Petition: Amend PCSC Bill to withdraw power to seize vehicles used as mobile homes

[Deleted member 85077]

Hi Guys, I know this is aimed at travellers, both new age and gypsy, however we occasional wild campers will be tared with the same brush.
Have a look at the website below, or don't I cant tell you what to do.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-bill-2021-unauthorised-encampments-factsheet

If you want to sign the petition then follow this link: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/583903

 

[Fisherman]

Done.

 

[Debroos]

Done

 

[st3v3]

This isn't going to be used against us. It may even have a positive impact as height barriers etc. are not required if travellers can be quickly evicted.

 

[GeoffL]

This isn't going to be used against us. It may even have a positive impact as height barriers etc. are not required if travellers can be quickly evicted.

My thoughts exactly. ATM, councils and landowners are making life as difficult as possible for motorhomers and van lifers and I suspect this is because it's so difficult to get belligerent traveller mobs to move without going through the courts and turning up with an eviction order, bailiffs and the police. Having the right to just tell people to move on and for that to be quickly enforceable could be to our advantage. With that to hand, they may be more amenable to courteous wild campers.

 

[jacquigem]

Yes for me the phrase fails to leave when asked by landowner is important. I have never wanted to stop if landowner against me doing so.

 

[colinm]

The offence will be committed if a person who resides or intends to reside with a vehicle on land fails to leave the land or remove their property without reasonable excuse when asked to do so by the occupier of the land, their representative or a constable and they have caused, or are likely to cause, significant damage, disruption, or distress (including anti-social behaviour).

If the law does this it gets my wholehearted approval.
GF took the youngest to her swimming lesson last Thursday, the carpark for pool had been taken over.

 

[The Jacks]

Done

 

[Fisherman]

I agree that currently this law is not directed towards us.
But reading some of the posts on this thread they could have been directed at us by others who seem to despise us.
We have been accused of taking over carparks, I witnessed such a thing only last month in Elie, Fife.
If this law goes through and is used on the travellers, there are narrow minded NIMBYS with the attention span of a goldfish looking at us.
And unfortunately these people are in positions of power within local communities.
Hence why I reckon we need national policies which would override these local laws and bye laws.

Yes I get it, we are at times tarred with the brush as travellers, and that is wrong because clearly we are not the same.
But in my honest opinion there is a movement in this country towards stricter land controls, driven by ignorance, and accentuated by Covid, and all that is going on right now. I fear that this law will be used as a template by some, and will be amended unfavourably towards us in future.
Be careful what you wish for, because it may just come home to bite you.
Just look what happened in Portugal, and is now being considered in Spain.

 

[brian c]

It is not just a certain part of the community taking over difficult to move Read about The motorhomers that sheerness are now serving notices on. Up at leysown near shellness the long lay-by by the beach up to 60 parked there. Some have been there over 9 months. Now if that is not cutting our own throats We stopped going there a year plus ago when there were20 plus parked there. Two of which were there every time we went there over a 2 month period Both had a W sticker. Whether still current members or …. I was asked on this forum last year what my opinion of wild camping was. Part of my reply was not staying in one place more then2/3 nights. That caused one person to be annoyed. Another to be upset a third to be confused. So I empathise this is an opinion not a law or a rule Ps one of the people in a Moho there says his children go to school from there and he has an allotment nearby. That sounds more like a resident then a motorhome to me. Brian

 

[Fisherman]

It is not just a certain part of the community taking over difficult to move Read about The motorhomers that sheerness are now serving notices on. Up at leysown near shellness the long lay-by by the beach up to 60 parked there. Some have been there over 9 months. Now if that is not cutting our own throats We stopped going there a year plus ago when there were20 plus parked there. Two of which were there every time we went there over a 2 month period Both had a W sticker. Whether still current members or …. I was asked on this forum last year what my opinion of wild camping was. Part of my reply was not staying in one place more then2/3 nights. That caused one person to be annoyed. Another to be upset a third to be confused. So I empathise this is an opinion not a law or a rule Ps one of the people in a Moho there says his children go to school from there and he has an allotment nearby. That sounds more like a resident then a motorhome to me. Brian

I don’t regard these people as wild campers, I am sure you don’t either Brian.
But sadly some uniformed people in power do.
As you say they are residents, not wild campers.
We set a two night rule, sadly some don’t, and they are ruining things for others with their selfish behaviour.

 

[colinm]

If you read the section I've quoted you will see that the law 'as planned' (although this might well change) is fairly toothless when it comes to any 'well behaved' wild camper.

