New Safe Gas Refill adapter

[wildman]

Why pay £16 for a 6kg gas bottle when you can do it yourself for around £6. Gas refill adapters have been around for a few years, now you can get one with overfill protection thereby answering all the major objections voiced in the past

<Link to Gas refill adapter on eBay>

needless to say I have no connection with the firm at all.
Check it out and start saving money right away.

 

[ianmorgan]

Why pay £16 for a 6kg gas bottle when you can do it yourself for around £6. Gas refill adapters have been around for a few years, now you can get one with overfill protection thereby answering all the major objections voiced in the past

<Link to Gas refill adapter on eBay>

needless to say I have no connection with the firm at all.
Check it out and start saving money right away.

are they easy to use

 

[wildman]

I use one without to overfill protection, it is clearly marked with the 80% fill rate for an empty bottle so you cannot go wrong. I have been using one of those for years, you just have to remember what you are doing, open and close valve at the right time, common sense and comes with full instructions.If you are unsure about following simple instructions don't get one. Simple as that.

 

[peppers]

are they easy to use

very easy just use a bit of noddle

 

[maureenandtom]

I agree fully. No system is safe without a bit of common I use the Gaslow system but I'd have no qualms about using an adapter like this. As far as I can see this adapter still doesn't cut off filling automatically but there is a gauge of some kind which must be a pressure gauge rather than a measure of volume. So overfilling still possible but you'll know you're doing it. I'd love to see just how it works.

The link does say, however, "WILL FILL PARTIALLY FULL BOTTLES" which I think is the main problem with the original adapter Wildman told us about. This implies an automatic shut off or somehow calculating capacity by volume. The original adapters would have problems filling partially full bottles to capacity in safety. You'd want to start with an empty bottle.

I first saw adapters being used by a Belgian campervanner in France quite a few years ago. Leo, not you? His adapters, he used two of them, he had had made up by his Blacksmith boyfriend. I tried not to react especially as his wife didn't seem concerned but I couldn't help questioning him a little and found out it was just a little language difficulty. His adapters had been made by a friend who was a man and who was also a blacksmith. I wanted such adapters for myself but, not having a boyfriend who was a blacksmith, I had to wait for Gaslow.

Tom

 

[TWS]

This may be a silly question, but where would one fill up a propane bottle ? I just paid just under £17.00 for a 6KG bottle up in Fort William from a local garage on Sunday.

Thanks Tom

 

[tresrikay]

AT YOUR PERIL, Gas at these pressures are a time bomb and your M/H is ground zero.
Without scales you will not know when you are 80% full and if you over fill......... It is also illegal to fill a bootle not classed and certified with an overfil protector so should the worst happen your insurance will be void........ Gaslow somehow does not seem that expensive when you consider the alternative. One mans common sense is another mans misadventure.

 

[mick noe]

I agree fully. No system is safe without a bit of common I use the Gaslow system but I'd have no qualms about using an adapter like this. As far as I can see this adapter still doesn't cut off filling automatically but there is a gauge of some kind which must be a pressure gauge rather than a measure of volume. So overfilling still possible but you'll know you're doing it. I'd love to see just how it works.

The link does say, however, "WILL FILL PARTIALLY FULL BOTTLES" which I think is the main problem with the original adapter Wildman told us about. This implies an automatic shut off or somehow calculating capacity by volume. The original adapters would have problems filling partially full bottles to capacity in safety. You'd want to start with an empty bottle.

I first saw adapters being used by a Belgian campervanner in France quite a few years ago. Leo, not you? His adapters, he used two of them, he had had made up by his Blacksmith boyfriend. I tried not to react especially as his wife didn't seem concerned but I couldn't help questioning him a little and found out it was just a little language difficulty. His adapters had been made by a friend who was a man and who was also a blacksmith. I wanted such adapters for myself but, not having a boyfriend who was a blacksmith, I had to wait for Gaslow.

