Deleted member 24143
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If anyone is going to complain about this to the council remember it is East Lindsey District Council not Lincolnshire County Council.
Plan to ban coastal camping in Lincolnshire
- Thread starter scampa
- Start date
Randonneur
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Don't see why anybody would want to complain. The guy is providing a useful service to the day trippers and fishermen, the nearest catering and cafes are either Sandilands or Anderby Creek so he's not treading on anyone's toes so to speak.
Anyway he's been there that long he's part of the furniture!
tanera
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The negative feelings against motorhomers has been around for years. I too was one of the protesters until joining the ranks last year.
Here in West Scotland the main complaint is "What do they give to the local economy"
"They fill up the provisions in Sainsburys, wear out our roads, dump their waste and toilets in ditches and spend bugger all locally" is a typical refrain. Indeed contributors to this forum add fuel to these complaints- boasting as we do how little we spend. In 2011 a motorhomer was overheard on the car ferry Hebrides- Tarbert Harris to Uig Skye boasting that in two weeks he had only spent £17 in the Western Isles.
In my home village- Dunvegan are excellent shops- a Greengrocer who's stock level would shame many a supermarket, a "mini market" open long hours selling produce at a reasonable price (to me), a baker, filling station and cafe all providing local employment. Profits stay in this community- unlike Sainsburys, Tescos etc. but still we hear complaints from tourists about high prices charged by these shops. Welcome to my world- it's an expensive place to live. To continue in business these local businesses need tourist support. In Skye, In Western Isles, in Lincolnshire, in Cornwall, wherever- tourism is important.
Residents of these rural areas will bend the ears of their councillors, so will businesses, camp site owners in particular. If the residents do not feel they are getting value for money in the spending habits of a sector of the tourist industry then they will complain and contributors to this forum are our own worst enemy.
We need to rethink our profile.
Encourage councils to provide Aires, 3m wide bays to cram us together, EHU with expensive £1 pay meters, waste disposal and a fee of £5-£8 per night. This to make the campsites look economically attractive (yes I know the forum is called wild camping). The campsites pay a part in the economy too- Nice showers, washing facilities room to swing cats inside awnings etc.
Above all stop boasting about free loading, you like the wild places- support their local economies, If no one lived here would you get diesel? health cover? fresh veg? Pubs? ferries. Spend money- buy a coffee, pint, unheard of local paper, fresh bread. If we do this we can raise our popularity profile and may find less height restrictions or boulders across laybys and maybe- just maybe the councillors may welcome us and start to provide Aires.
Here in West Scotland the main complaint is "What do they give to the local economy"
"They fill up the provisions in Sainsburys, wear out our roads, dump their waste and toilets in ditches and spend bugger all locally" is a typical refrain. Indeed contributors to this forum add fuel to these complaints- boasting as we do how little we spend. In 2011 a motorhomer was overheard on the car ferry Hebrides- Tarbert Harris to Uig Skye boasting that in two weeks he had only spent £17 in the Western Isles.
In my home village- Dunvegan are excellent shops- a Greengrocer who's stock level would shame many a supermarket, a "mini market" open long hours selling produce at a reasonable price (to me), a baker, filling station and cafe all providing local employment. Profits stay in this community- unlike Sainsburys, Tescos etc. but still we hear complaints from tourists about high prices charged by these shops. Welcome to my world- it's an expensive place to live. To continue in business these local businesses need tourist support. In Skye, In Western Isles, in Lincolnshire, in Cornwall, wherever- tourism is important.
Residents of these rural areas will bend the ears of their councillors, so will businesses, camp site owners in particular. If the residents do not feel they are getting value for money in the spending habits of a sector of the tourist industry then they will complain and contributors to this forum are our own worst enemy.
We need to rethink our profile.
Encourage councils to provide Aires, 3m wide bays to cram us together, EHU with expensive £1 pay meters, waste disposal and a fee of £5-£8 per night. This to make the campsites look economically attractive (yes I know the forum is called wild camping). The campsites pay a part in the economy too- Nice showers, washing facilities room to swing cats inside awnings etc.
