Petition Against NC 500 Campers

AndyR said:
This wont be popular, but ......

I agree with him in principle. I come from that part of the world and have travelled the roads of the far North of Scotland, including those that make up the NC500, by motorhome for many years at all times of year. The volume of traffic has increased exponentially over recent years, putting extra and, in many cases, unexpected pressure on the local infrastructure.

As always, an inconsiderate and thoughtless minority do cause significant problems, by parking in what can at best be described as an inconsiderate way, and in disposing of all kinds of waste wherever they feel like. Please note that I'm talking about an a very small minority of people, who are probably that way inclined in every aspect of their lives.

The vast majority of locals appreciate the added income travellers on the NC500 bring, and are delighted to share their stunningly beautiful part of the world with all visitors. Their desire to keep it beautiful and to find appropriate ways to sensibly manage the greatly increased visitor levels (of all kinds) is totally understandable.

Instead of throwing our rattles out of our collective prams, we should be working with them to help find a way to make using the NC500 a safe and pleasurable experience for visitors and locals alike.

The idea of a 'congestion charge' is a good one. But only if the capital raised is used to create French style Aires at a range of appropriate points, thus dealing with the parking and waste disposal/service issues. As motorhomers, we should commit to using them in preference to parking anywhere we like and locals will have to accept that it will probably reduce the numbers of motorhomes using campsites.

If, as a community, we don't engage with the locals to resolve what has become a very real problem, motorhomes on the NC500 could, conceivably, become a thing of the past.
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Hmm, I can see where you're coming from but in truth I don't really want to be forced into using Aire style stopovers for every night any more than I want to use campsites for every night. I do use campsites every few days and would probably use Aires the same but really prefer the peace and quiet of remote spots with no-one else (including other campervans/motorhome) anywhere near us.

Crucially, whatever solution is presented it will have no effect on the group mentioned in your post (highlighted above).

Phill
 
linkshouse said:
Hmm, I can see where you're coming from but in truth I don't really want to be forced into using Aire style stopovers for every night any more than I want to use campsites for every night. I do use campsites every few days and would probably use Aires the same but really prefer the peace and quiet of remote spots with no-one else (including other campervans/motorhome) anywhere near us.
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I'd be very happy to pay a reasonable fee to take on fresh water and dispose of trash, grey and black waste at official 'leisure vehicle service points'. It can't be beyond the wit of man to build service points and, as they won't be stopovers, they won't be subjected to any anti-caravan planning legislation. I suspect that, given the convenience they would present, most would prefer to use proper service points than skulk around the nearest public loos etc. I know that I'd be happy to pay £5-£10 a time to pump and dump.

linkshouse said:
Crucially, whatever solution is presented it will have no effect on the group mentioned in your post [the thoughless, inconsiderate minority].
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I agree. However, with a reasonable network of service points available there'll be a much stronger case with which to take those miscreants to task IMO.
 
Seems a good idea in principle but in this country; speaking as a professional in architecture, we have such a woolly system it would take ages to get one approved. Land ownership being a big issue, then the local authority planning committee (it would have to go before them) not understanding what Aires are and how they implement them service wise to ensure - dare I say it, they don't become simply traveller sites! I know there are the odd one or two popping up here and there but these still have toilets - I don't know of one in UK which is simply a service point and driver break stop. It's entrance would also need to be designed to ensure it didn't end up as a lorry park!
 
Norfolk Jim said:
Seems a good idea in principle but in this country; speaking as a professional in architecture, we have such a woolly system it would take ages to get one approved. Land ownership being a big issue, then the local authority planning committee (it would have to go before them) not understanding what Aires are and how they implement them service wise to ensure - dare I say it, they don't become simply traveller sites! I know there are the odd one or two popping up here and there but these still have toilets - I don't know of one in UK which is simply a service point and driver break stop. It's entrance would also need to be designed to ensure it didn't end up as a lorry park!
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All that's needed for a leisure vehicle service point is (ideally) a drive-over grey dumping point, a CDP, fresh and rinse water taps and a bin/skip. Positioning these at filling stations or at the entrance to a park and Imposing a 1-hour max stay and only while pumping and dumping might help prevent it becoming a lorry park. Also, I hope that some campsites might see the opportunity to provide this service for a fee. However, I take your point regarding planning committees, all of which probably include a NIMBY or two...
 
