NZ to ban vans without toilets

[Fisherman]

I was in my shed today and I saw something that made me think of this thread ....

No, I don't have a plumbed in toilet in the shed (I can just go outside instead (and walk to the house )). It was something I bought about 8 years ago but never actually ever used

Amazon.co.uk

View attachment 117757
It's a reasonable option for emergency/occasional use for those caught short and doubles up as a little seat when not needed for 'other' purposes.

You’re taking the Pi— David.

 

[Drover]

I was in my shed today and I saw something that made me think of this thread ....

No, I don't have a plumbed in toilet in the shed (I can just go outside instead (and walk to the house )). It was something I bought about 8 years ago but never actually ever used

Amazon.co.uk

View attachment 117757
It's a reasonable option for emergency/occasional use for those caught short and doubles up as a little seat when not needed for 'other' purposes.

A few Turkish lorry drivers got caught using Tesco bags in a trailer park at a local factory....just leave the bag behind the trailer.
All on cctv
Normal use for them apparently

 

[trevskoda]

It was something I bought about 8 years ago but never actually ever used

Amazon.co.uk

View attachment 117757
It's a reasonable option for emergency/occasional use for those caught short and doubles up as a little seat when not needed for 'other' purposes.

Thats a medical world record, never used it in 8 years, how on earth did you hold it all in.

 

[Geek]

The reality is that NZ is banning "wild camping" in vans without toilets. They can still go to sites.

And I can't see why that shouldn't apply in the UK too. But it would also need to apply to lorries. Can't see that happening!

 

[trevskoda]

The reality is that NZ is banning "wild camping" in vans without toilets. They can still go to sites.

And I can't see why that shouldn't apply in the UK too. But it would also need to apply to lorries. Can't see that happening!

Would be easy to fit a porta pot under the sleeping bunk, are thy classed as wildcamping when sleeping or just us, rule 91 HWC

 

[izwozral]

The ridiculous thing is, the legislation will state "fixed toilet", but no matter how you fix a portapotty it will not be acceptable.
The portapotty in the camper here in NZ is contained in a tight fitting cupboard, however, when the new rules kick in this will not pass as a fixed wc.

 

[trevskoda]

Very few here have piped in loos like American RV types.

 

[izwozral]

Well, just had first hand experience of why the issue of of fixed toilets has become a hot topic for Kiwi's.
We are currently camped up at Lake Wardell, a forest camp site with flush toilet. There is room for dozens of vans or tents.
Ten minutes ago a young lass walked past our camper, she appeared quite furtive, looked around then she stepped behind a tree. She was obviously more concerned about being observed from another camper some distance away so she hid herself more from them than from us. Our camper has tinted windows, she obviously couldn't see us looking straight at her.
Down she squats, quick wipe to her front then she heads back to her car.
She didn't half look embarrassed when I opened the door and pointed to where the toilets were.
If she had done a poo, I would have called her out but she didn't, however, it doesn't look good when there are toilet facilities.
Maybe she didn't know about the toilets? Maybe she was too lazy to walk the extra distance?
Most men have peed outdoors and a fair number of women I guess so it's difficult to be too narky about it but I guess it's different when it's your backyard so to speak?

 

[trevskoda]

Well, just had first hand experience of why the issue of of fixed toilets has become a hot topic for Kiwi's.
We are currently camped up at Lake Wardell, a forest camp site with flush toilet. There is room for dozens of vans or tents.
Ten minutes ago a young lass walked past our camper, she appeared quite furtive, looked around then she stepped behind a tree. She was obviously more concerned about being observed from another camper some distance away so she hid herself more from them than from us. Our camper has tinted windows, she obviously couldn't see us looking straight at her.
Down she squats, quick wipe to her front then she heads back to her car.
She didn't half look embarrassed when I opened the door and pointed to where the toilets were.
If she had done a poo, I would have called her out but she didn't, however, it doesn't look good when there are toilet facilities.
Maybe she didn't know about the toilets? Maybe she was too lazy to walk the extra distance?
Most men have peed outdoors and a fair number of women I guess so it's difficult to be too narky about it but I guess it's different when it's your backyard so to speak?

Did you do a vid and keep for us, no just for yourself.