Above all stop boasting about free loading, you like the wild places- support their local economies, If no one lived here would you get diesel? health cover? fresh veg? Pubs? ferries. Spend money- buy a coffee, pint, unheard of local paper, fresh bread. If we do this we can raise our popularity profile and may find less height restrictions or boulders across laybys and maybe- just maybe the councillors may welcome us and start to provide Aires.
maingate
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That is good advice you have given but have you done anything yourself in that direction?
Some of us have and I would be pleased if you can keep us up to date with your progress.
scampa
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Good post Tanera, worthy of a thread of it's own, though I think a lot of the points have been mentioned at times in the past.
I try to be conscious of the locals when I park up anywhere, and I find that using the smaller shops and local services actually adds to the interest for me. I have many happy memories of the characters I've met and some of the info I've learned in village shops in various places, including the store in Dunvegan last year!
Incidentally, I remember driving around some remote settlements on Scotlands' north and north-west coasts last Autumn, where I kept crossing paths with a Tesco Home-Delivery van (from the Thurso store, I presumed). I remember thinking how convenient that must be for the locals, and probably cheaper than using the friendly local shops at Tongue or Durness where I had called. With all due respect, those same locals might well protest about any passing tourists not using their village shops or facilities as they pass by?
I will admit that I'm not a great customer for campsites though. My style of wilding is to park up somewhere by myself last thing at night, then move on first thing in the morning. It would be a waste of time and money for me to use campsites, as well as very inconvenient, but I'm sure they get custom from other people with caravans, families, or with different needs to my own.
I don't "boast" about not using campsites, but as I've said, for me personally they are neither necessary nor convenient.
I can understand why you might have been one of the protesters until you became a wildcamper yourself, but has it made you feel awkward now with your neighbours, or do you find that you have new insights that you can share with them?
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sean rua
Guest
A very good post from Tanera, imo!
I think you have highlighted the crux of the matter.
In my opinion, it is a Catch22 situation: the beloved and long- sought- after Aires that everybody talks about - good as they may be - would, if ever installed,
just ruin and destroy the plus points of the very places folk want to use for wildcamping!
Self-defeating, really, like so many of the tinkerings in life. We may mean well, but the net result is poor. and often, the "medicine" is more harmful than the illness.
In the travelling world, we've seen this with the sites "they" give us: with the good old halting places barred up or destroyed, the official ghettos, "they "are forced to grudgingly provide, are little better than army camps or prisons. We get forced to live in grids behind fences, which doesn't really suit.
This is what generally happens when red-tape and bureaucracy step in. They may mean well, but the results leave a lot to be desired.
Imo, you will lose more than you gain - even if your wishes are granted by the councils. These losses included the intangibles and "feel-good factors" that can never be written on some cash balance sheet.
Anyway, good luck with all your wild-camping, and, perhaps I shall be proven wrong in time. I hope so, but I don't think so, sadly.
sean rua.
I think you have highlighted the crux of the matter.
In my opinion, it is a Catch22 situation: the beloved and long- sought- after Aires that everybody talks about - good as they may be - would, if ever installed,
just ruin and destroy the plus points of the very places folk want to use for wildcamping!
Self-defeating, really, like so many of the tinkerings in life. We may mean well, but the net result is poor. and often, the "medicine" is more harmful than the illness.
In the travelling world, we've seen this with the sites "they" give us: with the good old halting places barred up or destroyed, the official ghettos, "they "are forced to grudgingly provide, are little better than army camps or prisons. We get forced to live in grids behind fences, which doesn't really suit.
This is what generally happens when red-tape and bureaucracy step in. They may mean well, but the results leave a lot to be desired.
Imo, you will lose more than you gain - even if your wishes are granted by the councils. These losses included the intangibles and "feel-good factors" that can never be written on some cash balance sheet.
