the benchmark for how to deal with motorhomes . Many of the hotspots there have restrictions in high season
 

Fisherman

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Not really . I was speaking generally and it is basic supply and demand . Whether for commercial reasons or lack of space it is the same principle
France is often quoted as the benchmark for how to deal with motorhomes . Many of the hotspots there have restrictions in high season
Alcam, it's been reported on here that two members of the council own caravan parks.
Also I was there when it was heaving, and there was lots of empty spaces in carparks, one on the higher level was completely empty.
Also the reasons given for banning us include anecdotal reports of improper disposal of chemical waste, litter, and selfish parking.
All of the above are non seasonal if correct.
For these reasons it would be difficult for the council to do a u turn on winter parking, but who knows.
But if they did, it would make a mockery of said anecdotal evidence.
But as you were speaking generally, I would have to agree, but not specifically here.
 
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