 

[mark61]

Well, just had first hand experience of why the issue of of fixed toilets has become a hot topic for Kiwi's.
We are currently camped up at Lake Wardell, a forest camp site with flush toilet. There is room for dozens of vans or tents.
Ten minutes ago a young lass walked past our camper, she appeared quite furtive, looked around then she stepped behind a tree. She was obviously more concerned about being observed from another camper some distance away so she hid herself more from them than from us. Our camper has tinted windows, she obviously couldn't see us looking straight at her.
Down she squats, quick wipe to her front then she heads back to her car.
She didn't half look embarrassed when I opened the door and pointed to where the toilets were.
If she had done a poo, I would have called her out but she didn't, however, it doesn't look good when there are toilet facilities.
Maybe she didn't know about the toilets? Maybe she was too lazy to walk the extra distance?
Most men have peed outdoors and a fair number of women I guess so it's difficult to be too narky about it but I guess it's different when it's your backyard so to speak?

Yeah, that all sounds good. But how do you know she didn't have a poo?

 

[izwozral]

Yeah, that all sounds good. But how do you know she didn't have a poo?

I checked Mark, she even took her rather damp toilet paper back to the car.

Oh, and the collar and cuff did match.

 

[Owlhouse]

Quite honestly I am surprised that on a wild camping forum, that some seem to reckon that this measure is fair and proportionate.
I was at the Scottish caravan and camping exhibition recently, and there were plenty of small campers most with no fixed toilets. Are we actually saying that these vans should not be allowed to wild camp. If so what is this forum all about.

Yet again a sledgehammer has been used to crack a nut, yet again the actions of a few results in many who have done everything right being punished. And what about all those expensive campers what will they be worth if this was ever considered here. Those in New Zealand with small campers are not only having their rights removed if this happens, but are being financially punished also. From what I hear things are different there. But its a shame if they reckon punishing well behaved people due to the actions of others is fair.

I agree with the comments above but the problem in NZ is the vast number of estate type cars ‘converted’ to ‘campervans’. The users on the whole do not respect the wild camping aspect of touring the country. I am sorry to say again it is not a minority, I have seen the antics of them over nearly a year of touring NZ (two trips) and the resentment of the locals. It’s their country so we have to respect it.

 

[Fisherman]

I agree with the comments above but the problem in NZ is the vast number of estate type cars ‘converted’ to ‘campervans’. The users on the whole do not respect the wild camping aspect of touring the country. I am sorry to say again it is not a minority, I have seen the antics of them over nearly a year of touring NZ (two trips) and the resentment of the locals. It’s their country so we have to respect it.

I have never been to NZ so you have me at a disadvantage there. But surely a system registering suitable vehicles would be better. From what you and others have stated these issues involve cars or vans that have been “converted” for use. Once you have carried out any conversion it would be inspected at the cost of the owner before being allowed to WC. If you are caught without an appropriate vehicle then you would be heavily fined or for second offenders your vehicle would be impounded. To simply ban people who have spent a fortune on proper camper vans, and who have behaved properly seems draconian.

But what I don't understand here is there is no mention of tents. It appears from what I am reading that people would still be able to WC using tents. Up here in Scotland most of our problems come from tent users who simply don’t give a dam. I can see those with these vehicles simply migrating to tents, and behaving as before, whilst those who have properly converted camper vans being banned.

 

[Lefty]

Does New Zealand have a large network of motorhome service aires France style?

Or is it more U.K. like?

I’m guessing the public loos in more isolated parts of NZ are sceptic tank based so green tank additives would need to be used. After all, on board loo or not, black waste ultimately has to be disposed of.

I’m never going there but clearly this could give the U.K. government ideas.

A network of service points or a law permitting free access or a maximum fee access of say £3 to campsite service points would be a very good start.

After all the Spanish have a law by which all bars have to give unhindered access to their loos for all so why not give motorhome and camper van users free access to campsite service points as part of the licensing conditions?

Why would you expect something for free? Toilet paper and hot water to wash your hands cost as do the hand driers.
I do a service stop for up to three hours where you can dump out fill up and use my facilities for £5. Mill Meadow Campsite!

 

[Fisherman]

Why would you expect something for free? Toilet paper and hot water to wash your hands cost as do the hand driers.
I do a service stop for up to three hours where you can dump out fill up and use my facilities for £5. Mill Meadow Campsite!