Anyway, good luck with all your wild-camping, and, perhaps I shall be proven wrong in time. I hope so, but I don't think so, sadly.
sean rua.
cathobo
Guest
Wild Camping at Huttoft, Moggs Eye etc.
As a frequent wild camper at Huttoft and Moggs eye near Skegness I am appalled by the situation that has arose regarding height barriers and abuse hurled at motor caravaners by local people from the surrounding district. Let us first consider this 2 height barriers had been erected at Moggs Eye both had to be dismantled, last was dismantled because heavy machinery could not access the beach for sea defense work. How can emergency vehicles access the beach if barrier are erected, if death occurs as a result could Lincolnshire County Council be sued for manslaughter?
In 1953 a storm tide killed more than 300 people hence the beaches are replenished with sand at a cost of £72 million pounds over ten years paid for by the Environment Agency subsidized by the Government. As tax payers I think motor caravaners should not be restricted from beaches that are paid for by Government.
Ref. Skegness Standard date 13/04/2013 article by M Gabbitas "funding will run out by 2015" so it will be more difficult to fund dredging beach replenishment if any visitor is rejected.
In March 2013 there were no fewer than 45 cars dug out of deep sand drifts including 4 persons in a small car found on Huttoft car terrace stuck in sand between 1am and 9am.
If motor caravaners had not been there an emergency could have developed, note a strong easterly off shore wind was blowing with a tide height 7.1m. So we are going to have height barriers to reduce rubbish caused by wild campers and increase tourism. Consider this: Height restrictions apply so no ice cream vans, no refuse collection trucks, no RAC,AA or Green Flag trucks. There may also be dead seals on the beach, there are no Lifeguards, the coast guard phones have been disconnected. Evidence suggests height barriers are not the solution but it will prove wild campers are not the culprits for any vandalism or litter.
It does not bother me to visit Skegness there are plenty of other places to visit but I feel sorry for people that are on low incomes and wild camp because they cannot afford the extortionate prices charged by campsites. Please note I say extortionate relative to low income.
I could chat on but I would like to hear your views on this matter.
As a frequent wild camper at Huttoft and Moggs eye near Skegness I am appalled by the situation that has arose regarding height barriers and abuse hurled at motor caravaners by local people from the surrounding district. Let us first consider this 2 height barriers had been erected at Moggs Eye both had to be dismantled, last was dismantled because heavy machinery could not access the beach for sea defense work. How can emergency vehicles access the beach if barrier are erected, if death occurs as a result could Lincolnshire County Council be sued for manslaughter?
In 1953 a storm tide killed more than 300 people hence the beaches are replenished with sand at a cost of £72 million pounds over ten years paid for by the Environment Agency subsidized by the Government. As tax payers I think motor caravaners should not be restricted from beaches that are paid for by Government.
Ref. Skegness Standard date 13/04/2013 article by M Gabbitas "funding will run out by 2015" so it will be more difficult to fund dredging beach replenishment if any visitor is rejected.
In March 2013 there were no fewer than 45 cars dug out of deep sand drifts including 4 persons in a small car found on Huttoft car terrace stuck in sand between 1am and 9am.
If motor caravaners had not been there an emergency could have developed, note a strong easterly off shore wind was blowing with a tide height 7.1m. So we are going to have height barriers to reduce rubbish caused by wild campers and increase tourism. Consider this: Height restrictions apply so no ice cream vans, no refuse collection trucks, no RAC,AA or Green Flag trucks. There may also be dead seals on the beach, there are no Lifeguards, the coast guard phones have been disconnected. Evidence suggests height barriers are not the solution but it will prove wild campers are not the culprits for any vandalism or litter.
It does not bother me to visit Skegness there are plenty of other places to visit but I feel sorry for people that are on low incomes and wild camp because they cannot afford the extortionate prices charged by campsites. Please note I say extortionate relative to low income.
I could chat on but I would like to hear your views on this matter.