Tom

sorry to be asking a stupid question..... but are we talking about filling standard gas bottles not exchanging them? If so would garages be ok with this. and what would be the consequences of overfilling

 

[Deleted member 775]

to me if you want to refill a gas bottle then a purpose built one as per gas low ok, but as for refilling a standard exchange one is asking for trouble. ok quite a few companies refill the red bottles on fork trucks from a large storage tank but they have all the equipment to do so safely. also when you refill a bottle do you remember to discharge any static from the van or bottle that may have built up. gas is worse than petrol the least little mistake and night night you may save a few quid but what price safety. lots of things are for sale on ebay but it dont mean they are safe or legal

 

[maureenandtom]

It is also illegal to fill a bootle not classed and certified with an overfil protector so should the worst happen your insurance will be void...

Well that solves that then. It's illegal. Don't use them.

However, I've searched and can't find a reference to illegality. Source please.

Tom

 

[maureenandtom]

sorry to be asking a stupid question..... but are we talking about filling standard gas bottles not exchanging them? If so would garages be ok with this. and what would be the consequences of overfilling

Not a stupid question at all. Both very sensible. Yes, we're talking about refilling not exchanging.

Legality of filling gas bottles. I truly don't know. Some say that it is illegal but I've never found any source that confirms this. Experience, however, and logic tell me that re-filling gas bottles must be legal. For example, my van runs on LPG and I know of one other regular contributor here who also uses LPG as motor fuel. For the most part,however. our vans are petrol or diesel fuelled and any motor caravan filling up with LPG is likely to be filling bottles. I've never been challenged at any filling station though a fair number of attendants must have suspected that I was filling bottles. Of course, many times I am filling a fuel tank and bottles too. I think it must be legal and I do believe that the bottles I use are completely legal.

Consequences of Overfilling. Could be catastrophic. The problem as I understand it is that there must be a space in the bottle sufficient to contain any expansion of the liquid due to a rise in temperature. A rise in temperature will make the liquid expand and possibly vent from the bottle through a safety device or even deliver liquid gas to your fridge or cooker. Gas, as a gas, is hugely greater in volume than as a liquid and you could have a pretty spectacular fireball. It gets worse. An escape of gas into the van will possibly explode. Those with knowledge have calculated that if a container is filled to only 80& of its capacity there will always be enough room in the container for expansion. A cut off valve will be actuated by a float just like in your lavatory at home and it will be impossible to fill a bottle to more than 80%.

You have to be aware of risks and do your research into them. Mainly your safety is otherwise taken care of by sealing off your gas locker from the van living area and venting any escaping gas to the outside. This vent will be in the base of your locker since the gases we use are heavier than air and will sink.

I've made it look dire because it is. Most people will agree with me. Where I begin to disagree with many is that I believe in the innate intelligence of people, many others do not and prefer legislation to minimise risks.

My solution is to use tanks with an inbuilt cut off valve (the Gaslow system) and I trust these valves to work. Most people will trust bottles like this, some will not. There must be a failure rate but I haven't heard of a valve not working.

The problem is overfilling. There is a potential solution to this problem. I've never seen one but I've heard that there are modern bottles which are see-through. You can see see the level of liquid in the bottle. So mark a line at 80% and fill this far and no more. Is the problem now solved? I think it is but I'd like to hear from the doubters.

Tom

 

[walkers]

If you read the bottle it clearly states that it should not be filled by anyone other than the suppliers or their agents. That warning would instantly negate your insurance if you filled it yourself. Don't think you will find many refuelling stations that would be happy to allow you to either go with a properly designed sysstem with shut off valves fitted to prevent over filling or just buy the refills at an authorised outlet ITS YOUR SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ALSO OTHER ROAD USERS AND CAMPERS.

