New Safe Gas Refill adapter

[walkers]

Bottles used for bottled water also carry the same warning. Never head of anyone having an acident refilling a bottle EVER, so the insurance problem does not arise, many other things invalidate your insurance, like overloading, dodgy tyres, carrying too much spare fuel in cans onboard. Why not shout about those as well. Further more these do have an overfillcutoff protection built in. How it works I don't know but then I don't understand how a lot of things work, doesn't stop me using them.
I have had my say and will not post on this matter again. The original post was for information only for those enlightened enough to understand how to use such a thing, for those who have no need to cut costs, why bother anyway. And those who just like to argue, well so be it.

water is not a flammable gas under pressure, you know the risks and you think they are negligable it is your choice.

 

[Deleted member 775]

Wildman,

Forgive not staying on topic but this could be of interest to some.

It might have been me who caused the council to drop their worrying about people parking overnight on their car parks. I got a ticket. Woke up to find a ticket on the driver's window, camping, cooking, sleeping.

I didn't pay it.

I accused them of creeping round in the middle of the night targetting just ME. I said I would prove that in court because I'd ask them to produce overtime records for the parking attendants and see if it was routine to provide parking patrols in the middle of the night.

Then I said that they would have to prove that I was sleeping in the van because they'd obviously not knocked on the door – or maybe they had knocked on the door and there was no answer because I wasn't there.

The final thing was that I used this http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/977180.council_powerless_to_ban_camper_vans/ as an example of councils telling fibs about what powers they had to control overnight parking, and that I couldn't understand why councils had to lie to council tax payers. I would make them prove in court they truly did have the power to give me a ticket - they call it an excess charge notice.

They tried to get me to pay the fine while they looked at the circumstances again warning me that the fine would be greater if I didn't pay within so many days. I told them that there was no chance of me giving them an interest free loan and I would tell the court about their intimidation. However, I did pay online by credit card quoting only the notice serial number and not putting my name on it.

All this done by email from Ilfracombe High Street.

The fine was cancelled, but they didn't tell me why, and they did notice that I had paid because the fine was refunded to my credit card. I was desperate to know why they had cancelled it but we were on our way to France and by the time we got back I couldn't be bothered.

But, there you are, the more relaxed attitude could have been down to me. We'll be in Ilfracombe again some time this year. There's a carpark part way up the hill out of Hele Bay towards Combe Martin looks a good place to stay, yes?

Tom

good on you the more people that act as you do then mabey the british people will be listened to instead of local and national government after all it is us that pay there wages and give them the right to govern so why dont we have the last say

 

[Deleted member 3011]

I assume this adaptor is for refilling the bottle next to an autogas dispenser.

Best check would be to go in and tell the attendand what you are doing and see how they react.

Someone mentioned a pressure gauge to get an idea how full the bottle is. Doesn't work because the gas pressure is a function of the temperature of the liquid and is essentially independant of how much or how little liquid is in the bottle. Only reliable way is a probe or float system similar to what is in your fuel tank.

it is clearly marked with the 80% fill rate for an empty bottle so you cannot go wrong.

I assume this is one of the transparent bottles.

Worth repeating again - you CAN"T measure LPG liquid volume by measuring gas pressure.


That ebay device does not incorporate an 80% indicator. Works on pressure only

 

[tommy0121]

gas refills and parking up

i was interested in wildmans comments about gas refills, firstly, whatever subject comes up, any topic, what comes across clearly is a distinct lack of bloody common sense, i see it all the time,

as for gas refills, i was on cannock chase a couple of years ago when i ran out of gas, a friendly camper directed me to to a refill station just outside of penkridge, up i pulled and the guy came out looking for the filler cap, it dawned on me after a bit and the guy said, oh ok, pulled the 13lb bottle out put a adaptor on and filled it saying they didnt normally fill fill bottles but would do it,--nothing about being illegal, --and i wernt gonna ask,. after the fill i asked how much he knew how to fill it? simple, he just put in the required amount, -regulated,-that was good enough for me, as for insurance??? well if i was asked?-if- i would just use my comman sense and keep my mouth shut,.

2, as for camping in ilfracombe,, when i lived down there peaple used to park overnight down on the harbour car park, 24 hour parking, quite legal, and many did it, in the winter we would take our boats out and store them up for the winter, maybe its changed, but again, if i hit a strange town, i have a look around, ask a local official, parking attendant etc, and they generally point me in the right direction,--for one or two nights,--

now for my question,, im of to france, into spain and down into morroco in the next few days, do,s anyone know the stuation for gas refills there?? i know there are gas stations, im just hoping they will have adaptors,. cheers

 

[t&s]

i think it would be an idea to take a selection of your own adaptors
and even then you might have to by one en route
i have no proof but be prepared just incase

 

[t&s]