Aspire255
Guest
Wouldn’t the emergency services as well as the council services have a key to unlock the height barriers? As well as the ice cream man, the mushy pea seller and the Black pudding vendor?
Personally the only rubbish I’ve seen and I’m not a regular has been around the rubbish bins when they have been overflowing.
On my very first visit I picked up a piece of carpet that had been used by another M/H for a welcome mat , I used it for the same purpose until I left leaving it for someone else to make use of.
The only mess I might leave behind is the unwanted dog kibbles from out of my dogs bowl, they of course get picked up and eaten by the sea gulls.
Aspire255
Personally the only rubbish I’ve seen and I’m not a regular has been around the rubbish bins when they have been overflowing.
On my very first visit I picked up a piece of carpet that had been used by another M/H for a welcome mat , I used it for the same purpose until I left leaving it for someone else to make use of.
The only mess I might leave behind is the unwanted dog kibbles from out of my dogs bowl, they of course get picked up and eaten by the sea gulls.
Aspire255
maingate
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Welcome to the forum cathobo and a very good first post.
Some of what you said has been said before on similar threads but there is some valuable extra info that you have added.
Yes, it is a very frustrating situation but most of us who have used the place will blame its loss on a small local minority and the local Council. I personally will boycott the area and they will never get a penny of my hard earned. The same applies to Whitby and Scarborough.
Some of what you said has been said before on similar threads but there is some valuable extra info that you have added.
Yes, it is a very frustrating situation but most of us who have used the place will blame its loss on a small local minority and the local Council. I personally will boycott the area and they will never get a penny of my hard earned. The same applies to Whitby and Scarborough.
Deleted member 13867
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What does annoy us about height barriers is not the fact i cannot sneak in and spend the night in an urban car park because i have no desire to overnight in these places (however i do not class Huttoft or similar areas as car parks) it is the fact that towns and areas all over the country are becoming run down, buildings and business's boarded up due to lack of incoming money from tourists and visitors. So we law abiding tax paying motor-home owners who wish to visit a town during the day to park up and do some shopping and have a drink before returning to our spot for the night can't do it because we can't find a blooming car park that we can get into, so we tour slowly around fail to find anywhere to park and then decide the only option is to call into Tesco/Asda stock up and go elsewhere no wonder the shortsighted towns of this country are closing down. Don't these short sighted people (both locals and councils) realise that most motor-home users are responsible older people who will not cause trouble but more likely to prevent trouble by being there as watchfull eyes and ears. However these same people who like to prevent us from parking will welcome with open arms the tour bus carrying pensioners who's only contribution to the local economy is to but a pot of tea with four cups, well we are touring only not on a bus whats the difference? And as for height barriers being locked and 'someone' having a key when the s**t hits the fan and the emergency services need to get through the barriers quick they wont wait for a key if one could ever be found they will get through with a 'universal key'
I would like to say rant over but its only over for now.
Dave
I would like to say rant over but its only over for now.
Dave
Deleted member 3802
Guest
As I have said many times before we have used all the beaches between skegveges and mablethorpe since the 70's and I honestly believe it's only the advertising they have had on here "and i am guiltier than most" over the past 2/3 yrs that as made them so popular??
Another scenario though is just on bank lane and jolly common lane are lots of good camp sites now if I stayed on them and payed good money for the privilege I could still not drive on to the beaches in the day this is wrong they should by law be accessible to all between dusk and dawn at least there can be no legal argument against this surely .