 

[wildman]

how many I wonder have READ THE ORIGINAL POST. the adaptor that I gave details of has a pressure cut off valve, you cannot overfill. I use one without and only fill empty bottles. I can work out 80% of total contents even though it is marked on the bottle adaptor. LPG (which is propane) is available in most service stations. The firms that fill their fork lift truck bottles from a larger tank use a similar adaptor. Many years ago I saw a gas bottle in use laid on its side under a motorhome, and come to think of it forklift trucks use standard propane bottles on their side, so the safety issue is not on of liquid gas getting in the line, the regulator takes care of that. It is more a case of the designed safety factor of the bottle. Those who have an absolute horror of refilling bottles obviously are incapable of reading, understanding and following simple instructions, yet they would fill an LPG car tank or a gaslow bottle, no sense in that at all. These adaptors are made to a standard, do not contain ferrous metals that could cause a spark. And are safe to use, if they were not we would have heard about it by now. I suspect the people who throw up their hands in horror, actually have shares in calor gas, gaslow, or some other financial reason to put you off. I have no connection with anyone, I am just another satisfied customer who hates living in a rip off society.

 

[wildman]

If you read the bottle it clearly states that it should not be filled by anyone other than the suppliers or their agents. That warning would instantly negate your insurance if you filled it yourself. Don't think you will find many refuelling stations that would be happy to allow you to either go with a properly designed sysstem with shut off valves fitted to prevent over filling or just buy the refills at an authorised outlet ITS YOUR SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ALSO OTHER ROAD USERS AND CAMPERS.

Bottles used for bottled water also carry the same warning. Never head of anyone having an acident refilling a bottle EVER, so the insurance problem does not arise, many other things invalidate your insurance, like overloading, dodgy tyres, carrying too much spare fuel in cans onboard. Why not shout about those as well. Further more these do have an overfillcutoff protection built in. How it works I don't know but then I don't understand how a lot of things work, doesn't stop me using them.
I have had my say and will not post on this matter again. The original post was for information only for those enlightened enough to understand how to use such a thing, for those who have no need to cut costs, why bother anyway. And those who just like to argue, well so be it.

 

[orian]

Well said Roger. You brought this info to us and it is our own choice whether we take up the offer. I hate to see people shooting the messenger!

 

[maureenandtom]

Yes, I agree with Orian. Thank you Wildman for the information.

It's a British disease very common among jobsworth petty officials. Always looking for a way of not doing things rather than looking for ways of doing things.

Walkers, you're echoing a parking attendant (in Ilfracombe of all places, Wildman) who quite seriously said about my potentially overnight parking on Oxford Grove Car Park in the town ITS YOUR SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ALSO OTHER ROAD USERS. If those weren't the words exactly, he spoke words very like them. He spoke in capitals and he also told me that my insurance would be invalid because the council clearly stated that camping, cooking, sleeping wasn't allowed.

The trouble is that as soon as somebody says "IT'S SAFETY" we're now geared up to listen and introducing a debate somehow makes us unsafe people. Not so, this thread should simply be a debate about an issue and should never be used to give opinions as though they are facts.

Tom

 

[bigtrev8xl]

how many I wonder have READ THE ORIGINAL POST. the adaptor that I gave details of has a pressure cut off valve, you cannot overfill. I use one without and only fill empty bottles. I can work out 80% of total contents even though it is marked on the bottle adaptor. LPG (which is propane) is available in most service stations. The firms that fill their fork lift truck bottles from a larger tank use a similar adaptor. Many years ago I saw a gas bottle in use laid on its side under a motorhome, and come to think of it forklift trucks use standard propane bottles on their side, so the safety issue is not on of liquid gas getting in the line, the regulator takes care of that. It is more a case of the designed safety factor of the bottle. Those who have an absolute horror of refilling bottles obviously are incapable of reading, understanding and following simple instructions, yet they would fill an LPG car tank or a gaslow bottle, no sense in that at all. These adaptors are made to a standard, do not contain ferrous metals that could cause a spark. And are safe to use, if they were not we would have heard about it by now. I suspect the people who throw up their hands in horror, actually have shares in calor gas, gaslow, or some other financial reason to put you off. I have no connection with anyone, I am just another satisfied customer who hates living in a rip off society.