GeoffL said:
. Also, I hope that some campsites might see the opportunity to provide this service for a fee.
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We've been to some that already do this - but you also see a lot saying 'Only for the use of people booked on the site'.
 
Norfolk Jim said:
Did this chap tell you he hasn't got any on board facilities or did you have a look inside? Please do not make assumptions about VW's as there are so many variations. We have owned a T5 Leisuredrive conversion (see my avatar) since Jan 2015, which can sleep 4. We bought it purely for visiting Scotland having rented cottages for 3 years prior. We have everything you do in your motorhome except a shower and fixed toilet. We have a gas double hob, oven and grill. A sink with pumped water with 45 litre tank (a grey water tank inbuilt) and a fridge which runs on gas, hook-up or engine when travelling and we have a porta potti. If you look at it when loaded ready for travel; apart from obviously more windows, it looks like a commercial van with bike rack. We have generally spent 2 weeks in May and 2 weeks in September for last 5 years touring Scotland and the Isles. We generally visit small quiet campsites or 'Wild Spots' (for the odd night) that motorhomes simply cannot reach due to size - the T5 is afterall less than 5m long, 2.0m high and car width. We always buy our general groceries etc local to help support their economy and camper fits into normal size parking bays. There are some T5 conversions that do actually have a cassette toilet like this one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...g-location=at_motorhomes&page=22&modal=photos (and some a fixed shower) also they are excellent on fuel as when loaded we get on average high 30's low 40's mpg - also no speed restrictions like vans. We are now considering upgrading to a full VW California which is the highest value retaining general production vehicle on the road currently!! Several at the moment are selling for more than they were new - they are that good, drive like a car and can be used as a daily driver. These come loaded with kit. Electric roof, 2 large beds which are very quick to set-up, double leisure batteries, hot and cold water with large tanks for fresh and waste on board. Table in side door and chairs in tailgate. Some now come with shower connections at the back with an awning that quickly fits rear tailgate to make fully enclosed pumped hot water shower even with shower tray. SO please please don't say these vehicles are not suitable; I would suggest they are more suitable than a motorhome TBH and also being 3000kg are not heavy!!!!

Oh and BTW since 1st July it has been travelling down the West Atlantic Way in Ireland with my son and his Irish partner. In that time they've only stopped at campsite for 2 nights; the rest they used Wild Spots using local facilities as and when needed. No issues and locals have all been fine considering the Irish are still unable to do international travel.
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I couldn’t agree more👏 I also have a T5 and have owned over 8years and have been all over Scotland and it’s islands. I also think it’s far better suited to wildcamping than a big white motorhome for lots of reasons.
 
Debroos said:
Don't tell the press. It will be all over the front pages!! 😳
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Especially if that Daily Fail gets to hear about this. The Front Page headline

From Karen the reporter


"Today on the Nc500 A Vw campervan leaves a trail of stink in its wake.Everyone knows people in Campervans dont wash or have the facilities to do so.Local residents advised to mask up.Oh thats great they can reuse their #covid19 infected Pandemic masks to combat the problem ,Two Birds with one stone and all that.Then continues,Must get these campervans banned"

The Daily Fail will sell like hot cakes.
 
