Ombudsman rules on DVLA approach to self build camper vans

That really is good news Bill.

The DVLA has always taken an authoritarian attitude in policing self builds and it is long overdue that they were kicked into touch. I never had any problems registering mine as a campervan but I know many who did.

Thanks for posting.
 
Yep Rob. We got ours changed to motor caravan just be fore this debacle started. I was surprised the DVLA hadn't recalled our V5 to change it to van with windows. (y)
 
The main problem was, I believe, that the very vast majority of applications received by the DVLA were not inclusive enough and certainly didn't answer their questions adequately.

As for me, I took the matter very seriously and produced a perfect bound A4 sized booklet that had 36 photographs of the build as well as a pull out spread sheet which gave detailed cost appraisals which also gave the names of the suppiers.

I received my approval within 10 days of sending it off to them. I used the very same booklet to get an agreed valuation of my van which I have used now on 3 different occasions when swapping insurance companies.
 
Millie Master said:
The main problem was, I believe, that the very vast majority of applications received by the DVLA were not inclusive enough and certainly didn't answer their questions adequately.

As for me, I took the matter very seriously and produced a perfect bound A4 sized booklet that had 36 photographs of the build as well as a pull out spread sheet which gave detailed cost appraisals which also gave the names of the suppiers.

I received my approval within 10 days of sending it off to them. I used the very same booklet to get an agreed valuation of my van which I have used now on 3 different occasions when swapping insurance companies.
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I didn't go quite that far but you do have to give a bit of effort and show them you have done your best, chucking in a fold-up table a mattress and a camping stove will get what it deserves.
 
Pudsey Bear said:
I didn't go quite that far but you do have to give a bit of effort and show them you have done your best, chucking in a fold-up table a mattress and a camping stove will get what it deserves.
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The trouble is that many people have conformed to their regs and still been turned down. Often it is down to the DVLA's opinion of what a campervan should look like.
 
Not quite Rob, as I said the other day it is what they think the man in the street would think it is if they were a witness, also what the rozzers would describe it as, if they made that clear in their advice I think more would get the right result, IE it has to look like a Motorhome or Camper from the outside, one local chap got some of the window shaped panels covered in shiny vinyl, and put some decals on it from ebay, got the V5 changed then ripped it all off, not a single window on it but it looked right in the pictures, mine didn't have a table in the pictures but a pile of boxes a bit of ply and a big sheet made it look like it had one.
 
Robmac said:
That really is good news Bill.

The DVLA has always taken an authoritarian attitude in policing self builds and it is long overdue that they were kicked into touch. I never had any problems registering mine as a campervan but I know many who did.

Thanks for posting.
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But is it good news?

My reading is that DVLA have been told off for not communicating very well and have been told to improve this.

No action has been mandated that will make it easier to get a vehicle getting classified as motor caravan.

No timeframe has been given for any of the recommended actions.
 
r4dent said:
But is it good news?

My reading is that DVLA have been told off for not communicating very well and have been told to improve this.

No action has been mandated that will make it easier to get a vehicle getting classified as motor caravan.

No timeframe has been given for any of the recommended actions.
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It's a step in the right direction though and one of the complainants 'are now considering taking the issue to judicial review.'
 
r4dent said:
But is it good news?

My reading is that DVLA have been told off for not communicating very well and have been told to improve this.

No action has been mandated that will make it easier to get a vehicle getting classified as motor caravan.

No timeframe has been given for any of the recommended actions.
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Absolutely its good news, yes it may not cover specific changes required, but then that falls outwith the control of the ombudsman.
But the gist of what was decided will make it more difficult for the DVLA to be vague, inconsistent, and arrogant towards those who try to have their vans registered properly.

I think the last two bullet points are interesting, they require the DVLA to create an action plan, and for the DVLA to make the process clearer.
As Rob says we are heading in the right direction, and that has to be good news.

  • creates an action plan about how it intends to ensure that applicants have sufficiently detailed information available to them, before undertaking a conversion, about what elements constitute a vehicle of body type motor caravan
  • provides the Ombudsman with details of how it intends to make clear to customers the process involved in determining a body type and, in particular, making a decision on what body type to assign an application for a body type motor caravan.
 
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Fisherman said:
Absolutely its good news, yes it may not cover specific changes required, but then that falls outwith the control of the ombudsman.
But the gist of what was decided will make it more difficult for the DVLA to be both vague, inconsistent, and arrogant towards those who try to have their vans registered properly.

I think the last two bullet points are interesting, they require the DVLA to create an action plan, and for the DVLA to make the process clearer.
As Rob says we are heading in the right direction, and that has to be good news.