 

[witzend]

I'd rather the Police didn't get this power as what ever is quoted they'd translate it to suit themselves. As for travellers in Europe places are provided for them Gens du Voyage in France why don't our councils do the same here which would remove their parking problems. They'd not seize one of their vehicles as that would make a family Homeless and require rehousing.
But They'd have one of ours in a minute
Petition signed

 

[The laird]

Done

 

[molly 2]

Should councils provide legal sites ore encampments ? That would help aliveiate the problem .

 

[mistericeman]

Should councils provide legal sites ore encampments ? That would help aliveiate the problem .

They already have to afaik

Plan making - Spaces and places for Gypsies and Travellers: how planning can help

Councils have a duty to allocate sufficient land for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation needs.

www.local.gov.uk

There are a certain element within their community that don't wish to be on any site as such... And will ignore any efforts to tell them where they can stay or not, there are also an element that cause havoc anywhere they stop... (sound familiar)

Frankly IF some of them didn't cause havoc wherever they parked I think it'd be unlikely anyone would complain...

Again sounds familiar.....

 

[maureenandtom]

I'd rather the Police didn't get this power as what ever is quoted they'd translate it to suit themselves. As for travellers in Europe places are provided for them Gens du Voyage in France why don't our councils do the same here which would remove their parking problems. They'd not seize one of their vehicles as that would make a family Homeless and require rehousing.
But They'd have one of ours in a minute
Petition signed

Why don't our councils do the same? A very good question. From some of my own research but mainly that of John Thompson we found that councils are required to make space - but ignore the requirement. Mostly. I think there are one or two up and down the country; one I remember was in Leeds. I had some discussions with some Traveller oarganisation a few years ago and was told of that but a very quick google doesn't turn it up.

But this came up easily enough:

Plan making - Spaces and places for Gypsies and Travellers: how planning can help

Councils have a duty to allocate sufficient land for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation needs.

www.local.gov.uk

 

[maureenandtom]

Mr Iceman. Beat me to it. Thankyou

 

[witzend]

They already have to afaik

Plan making - Spaces and places for Gypsies and Travellers: how planning can help

Councils have a duty to allocate sufficient land for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation needs.

www.local.gov.uk

Thats dated 2007 wonder how many places that have been created ?

 

[mistericeman]

Thats dated 2007 wonder how many places that have been created ?

Difficult to find an accurate number in a easy to read format (there was a, online map BUT now seems to be unavailable now.

Think even this dates back sometime (possibly 2010/2011)
When I last looked into it.