Norfolk Jim said:
Did this chap tell you he hasn't got any on board facilities or did you have a look inside? Please do not make assumptions about VW's as there are so many variations. We have owned a T5 Leisuredrive conversion (see my avatar) since Jan 2015, which can sleep 4. We bought it purely for visiting Scotland having rented cottages for 3 years prior. We have everything you do in your motorhome except a shower and fixed toilet. We have a gas double hob, oven and grill. A sink with pumped water with 45 litre tank (a grey water tank inbuilt) and a fridge which runs on gas, hook-up or engine when travelling and we have a porta potti. If you look at it when loaded ready for travel; apart from obviously more windows, it looks like a commercial van with bike rack. We have generally spent 2 weeks in May and 2 weeks in September for last 5 years touring Scotland and the Isles. We generally visit small quiet campsites or 'Wild Spots' (for the odd night) that motorhomes simply cannot reach due to size - the T5 is afterall less than 5m long, 2.0m high and car width. We always buy our general groceries etc local to help support their economy and camper fits into normal size parking bays. There are some T5 conversions that do actually have a cassette toilet like this one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...g-location=at_motorhomes&page=22&modal=photos (and some a fixed shower) also they are excellent on fuel as when loaded we get on average high 30's low 40's mpg - also no speed restrictions like vans. We are now considering upgrading to a full VW California which is the highest value retaining general production vehicle on the road currently!! Several at the moment are selling for more than they were new - they are that good, drive like a car and can be used as a daily driver. These come loaded with kit. Electric roof, 2 large beds which are very quick to set-up, double leisure batteries, hot and cold water with large tanks for fresh and waste on board. Table in side door and chairs in tailgate. Some now come with shower connections at the back with an awning that quickly fits rear tailgate to make fully enclosed pumped hot water shower even with shower tray. SO please please don't say these vehicles are not suitable; I would suggest they are more suitable than a motorhome TBH and also being 3000kg are not heavy!!!!

Oh and BTW since 1st July it has been travelling down the West Atlantic Way in Ireland with my son and his Irish partner. In that time they've only stopped at campsite for 2 nights; the rest they used Wild Spots using local facilities as and when needed. No issues and locals have all been fine considering the Irish are still unable to do international travel.
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I think you mis-understood, I'm wasn't knocking T5's or even another van conversion,

"I'm not anti camper vans, just observing how many there were"

"But the real issue was the mess, the smell and the attitude of the people camping in places they really should not have been", unimportant what they were driving

and no I didn't look in his van, but without going into too much detail if he had a toilet his partner really should have been using it.

And the ample evidence of general waste as well as human waste strongly suggests that if these vans have toilets then they should use them, rather than squat on the verge, leave black bin bags in the open and stand in the road drinking beer.

Out of interest I don't give much of a dam about where you buy your groceries or how many miles you get to the gallon, sounds like small man syndrome to me
 
Boris7 said:
I think you mis-understood, I'm wasn't knocking T5's or even another van conversion,

"I'm not anti camper vans, just observing how many there were"

"But the real issue was the mess, the smell and the attitude of the people camping in places they really should not have been", unimportant what they were driving

and no I didn't look in his van, but without going into too much detail if he had a toilet his partner really should have been using it.

And the ample evidence of general waste as well as human waste strongly suggests that if these vans have toilets then they should use them, rather than squat on the verge, leave black bin bags in the open and stand in the road drinking beer.

Out of interest I don't give much of a dam about where you buy your groceries or how many miles you get to the gallon, sounds like small man syndrome to me
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Let's be clear, neither campervans nor motorhomes, or for that matter tents, leave a mess at the side of the road. People leave the mess.

I'm afraid the sort of people that leave this rubbish, and worse, at the side of the road would do so whatever they were using to sleep in.

To paraphrase a frequent dog owner quotation "there's no such thing as a bad campervan/motorhome, just bad campervan/motorhome owners".

Edit: Corrected numerous typos :rolleyes:
 
Boris7 said:
I think you mis-understood, I'm wasn't knocking T5's or even another van conversion,

"I'm not anti camper vans, just observing how many there were"

"But the real issue was the mess, the smell and the attitude of the people camping in places they really should not have been", unimportant what they were driving

and no I didn't look in his van, but without going into too much detail if he had a toilet his partner really should have been using it.

And the ample evidence of general waste as well as human waste strongly suggests that if these vans have toilets then they should use them, rather than squat on the verge, leave black bin bags in the open and stand in the road drinking beer.

