Other than internal lights what does my leisure battery actually do?

[esupergood]

Hi chaps.
Today I finished installing a 2nd hand 130w solar panel along with a dual-battery charging controller and am happy to report that it went well. Both batteries have been fully topped up today using energy from that huge great burning ball of gas in the sky. Excellent!

So now that i have an "always full" leisure battery here are some questions I hope you can help with

I have a Hymer B534 from the early 1990s

- How do I charge a laptop/phone using the leisure battery? The built in plug sockets don't seem to power anything unless I get hooked up on a campsite

- Can I power the fridge using the leisure battery?

- (also can I power the fridge using gas?)

- I have a 1kw inverter which I sometimes power things from the cigarette lighter. I know that takes power from the engine so is there anything to stop me connecting the invertor up to the leisure battery instead? If not then it seems a good idea to do so but where should I connect the cables? Direct to the leisure battery terminals? Or elsewhere?

 

[n brown]

simplest way to charge things is through an inverter connected to the leisure battery [LB]
the fridge is connected to the van battery[VB] as it draws a lot of power and would soon flatten the LB .it will only run on 12v when the engine runs
this is how it works
you run the fridge on 240v when on hook up at home or on a campsite
you run it on 12v when driving,as the van alternator is charging the VB
you run it on gas when parked and away from any hook up
you can connect the inverter direct to the LB, best way is to wire in a couple of 12v sockets,but for occasional use, crocodile clips are ok

 

[esupergood]

Thanks NBrown, that's great stuff. So THAT's what those extra wires are that came with the invertor - they are for connecting to the leisure battery.

So the inverter is 2000w with 2 pairs of red and black terminals on the back.

I hooked up one pair of red/black to the leisure battery and did some tests.

The inverter cuts out after 30 seconds (green light turns to red) when I run a 150w key-cutting machine.

So then I hooked up both pairs of red/black to the leisure battery which apparently allows it to deliver the full 2000w. But I had the same issue, it still cut out after 30 seconds even though the machine is only rate at 150W.

I also test a 1200w microwave and a 1300w steam mop and an 800w handheld steam mop (just random items from the house to test with). They all caused the inverter to cut out (green light turns red) as soon as I plug them in.

Am I expecting too much from the leisure battery? Why would the inverter claim to take a 12v source and convert it to 1000w-2000w of output if it cuts out when using 150w gadgets?

A million thanks for helping me get my head around these things.

 

[Deleted member 5816]

The invert or steps up voltage from 12v to 240v a ratio of 20/1 the downside is that for amps it works the other way for every 1A at 240v you will draw 20a at 12v

For heavy loads you needs at least 2 110a batteries

The easiest way to charge your laptop is to use a 12v laptop charger

Alf

Thanks NBrown, that's great stuff. So THAT's what those extra wires are that came with the invertor - they are for connecting to the leisure battery.

So the inverter is 2000w with 2 pairs of red and black terminals on the back.

I hooked up one pair of red/black to the leisure battery and did some tests.

The inverter cuts out after 30 seconds (green light turns to red) when I run a 150w key-cutting machine.

So then I hooked up both pairs of red/black to the leisure battery which apparently allows it to deliver the full 2000w. But I had the same issue, it still cut out after 30 seconds even though the machine is only rate at 150W.

I also test a 1200w microwave and a 1300w steam mop and an 800w handheld steam mop (just random items from the house to test with). They all caused the inverter to cut out (green light turns red) as soon as I plug them in.

Am I expecting too much from the leisure battery? Why would the inverter claim to take a 12v source and convert it to 1000w-2000w of output if it cuts out when using 150w gadgets?

A million thanks for helping me get my head around these things.

 

[esupergood]

Fabulous! Thanks for that info.
I could get a 2nd leisure battery and use them to send power through the inverter and charge them both using the solar panel on the roof.

So do you think 2 leisure batteries running through the inverter would run a 300w blender or similar gadget?

 

[rugbyken]

Won't get technical I'm not qualified but it does sound as though the inverter is faulty if it was working from your cigar lighter then it's probably the wiring , the cabling from the battery is usually the heavy duty stuff the battery itself has ie the quarter inch black & red if your using normal cable this could be the problem .
Little confused about the two sets of wires on the 2000w inverter I had on the old van you had one power scourse and feeds for two sockets giving 2x1000w??, also you will need an isolator in line between the batteries and the inverter otherwise the inverter will drain it on standby!!?

 

[No Fixed Abode]

Inverter is an inefficient way to use the power of your 12v batteries & would avoid if possible, e.g. by using appropriate 12v socket adapters to power or charge laptop/phone/kindle/smallish 12v TV, for example. Inverter does need connecting direct to battery with substantial cable & appropriate fuse. Also to bear in mind that some appliances (power tools, e.g.) need boost on initial start-up, bit like starting your van engine, which can trip the inverter. If you want to run things like fridges, microwaves, any form of electric heating you'll need small petrol genny as the size of the solar/battery bank will likely be prohibitive. Hope that helps...

 

[Thorgrim]

Possibly the 2000w rating on your inverter is the initial surge rating but the continuous usage rating may be much lower.
They are designed like this to assist with starting an appliance and then dropping to a lower continuous usage level.

 

[maingate]

Won't get technical I'm not qualified but it does sound as though the inverter is faulty if it was working from your cigar lighter then it's probably the wiring , the cabling from the battery is usually the heavy duty stuff the battery itself has ie the quarter inch black & red if your using normal cable this could be the problem .
Little confused about the two sets of wires on the 2000w inverter I had on the old van you had one power scourse and feeds for two sockets giving 2x1000w??, also you will need an isolator in line between the batteries and the inverter otherwise the inverter will drain it on standby!!?