Another scenario though is just on bank lane and jolly common lane are lots of good camp sites now if I stayed on them and payed good money for the privilege I could still not drive on to the beaches in the day this is wrong they should by law be accessible to all between dusk and dawn at least there can be no legal argument against this surely .
landyrubbertramp
Guest
re keys to hoght barriers
most cuncils have one type of keys that covers most lockd from hirgy barrier to park gates church yard gates etc and the emergency services like fire have a copy but i have know where amublances services that merge have not been given the right key or have 3 or 4 keys to cover numerous council areas and aot of police cars i have ound do not have them so the larger vehicles like riot vans that are doubled up for ploce cars have had trouble well in my area anyway i now this as i have such a key to do community activities in local parks.
hope this helps.
re hight barries
i thought the eu had said that they were unlawful as it discrinated road users . as if thier is not tech reason i.e bridge weight plg vehicls have the same rights. unless bi laws superseed i dont know.
most cuncils have one type of keys that covers most lockd from hirgy barrier to park gates church yard gates etc and the emergency services like fire have a copy but i have know where amublances services that merge have not been given the right key or have 3 or 4 keys to cover numerous council areas and aot of police cars i have ound do not have them so the larger vehicles like riot vans that are doubled up for ploce cars have had trouble well in my area anyway i now this as i have such a key to do community activities in local parks.
hope this helps.
re hight barries
i thought the eu had said that they were unlawful as it discrinated road users . as if thier is not tech reason i.e bridge weight plg vehicls have the same rights. unless bi laws superseed i dont know.
jennyp19
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That's interesting
scampa
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For those of you who are interested, I've found a few follow up letters on the local papers' website since the article in the OP first appeared....
Height restrictions cutting off a good source of income
Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 07:00
.
RE your front page in the East Lindsey Target, April 10. The reason why you have camper vans parking overnight at Huttoft Car Terrace is economical.
They cannot afford the prices at local camp sites. They do, however, spend money in local shops and garages.
If you ban them you send them away elsewhere.
The article implied that the campers where also responsible for the condition of the local toilets. Why should these people "destroy" the facilities they need the most? These toilets in the car parks are well used and inadequate for the number of visitors using them.
Litter bins overflowing.
Solution – get more litter bins and empty them more often, especially after a bank holiday.
Closing the car parks overnight. What about the number of sea anglers who fish the area overnight. Where are they going to park their cars?
I urge the local council not to repeat the mistake of other councils who ban camper vans, large vans and people carriers from using our local car parks by putting up height barriers. As they found out in North Wales, such actions sent visitors elsewhere. Thus a loss of income in local shops and garages (even camper vans need to fill up).
The last paragraph stated that the ban "should have a positive effect on the local area, there will be less demand on local amenties like bins and toilets at the car parks and local campsites should benefit from increased trade too" – I think the opposite is true. If you don't make visitors welcome then they will not come. Put off visitors equals no income, no profit and no jobs. I say to the councils involved improve local amenties, more litter bins, more collections, better toilets and welcome visitors, camper vans etc. A more positive way of boosting tourism.
(Authors name removed, Anderby Creek)
Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed
Wednesday, May 01, 2013
WITH reference to camper vans at coastal car parks. The main problem is not the day trippers it's the permanent residents who blatantly flaunt the law and as such ruin it for genuine visitors.
There are vehicles currently on the terrace who have no insurance and several who have not had road tax for nine years, six years and two years.
There is rubbish everywhere, the toilets are disgusting because these people abuse the facilities even filling water butts from the toilets.
They contribute nothing but take what they can.
The terrace is an eyesore because of these people and at such a time when we are supposed to be promoting it and the country park, I would encourage you to come and visit the terrace and judge for yourself.
I for one am in total support for the height restrictions and the introduction of the new bylaw to move these people on and hope that it will be closely liaised with the police so that several of these unroadworthy vehicles will be seized and crushed.
(Authors name removed, Huttoft Bank)
Read more: Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed | This is Lincolnshire
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Area degraded by the motorhome invasion
Wednesday, May 01, 2013
MAY I be permitted to reply to the misguided opinions/suggestions expressed by Messrs Whalley, Watkinson and Snape on the subject of motorhome accommodation.
The Moggs Eye/Marsh Yard area has been degraded over the years by the invasion of the motorhome fraternity.