Out of interest I don't give much of a dam about where you buy your groceries or how many miles you get to the gallon, sounds like small man syndrome to me
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Actually where you buy your groceries is important. If you bring everything with you and put nothing into the local economy then no wonder we become unwelcome. This applies equally to us, holiday cottages and second homes.
 
Boris7 said:
I think you mis-understood, I'm wasn't knocking T5's or even another van conversion,

Out of interest I don't give much of a dam about where you buy your groceries or how many miles you get to the gallon, sounds like small man syndrome to me
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Fair enough but please don't start that small man syndrome!!! You have no idea how tall I am. I like the idea that I can go anywhere in my T5 that a car can including into cities and even park in multi storey car parks. I'm considering selling my Nissan X Trail and this camper and buying a full california (you know - the highest value retaining general production vehicle on the roads) and using that as my daily work drive - I could not use a motorhome for that purpose and doubt any insurance company would cover me for business in one. But small man syndrome - I find that quite funny
 
linkshouse said:
Let's be clear, neither campervans nor motorhomes, or for that matter tents, leave a mess at the side of the road. People leave the mess.

I'm afraid the sort of people that leave this rubbish, and worse, at the side of the road would do so whatever they were using to sleep in.

To paraphrase a frequent dog owner quotation "there's no such thing as a bad campervan/motorhome, just bad campervan/motorhome owners".

Edit: Corrected numerous typos :rolleyes:
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Nail on head linkhouse spot on.
I doesn’t matter if you do the NC 500 in a large Motorhome, a camper van, or a tent. Because none of them can leave mess and be inconsiderate towards others whilst out and about. It’s the occupants that are the problem. My mate has a T5 with no toilet facilities. Now I have never asked him what him and his wife do when nature calls. But I am 100% certain that they don’t leave human waste behind them. My reason for saying that is both he and his wife are lovers of Scotland and it’s unique environment. They have been all of their adult lives, that’s one of the things that brought them together.
You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, and old one but none the less very true.
To me this all comes down to common sense and forward planning.
The thought of doing the NC 500 or heading to Skye in the summer months has as much appeal as a visit to the dentist to have a moler removed without anaesthetic.
I would much rather do either in early spring or late autumn, or weather permitting in winter. It takes a certain type of person to think that they can do the NC 500 with no thought about human and general waste whatsoever. These types are what create the problems, not the vans they travel in, or the tents they pitch.

As for aires and better provisions well this brings in the other side of the coin.
Generally speaking I am not a believer in sudden need of aires, just a change in attitude towards us by those who run our councils and our respective governments.
What kind of idiot highlights something like the NC 500 with its totally inadequate roads, lack of basic human provisions, and at times intolerant locals, then wonders why it has all gone so wrong. Scotland right now is littered with such problems through improper planning and lack of contingent thinking towards them. I can think of no other country that has made such a mess of things than we have. if we want people to come up here and enjoy their visit we need to provide some facilities. Take the road tariff equivalent scheme for out ferries. Now islands like Mull are inundated with cars and other vehicles that their roads simply cannot handle in summer months. And guess who gets most of the blame, yep us even though we make up less than 5% of the visitors.
We should also warn people of these current deficiencies, whilst making plans to rectify them. Also try to encourage them to visit at other times if possible.
 
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Debroos said:
Couldn't agree more. We also have a t5 and have a toilet on board. No shower but that is our problem and no one elses!
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Well, I have had a T4 for the last 19 years , have spent over 1300 nights in it, mostly on Aires or wildcamping and have to say it is remarkable what can be done with a small bowl of warm water and a flannel!

I would also add how saddened I am to read this and many other threads on the problems that exist in Scotland and particularly the west coast. Having spent many holidays there with my parents in their caravan in the late 50's and 60's in the days of the Highlands and Islands mobile film units and when just getting from Fort William to McDonalds campsite at Back of Keppoch near Arisaig was a nerve racking days drive for my father I will not return and spoil my memories. No doubt the scenery remains the same but it seems everything else has.
 
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