What has probably happened is that the big current draw of those powerful 240 volt appliances has dropped the battery voltage quickly and the inverter has sensed that and tripped out.

 

[esupergood]

I should have provided an image sooner but here goes.
The guy I bought the inverter from suspected that running power to 1 pair of the inverter terminals would provide 1kw of power and running power to 2 pairs of inverter terminals would provide 2kw. That was his guess and that's why I've experimented with running both sets of red/black cables to the leisure battery.



It would be nice to run a 300w smoothie blender. Does anyone think that's achievable without using a generator?

 

[esupergood]

FAO Rugbyken and NoFixedAbode I'm using nice chunky cables which came with the 2kw inverter to connect to the LB

So the best way to charge low voltage items such as phones and laptops is not to use an inverter? What connector should I be using (if not an inverter) to get power from the LB into my phone/laptop etc

 

[maingate]

There are several ways to charge small items. For our mobile phones I just use a small 80 watt inverter. For running the 240 volt Sky digibox (30 watts), I use a 150 watt inverter. Some slightly larger items like electric toothbrush, my rechargeable razor, I also use the 150 watt inverter.

As someone else has said, an inverter will only run long term if the wattage is well below the rating of the inverter.

For a laptop, buy a dedicated laptop adaptor (Maplin sell a good one). They convert 12 volts to the operating voltage of your laptop/netbook etc. You just set the unit to whatever voltage you require and they come with a range of tips that will fit the charging socket of your appliance.

 

[Caz]

Are there not already any 12v sockets in your Hymer? All my vans have had at least one in the habitation area which fed from the leisure battery in addition to the one in the cab area feeding from the van battery.

They could be cigar lighter sockets, Hella sockets which look similar but smaller, or two pin sockets (there are two different types of these).

Running 12v appliances from these is more efficient than using an inverter.

Inverters are very sensitive to low voltage, mine cuts out when using my netbook if voltage in battery is low even though there's still plenty of life in it for lights etc.

 

[esupergood]

As someone else has said, an inverter will only run long term if the wattage is well below the rating of the inverter.

This is the source of my earlier confusion. It's feels strange having a 2000w inverter unable to power a 150w gadget.

Are there not already any 12v sockets in your Hymer? All my vans have had at least one in the habitation area which fed from the leisure battery in addition to the one in the cab area feeding from the van battery.

They could be cigar lighter sockets, Hella sockets which look similar but smaller, or two pin sockets (there are two different types of these)

We have the 2-pin (European) power socket next to the sink and one in an upper storage compartment. When we are hooked up we can use these to power laptops and more powerful items. When we are not hooked up I've never got anything out of them so assume they are disabled when not hooked up. They won't even charge a mobile phone.

So those give power from the leisure battery do they? How can I find out how many watts they can provide because so far it seems like too low power to be of any use.

Thanks for helping a techno-phobe!

 

[n brown]

to elucidate-i hope !
when you're on hook up,[i can only generalise as i don't know your set up !] 240v from the mains goes into whatever distribution board you have, through a 240v fuse box,and supplies power to
the 240v element on the fridge
any 240v lights you may have
an inbuilt charger to charge the LB
any 240v sockets,like the 2 pin ones you mention
as soon as you disconnect from the hookup, none of these things will work- you are now dependent on the LB,which,through another fuse board supplies power to

any 12v lights
any 12v sockets,which can come as small 2 pin ,jacks,or lighter sockets .
when on hookup,your 12v system will continue to work,as it is powered by the LB which is being charged by the 240v charger,and the solar panel

 

[Deleted member 5816]

I would beg to differ the 12v for the fridge should be supplied via a relay from the vehicle battery and only work when the engine is running .
Otherwise correct a good post

Alf

to elucidate-i hope !
when you're on hook up,[i can only generalise as i don't know your set up !] 240v from the mains goes into whatever distribution board you have, through a 240v fuse box,and supplies power to
the 240v element on the fridge
any 240v lights you may have
an inbuilt charger to charge the LB
any 240v sockets,like the 2 pin ones you mention
as soon as you disconnect from the hookup, none of these things will work- you are now dependent on the LB,which,through another fuse board supplies power to
the 12v element on the fridge
any 12v lights
any 12v sockets,which can come as small 2 pin ,jacks,or lighter sockets .
when on hookup,your 12v system will continue to work,as it is powered by the LB which is being charged by the 240v charger,and the solar panel

 

[n brown]

spot on Alf,don't know how i missed that !

 

[esupergood]

...as soon as you disconnect from the hookup, none of these things will work- you are now dependent on the LB,which,through another fuse board supplies power to

any 12v lights
any 12v sockets,which can come as small 2 pin ,jacks,or lighter sockets

Thanks for your excellent reply.
I would assume that I'm supposed to be getting power from the LB to the two 2-pin sockets I have in the habitable areas but they only work when I'm hooked up. I would have thought the LB should be sending power to those sockets so I can run some low-power items off the grid without resorting to inverters wired to the LB.

 

[Tezza33]

Thanks for your excellent reply.
I would assume that I'm supposed to be getting power from the LB to the two 2-pin sockets I have in the habitable areas but they only work when I'm hooked up. I would have thought the LB should be sending power to those sockets so I can run some low-power items off the grid without resorting to inverters wired to the LB.

Can you post a picture of these 2-pin sockets, is your van left hand drive by any chance and are you sure they are not European 230v sockets like this View attachment 24180

 

[esupergood]

Yes that's the ones. Yes it's a left-hand drive Citroen based Hymer and it has 2 of those plug sockets that you've attached a photo of.

I have the little UK travel adapter plug which means I can power my gadgets when hooked up. But I get no power from the sockets when not hooked up.