There are a minority of responsible motor-home owners who have frequented the Moggs Eye & Marsh Yard area but, in my long experience, the majority have shown themselves to be most irresponsible.
No they don't break equipment in toilet blocks during summer months, toilet blocks are a source of an unlimited supply of free, to them, water.
.
Add to this free parking for as long as they want, free rubbish collection from the ground (not in the bins) where they dump it, vandalism of the fencing, picnic benches and tables chopped up for firewood, the threats and intimidation when anyone who lives locally has objected to them destroying the facilities and desecrating the area.
Chemical toilets are emptied on the sand dunes, where people and animals can walk into the filth hidden by the undergrowth, and in the dykes surrounding the area.
The contents of their waste water tanks and drains from sinks and showers are released straight onto the ground under the parked motor-home.
Finally, the car parks are NOT closed at night, sea anglers and the like have no restrictions placed on parking unless the vehicle is over 6.4 metres high.
If your correspondents want the type of motor-home dweller I have experienced in their area then I suggest they open up their gardens and driveways to allow the free parking and facilities required by the motor-home owners.
Good work Lincolnshire County Council, it's not before time.
If people want to camp in the area then let them pay for it and if they don't, let's see the new bye-laws used to their full extent.
(Authors name removed, Sandilands)
Read more: Area degraded by the motorhome invasion | This is Lincolnshire
Height restrictions cutting off a good source of income
Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 07:00
.
RE your front page in the East Lindsey Target, April 10. The reason why you have camper vans parking overnight at Huttoft Car Terrace is economical.
They cannot afford the prices at local camp sites. They do, however, spend money in local shops and garages.
If you ban them you send them away elsewhere.
The article implied that the campers where also responsible for the condition of the local toilets. Why should these people "destroy" the facilities they need the most? These toilets in the car parks are well used and inadequate for the number of visitors using them.
Litter bins overflowing.
Solution – get more litter bins and empty them more often, especially after a bank holiday.
Closing the car parks overnight. What about the number of sea anglers who fish the area overnight. Where are they going to park their cars?
I urge the local council not to repeat the mistake of other councils who ban camper vans, large vans and people carriers from using our local car parks by putting up height barriers. As they found out in North Wales, such actions sent visitors elsewhere. Thus a loss of income in local shops and garages (even camper vans need to fill up).
The last paragraph stated that the ban "should have a positive effect on the local area, there will be less demand on local amenties like bins and toilets at the car parks and local campsites should benefit from increased trade too" – I think the opposite is true. If you don't make visitors welcome then they will not come. Put off visitors equals no income, no profit and no jobs. I say to the councils involved improve local amenties, more litter bins, more collections, better toilets and welcome visitors, camper vans etc. A more positive way of boosting tourism.
(Authors name removed, Anderby Creek)
Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed
Wednesday, May 01, 2013
WITH reference to camper vans at coastal car parks. The main problem is not the day trippers it's the permanent residents who blatantly flaunt the law and as such ruin it for genuine visitors.
There are vehicles currently on the terrace who have no insurance and several who have not had road tax for nine years, six years and two years.
There is rubbish everywhere, the toilets are disgusting because these people abuse the facilities even filling water butts from the toilets.
They contribute nothing but take what they can.
The terrace is an eyesore because of these people and at such a time when we are supposed to be promoting it and the country park, I would encourage you to come and visit the terrace and judge for yourself.
I for one am in total support for the height restrictions and the introduction of the new bylaw to move these people on and hope that it will be closely liaised with the police so that several of these unroadworthy vehicles will be seized and crushed.
(Authors name removed, Huttoft Bank)
Read more: Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed | This is Lincolnshire
Follow us: @ThisisLincs on Twitter | ThisisLincolnshire on Facebook
Area degraded by the motorhome invasion
Wednesday, May 01, 2013
MAY I be permitted to reply to the misguided opinions/suggestions expressed by Messrs Whalley, Watkinson and Snape on the subject of motorhome accommodation.