As much as I am more than happy to pay and have paid to use such facilities, I don’t reckon it would be for free. We always leave donations at facilities who don’t charge such as on Arran, at Lochore in Fife, or elsewhere.
But when you consider how much tax we pay providing more facilities would seem both reasonable and prudent for environmental reasons. Others who cycle, or enjoy other pursuits have money spent on free facilities. I expect delivery of our third new van later this year when I have paid for it between the three vans I will have paid out around £40,000 in vat. Not to mention fuel duty, road tax, tax on insurance, servicing, testing, and repairing. As they say in Yorkshire you get nout for nout, but in our case it seems we simply get nout, and if we do get something we have to do what others don’t and pay for it. But I would rather pay for facilities, than not have them.

 

[izwozral]

Why would you expect something for free? Toilet paper and hot water to wash your hands cost as do the hand driers.
I do a service stop for up to three hours where you can dump out fill up and use my facilities for £5. Mill Meadow Campsite!

99% of all public loo's in NZ have toilet paper, most have soap or sanitizer, a lot have paper towels or hand dryers.
All loos are free as are the dump stations of which a there are many.
Camping is a culture and not just a past time in NZ.

Another thing about our stay here, we have never had to pay parking fees in the 10 months we have stayed in NZ.
If we did a similar trip in the UK, parking fees would likely run into thousands of pounds.

The first six months visit we did, we freedom camped all but four times saving thousands in camping fees. Wherever there was a donation box we were generous and of course we spent plenty on fuel, food, activities and admission fees.

NZ is vastly different to the UK and it has taken many years to get to this sorry mess. The Kiwi's have just had enough and I don't blame them.

 

[Fisherman]

99% of all public loo's in NZ have toilet paper, most have soap or sanitizer, a lot have paper towels or hand dryers.
All loos are free as are the dump stations of which a there are many.
Camping is a culture and not just a past time in NZ.

Another thing about our stay here, we have never had to pay parking fees in the 10 months we have stayed in NZ.
If we did a similar trip in the UK, parking fees would likely run into thousands of pounds.

The first six months visit we did, we freedom camped all but four times saving thousands in camping fees. Wherever there was a donation box we were generous and of course we spent plenty on fuel, food, activities and admission fees.

NZ is vastly different to the UK and it has taken many years to get to this sorry mess. The Kiwi's have just had enough and I don't blame them.

I think your last paragraph is where the problem may lay Ral.
It should not have been tolerated for many years.
Perhaps if measures were taken earlier this could have been avoided.

But my concern is the idiots who caused this will continue to do what they have been doing, possibly migrating to tents. And the decent folk who have spent much of their life’s savings and have done nothing wrong will be left with almost worthless vans.
Obviously comparing two similarly sized countries one with 12 times the other’s population is difficult. You can even see the differences in the U.K. Scotland having a more tolerant attitude than England. Enjoy the rest of your stay Ral.

 

[Chrisinchip]

I agree with the comments above but the problem in NZ is the vast number of estate type cars ‘converted’ to ‘campervans’. The users on the whole do not respect the wild camping aspect of touring the country. I am sorry to say again it is not a minority, I have seen the antics of them over nearly a year of touring NZ (two trips) and the resentment of the locals. It’s their country so we have to respect it.

Moreover, from my experience of touring NZ in 2019, there are either the converted cars or 6m+ Van/Moho. The 5m VW “in-between” size a rarity and I never saw a pop top. This supports the suggestion that NZ’s problem is with the converted car use.
In NZ Certification for Free Camping required a certain capacity for waste (and fresh water I think) based on the official sleeping capacity. Free Camping in an uncertificated vehicle attracts a fine. Having heard issues with vans in Scotland this sounded an excellent way of preserving the environment we travel to enjoy, remembering that motorhoming in NZ is big big big. So their certificate system is being abused and I can’t see that changing the law fixes the problem. In fact it seems to me that the waste tanks on cassette toilets are quite small, probably smaller than larger model portapottis. If I’m right (and happy to be corrected) then the built-in rule could miss the point.
Personally, built-in gets a thumbs down but I can reason an adequate installed capacity for fresh, gray and black for wild camping. However without anybody to enforce in the UK what’s the point.

 

[colinm]

remembering that motorhoming in NZ is big big big.

34 years ago out of season I toured NZ, 11 years ago I drove around what was to become the NC500 during Scottish schools holiday time. The proportion of vans in NZ was vastly higher than on NC500, I can only guess at how many there are now.

 

[trevskoda]

Even if things get registered there are those that will still drop the caks anywhere they like, here we get it in sand dunes around Portrush during summer and race week.