  • creates an action plan about how it intends to ensure that applicants have sufficiently detailed information available to them, before undertaking a conversion, about what elements constitute a vehicle of body type motor caravan
  • provides the Ombudsman with details of how it intends to make clear to customers the process involved in determining a body type and, in particular, making a decision on what body type to assign an application for a body type motor caravan.
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I hope you are right and that cynical old me is wrong.
I'm not a self builder and have no intention of becoming one, but I fully understand the frustration of those who have done the work or intend to do it in the future.

I have three worries about this report:-
a) At no point is the decision to class the vehicles as "vans with windows" questioned
The DVLA's communication is criticized, their decision making is not examined.
DVLA is not being asked to review the rules, just to communicate the rules better.
DVLA is not required to retrospectively communicate justification of existing decisions or better justify new decisions.

b) These are recommendations only and DVLA is under no obligation to adopt them.
If they do adopt the recommendations, no timeframe applies.
This provides no help for existing conversions and discourages people starting new ones until the situation is clarified.

c) £100 compensation is an insult and indicates that the ombudsman does no regard the issue as significant.
It is unlikely that the Ombudsman will consider further challenges on the subject.
 
What almost every self builders needs and have been repeatedly asking for from the DVLA is clarity, primarily in their definition of motor caravan style graphics. This seem to be where the most wasted money is being sometimes repeatedly spent by people trying to guess what is acceptable to the call centre operators making the decision.

The other area of contention is their seemingly double standards re bonded windows some vans get through others don’t they need to state clearly if bonded windows are acceptable or not period.

I suspect we may now see a tightening of their expected standards bonded windows may be added to the pop top category I.e don’t qualify.
 
Fisherman said:
You hit the nail on the head there Annie, sadly though I can’t see that ever happening in this country. Give us your thousands in VAT, your £295 road tax, your fuel duty, then go somewhere else :(
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Well they ruled on the WASPI against the government but no sign of any payout they are holding out the longer they do the more that are entitled will die costing them considerable less.
 
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Simple way is to have all vans go through a engineers report at a small cost, say £100, if it ticked all the boxes and the build was good then the dvla should issue, they are not engineers to say yes or no, just present whats required.
 
Has anyone come across a way of reregistering an M1 Motorcaravan bought in that brief period when eye watering taxes were imposed due to motorhomes being defined as expensive cars?
 
barge1914 said:
Has anyone come across a way of reregistering an M1 Motorcaravan bought in that brief period when eye watering taxes were imposed due to motorhomes being defined as expensive cars?
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Ah well that's a category I know very well, I do a lot of electrical work on ex Ambulances being converted into motor caravans.
Ambulances in service are usually ved exempt, (fyi it is impossible to report a ved evader to the DVLA for driving an ex Ambulance under the exemption hence why the hard core dishonest ones get away with it for years)

I have learnt the hard way not touch one if its still being driven whilst the owner is exploiting it previous ved exempt status!
Simple reason behind that rule, those people that do are usually dishonourable people and are often the most likely to be the non payers!

I also have had many many conversations with people some seemingly too lazy or ignorant to find out and actually digest what the body type, taxation class, revenue weight and vehicle type sections etc on their V5 mean.

A significant proportion of people buy them because the are told (by equally dishonest traders) they are VED exempt well yes they are when being used as an Ambulance. The honest ones do change the taxation class from Ambulance to PLG or PHGV eventually.

That is when the poor sods who mistakenly bought a PTS Ambulance (aka a minibus) rather than an ex A&E van variant find out the Vehicle type on their V5 says M1(<=3500kg) or M2(>3500kg) rather than the usual N1 or N2.

It became increasingly common from circa 2012 onwards that minibuses were registered with Vehicle type on their V5 as M1 or M2

Sadly the Vehicle type category is 100% set in stone at the time the vehicle is first registered it can never be changed
In addition M1 means the vehicle is taxed as a car, based on emissions some of the older more polluting M1 van owners are paying the top rate of £500+

@barge1914
There is a potential workaround though, uprate the vehicle to >3500KG, get the taxation class changed to PHGV and although the Vehicle type remains M1 Ved is then the fixed rate of £165 for PHGV.
 
trevskoda said:
Simple way is to have all vans go through a engineers report at a small cost, say £100, if it ticked all the boxes and the build was good then the dvla should issue, they are not engineers to say yes or no, just present whats required.
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You miss the point Trev, it's what it looks like to the man in the street, it can have all the interior stuff you like, if it looks like a van with windows they have done their job.
 
The fact they are confused about their own rules and how to apply them needs addressing and hopefully further litigation will do this. Having said that, our " van with windows" outside and " motor caravan" inside will stay as it is. No problem with it and no intention of jumping through new hoops!
 
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