The Moggs Eye/Marsh Yard area has been degraded over the years by the invasion of the motorhome fraternity.
There are a minority of responsible motor-home owners who have frequented the Moggs Eye & Marsh Yard area but, in my long experience, the majority have shown themselves to be most irresponsible.
No they don't break equipment in toilet blocks during summer months, toilet blocks are a source of an unlimited supply of free, to them, water.
.
Add to this free parking for as long as they want, free rubbish collection from the ground (not in the bins) where they dump it, vandalism of the fencing, picnic benches and tables chopped up for firewood, the threats and intimidation when anyone who lives locally has objected to them destroying the facilities and desecrating the area.
Chemical toilets are emptied on the sand dunes, where people and animals can walk into the filth hidden by the undergrowth, and in the dykes surrounding the area.
The contents of their waste water tanks and drains from sinks and showers are released straight onto the ground under the parked motor-home.
Finally, the car parks are NOT closed at night, sea anglers and the like have no restrictions placed on parking unless the vehicle is over 6.4 metres high.
If your correspondents want the type of motor-home dweller I have experienced in their area then I suggest they open up their gardens and driveways to allow the free parking and facilities required by the motor-home owners.
Good work Lincolnshire County Council, it's not before time.
If people want to camp in the area then let them pay for it and if they don't, let's see the new bye-laws used to their full extent.
(Authors name removed, Sandilands)
Read more: Area degraded by the motorhome invasion | This is Lincolnshire
landyrubbertramp
Guest
in the minds of a council thier way forard of self policing is height barriers, preeety cheap to install if you break it down over 10 years no staff needed no parking meters needed etc. is staright forward t them get under the barrier your fine if nit tough. so if you in a smallcar type camper ith pop top you will be classed as ok in the eyes of the council regardless of of how untidy oou are but if you in a big m home tough, i for my slef whenthinking ow to increase the height of my landrover so i can stand up think pop top or high hard top , the later meaning i wont get under a hight barrier, hard to meand i can store more stuff difficult descion, if i soent most of the time in the uk id g for a pop top to get round this prob with barriers but as im planing n spending more time in spain here i have yet to see a hight barrier its a high hard top all the way. i think we will jsut have to adapt ourselves and vehciles around councils and not the other way round in the future sad but i think true.
landyrubbertramp
Guest
i know i have spent alot of time in the third sector (community)wth councils so i know how they think, also remebr coucnils are looking to do less due to a number of factors i,e money and slimming don thier operations. also govermnt re looking to do less,r fromthe railways to puting the canals from british waterways to a trust, it saves them money ad they dont have to be accountable to it. in the future evering that no essential in the eyes of a council from parks tolesiure centres will be ran by trusts the third sectors or partnership.. think of it in terms of the national trust its a seprwate thing to the councul and thefor they can charge what they want, i can see in the futre trustbtaking over alot of costal parking sites, you see trusts can raise money i e lottery funding etc tax rebates etc that counculs carnt, this could be a good thing but it also could be a bad thing depending on how you camp etc. at the end of the day we can all do what we want if money was not an issuie. i for one dont mind paying for alot ofthings but what id ont like is when im being exploited thier is a diffrenace. we i,e my gf and her lad went to conway casslte on sunday we went for a bike ride but as soon as the 5 year old saw the castle that was that it was 4ish it closed at 5 ive never been before so i dint know what to expect, we paid for two adults and 1 child 17 sumthing pound for less than one hour and to be hoest apert from a wooden statura and a projectore in a room it was just a riund castle, yes yes i know i dint have to go and i could have =gone earluer but i just think that was expenses, how ppl on lowincomw could ever go i dont know. it was empty why couldnt they just charge half price after all in a fect is subside in the first place, as we walk out they make sure you walk out to go threw ther shop and put things as low as possible for kids they were selling swords two pices of bolsa wood with a stable and a small ribbo not more than 18iches high for 5 pounds we didnt ave one of course but its a rip off i i told them so . rant over