, Traveller and travelling showpeople caravan sites by local authority​

Click heading to sort - Download this data

Ignore	Local Authorities	Region	Total number of pitches	Residential	Transit	Caravan capacity
SOURCE: DCLG
1	North East	NE	195	195	0	329
2	Durham UA	NE	90	90	0	104
3	Middlesbrough U A	NE	16	16	0	45
4	Northumberland UA	NE	32	32	0	64
5	Redcar & Cleveland U A	NE	14	14	0	34
6	Stockton-on-Tees U A	NE	29	29	0	54
7	Gateshead	NE	14	14	0	28
8	North West	NW	425	383	42	661
9	Blackburn & Darwen UA	NW	20	20	0	40
10	Blackpool U A	NW	26	26	0	52
11	Bolton	NW	26	26	0	52
12	Bury	NW	17	17	0	25
13	Cheshire East UA	NW	17	17	0	17
14	Cumbria CC	NW	15	15	0	30
15	Halton U A	NW	37	25	12	74
16	Lancashire CC	NW	47	47	0	74
17	Liverpool	NW	14	14	0	22
18	Manchester	NW	66	66	0	70
19	Rochdale	NW	27	27	0	54
20	Salford	NW	61	31	30	62
21	Sefton	NW	16	16	0	25
22	St. Helens	NW	20	20	0	40
23	Wigan	NW	16	16	0	24
24	Yorkshire and the Humber	Y&H	557	533	24	1043
25	Barnsley	Y&H	28	28	0	56
26	Bradford	Y&H	46	46	0	94
27	Doncaster	Y&H	59	49	10	98
28	East Riding of Yorkshire U A	Y&H	41	37	4	47
29	Kingston-upon-Hull U A	Y&H	70	70	0	100
30	Kirklees	Y&H	12	12	0	24
31	Leeds	Y&H	41	41	0	120
32	North Lincolnshire	Y&H	13	13	0	13
33	North Yorkshire CC	Y&H	123	113	10	151
34	Sheffield	Y&H	31	31	0	61
35	Wakefield	Y&H	38	38	0	114
36	York	Y&H	55	55	0	165
37	East Midlands	East Mid	270	256	14	495
38	Derbyshire CC	East Mid	33	31	2	66
39	Leicester U A	East Mid	21	21	0	42
40	Leicestershire CC	East Mid	23	23	0	33
41	Lincolnshire CC	East Mid	89	77	12	161
42	Northamptonshire CC	East Mid	92	92	0	169
43	Nottinghamshire CC	East Mid	12	12	0	24
44	West Midlands	West Mid	554	540	14	938
45	Birmingham	West Mid	15	15	0	15
46	Dudley	West Mid	19	19	0	32
47	Herefordshire U A	West Mid	59	59	0	114
48	Sandwell	West Mid	15	15	0	25
49	Shropshire UA	West Mid	46	46	0	94
50	Staffordshire CC	West Mid	31	31	0	35
51	Stoke-on-Trent U A	West Mid	45	33	12	74
52	Telford & Wrekin U A	West Mid	36	36	0	70
53	Walsall	West Mid	19	19	0	40
54	Warwickshire CC	West Mid	81	81	0	110
55	Wolverhampton	West Mid	40	40	0	40
56	Worcestershire CC	West Mid	148	146	2	289
57	East	East	926	853	73	1803
58	Bedford UA	East	16	16	0	32
59	Central Bedfordshire UA	East	49	49	0	98
60	Cambridgeshire CC	East	162	151	11	404
61	Essex CC	East	169	169	0	314
62	Hertfordshire CC	East	195	180	15	387
63	Luton U A	East	20	20	0	26
64	Norfolk CC	East	147	100	47	246
65	Peterborough U A	East	64	64	0	128
66	Suffolk CC	East	40	40	0	40
67	Thurrock U A	East	64	64	0	128
68	London	London	474	456	18	676
69	Barking and Dagenham	London	11	11	0	15
70	Bexley	London	10	10	0	12
71	Brent	London	30	30	0	60
72	Bromley	London	36	36	0	72
73	Camden	London	5	5	0	5
74	Croydon	London	19	19	0	19
75	Ealing	London	24	24	0	48
76	Hackney	London	27	27	0	39
77	Haringey	London	10	10	0	10
78	Harrow	London	1	1	0	1
79	Hillingdon	London	20	20	0	20
80	Hounslow	London	20	20	0	20
81	Kensington & Chelsea	London	19	19	0	19
82	Kingston upon Thames	London	15	15	0	15
83	Lambeth	London	15	15	0	15
84	Newham	London	15	15	0	30
85	Redbridge	London	16	16	0	16
86	Richmond upon Thames	London	12	12	0	12
87	Sutton	London	33	15	18	52
88	Tower Hamlets	London	19	19	0	34
89	Waltham Forest	London	13	13	0	26
90	Wandsworth	London	11	11	0	11
91	South East	SE	1017	989	28	1408
92	Bracknell Forest UA	SE	13	13	0	13
93	Brighton and Hove UA	SE	23	0	23	23
94	Buckinghamshire CC	SE	80	80	0	160
95	East Sussex CC	SE	29	29	0	40
96	Hampshire CC	SE	78	78	0	138
97	Kent CC	SE	201	201	0	260
98	Medway Towns U A	SE	11	11	0	12
99	Milton Keynes U A	SE	18	18	0	18
100	Oxfordshire CC	SE	80	80	0	160
101	Southampton U A	SE	14	14	0	36
102	Slough UA	SE	39	39	0	39
103	Surrey CC	SE	230	230	0	290
104	West Berkshire U A	SE	18	18	0	36
105	West Sussex CC	SE	128	123	5	128
106	Windsor and Maidenhead U A	SE	25	25	0	25
107	Wokingham U A	SE	30	30	0	30
108	South West	SW	581	507	74	997
109	Bristol UA	SW	32	12	20	45
110	Cornwall UA	SW	64	64	0	104
111	Devon CC	SW	17	17	0	20
112	Dorset CC	SW	47	47	0	59
113	Gloucestershire CC	SW	81	81	0	140
114	North Somerset U A	SW	7	7	0	15
115	Plymouth UA	SW	13	13	0	26
116	Poole U A	SW	15	15	0	15
117	Somerset CC	SW	104	79	25	149
118	South Gloucestershire U A	SW	39	39	0	117
119	Swindon U A	SW	54	37	17	91
120	Wiltshire UA	SW	108	96	12	216
121	England	ENGLAND	4999	4712	287	8350