AT YOUR PERRIL
it is possible to fill small bottles from a 47 kg
just connect the two bottles with the 47 kg inverted and above the one you are filling and open the taps wait a while and job done
the pressure will remain the same as none escapes or is added
this it totaly ilegal and dangerous
but i do know of people who have been doing it for years
and they are still here to tell the tale

 

[italiano]

We people in general are like monkeys ie, see, do, copy or mimic, whilst on holiday in southern Italy, Puglia to be exact, not far from the camp site entrance there was a garage with coffee bar and a little shop, in the morning i used to go there for a little expresso, and sitting outside i could watch the world go by and the petrol attendant filling up all sorts of gas bottles with what i found out later a home made pipe/screw on adapter, anyhow one morning i happened to have a conversation with the bloke, and i asked him how did know when the bottle was full? Well he gave me a s trange look as though i was a martian then slowly he told me, ie. if a bottle holds 12 kilos of gas then you just fill it with 10 or 11 kilos this equates to 20 or 22 litres of gas, this he emphasised on ie. you must leave at least 2 to 4 litres safety gap as expansion safety well thats the way the Italians do it!!!

 

[tresrikay]

I used to run adventure coach camping tours around Euope in the 80's and of course we used to have to refill our bottles of gas. We always found a gas bottle filling company to use, sometimes travelling many miles to find one.
Even then they had specific safety procedures to fill the bottles, using calibrated scales.
I have no shares in Gaslow but what I do have is a sound certificated education in health and safety.
Wildman has an appropriate name and his safety is in his own hands and the consequences are also in his hands.
however to come on to this forum, encouraging people to use an unsound, unested and unverified adaptor is in my opinion reckless and should under no way be acted upon by any one with any regard to their own health and safety.
As telstar has pointed out , calor or any other merchants bottles must only be fiilled by the company.......... if you dont and the worst happens....... YOU are not insured.
If you adapt or in any way convert that companies device......... you are negating your insurance.
If you fill a non recognized device in a filling station and the worst was to happen you would be liable to the consequences of all the carnage that would follow both financially and criminally and would probably face a very long term in prison.


My horror is that I might innocently be filling up next to one of these irrisponsibles when their D.I.Y penny pinching twiddling results in ARMAGEDON.

 

[walkers]

When the fire investigator finds your 'diy' refilling device amongst the remains of your motorhome, that is when you will find your insurance company walking away from your claim.

 

[bevo]

refilling gas bottles

hi
i was looking at a gas refill adapter on e bay, on the adapter it states how much gas ( in litres) to put into empty bottles of various sizes, to conform to the 80% refill rule, seems straight forward to me, and if i used a lot of gas i would go down this road.
you just have to make sure the bottles are empty.

live long and prosper

 

[Deleted member 207]

Just to bite into this debate. Usual disclaimer applies as I will have missed something important.

There are a whole range of methods of achieving safe fill of gas bottles and cylinders.

The simplest is the BBQ bottle which has a bleed valve/screw connected to a tube which stops at the safe fill liquid mark, gas is allowed to escape until liquid appears, the bottle is then at safe fill water capacity. Only one type of gas can be filled into the bottle as the safe fill varies slighlty from gas to gas. Filling is usually done from a large cylinder and no pump is involved.

Weighing is very risky unless the bottle is known to be completely empty or someone has the time to compare the Tare weight of the bottle to actual and then do the calculation of what can be put into the bottle.

The next is a dial guage used on larger storage tanks, it has a bleed valve. A tube can be rotated inside the tank to establish the liquid level and read off a scale, again it uses the escape of gas and then liquid to establish the level of liquid gas in the tank. These guages can cope with multiple gases and usually large and have pumps attached.

The next is a simple dial guage which shows the liquid level with no escape of gas or liquid whilst filling which is now the preferred method as no gas is lost. BUT only one type of gas can be put into a bottle as the safe fill level is determined by the gas and will vary from Propane, Butane and Propane/Butane/Butadienne (Autogas mixture). Larger dial guages can be used which will show safe fill for different gases, but are usually only fitted onto refinery storage tanks.

Additionally now all service station filling pumps (should???) will have a back pressure cut out so that when the pressure inside the bottle/cylinder reaches the pressure for the gas to remain liquid it turns off - remember the only reason you can put liquid into the tank is that the gas can be compressed. When the gas pressure inside the cylinder reaches the pressure that the liquid cannot revert to gas then the bottle is at its safe fill - as long as the design engineers have done their job on the bottles. The design pressure of a gas bottle is way above the pressure required to keep the gas as a liquid.

The next issue is that the appliances will jetted for a certain type of gas, using Autogas in a Propane or Butane system is potentially dangerous as they can burn incorrectly and produce too much carbon monoxide - say the gas companies, but I'm not so sure about that.

Universal appliances designed to operate on Autogas generally dont have problems, but have to run at higher pressure (50mBar) versus the the Propane/Butane systems which run at 30mBar.