Hi Roger
“Many years ago I saw a gas bottle in use laid on its side under a motorhome, and come to think of it forklift trucks use standard propane bottles on their side, so the safety issue is not on of liquid gas getting in the line, the regulator takes care of that”

The gas bottles used on forklifts are not the same as the ones used for camping, the pick up tube has a 90 degree bend on it, when you fit a gas bottle to a forklift there’s an arrow on it indicating up. Because forklifts use liquid take off, where as camping appliances use vapour take off. If you lay a camping gas bottle on its side if it’s more than about half full you’ll get liquid coming out instead of gas vapour, gas appliances in motorhomes etc don’t like it, and bloody dangerous.

Cheers Big Trev.

 

[andytheplumber]

Hi Roger
“Many years ago I saw a gas bottle in use laid on its side under a motorhome, and come to think of it forklift trucks use standard propane bottles on their side, so the safety issue is not on of liquid gas getting in the line, the regulator takes care of that”

The gas bottles used on forklifts are not the same as the ones used for camping, the pick up tube has a 90 degree bend on it, when you fit a gas bottle to a forklift there’s an arrow on it indicating up. Because forklifts use liquid take off, where as camping appliances use vapour take off. If you lay a camping gas bottle on its side if it’s more than about half full you’ll get liquid coming out instead of gas vapour, gas appliances in motorhomes etc don’t like it, and bloody dangerous.

Cheers Big Trev.

Totally agree,Although theres alot of debate here,i agree theres a 80percent fill theres also 7bar of gas there.you will find the spec of any gas carry part in the bs standards,if the part hasnt got the stamp it aint ok.If I was going to do it I would be using scales untill I knew how much litres of gas a EMPTY bottle would hold.

 

[wildman]

Yes, I agree with Orian. Thank you Wildman for the information.

It's a British disease very common among jobsworth petty officials. Always looking for a way of not doing things rather than looking for ways of doing things.

Walkers, you're echoing a parking attendant (in Ilfracombe of all places, Wildman) who quite seriously said about my potentially overnight parking on Oxford Grove Car Park in the town ITS YOUR SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ALSO OTHER ROAD USERS. If those weren't the words exactly, he spoke words very like them. He spoke in capitals and he also told me that my insurance would be invalid because the council clearly stated that camping, cooking, sleeping wasn't allowed.

The trouble is that as soon as somebody says "IT'S SAFETY" we're now geared up to listen and introducing a debate somehow makes us unsafe people. Not so, this thread should simply be a debate about an issue and should never be used to give opinions as though they are facts.

Tom

wonderful quote,using a motorhome for what its designed for will invaladate your insurance just because someone says you can't park here, what utter twaddle. as a matter of interest I've spoken to several of the parking attendants in Ilfracombe about overnighting in various carparks, most said it is a council problem not under their duristriction, if someone complains to the council, the council will get the police to move you on. The police said they would not take action unless asked by the council, traffic wardens have this year moved from being a sub dept of the police force to being a sub department of the local council so possibly what I was originally told has now changed. In any case there are plenty of secluded laybyes just outside of the town where you would not be bothered.

 

[maureenandtom]

... as a matter of interest I've spoken to several of the parking attendants in Ilfracombe about overnighting in various carparks, most said it is a council problem not under their duristriction, if someone complains to the council, the council will get the police to move you on. .... In any case there are plenty of secluded laybyes just outside of the town where you would not be bothered.

Wildman,

Forgive not staying on topic but this could be of interest to some.

It might have been me who caused the council to drop their worrying about people parking overnight on their car parks. I got a ticket. Woke up to find a ticket on the driver's window, camping, cooking, sleeping.

I didn't pay it.

I accused them of creeping round in the middle of the night targetting just ME. I said I would prove that in court because I'd ask them to produce overtime records for the parking attendants and see if it was routine to provide parking patrols in the middle of the night.

Then I said that they would have to prove that I was sleeping in the van because they'd obviously not knocked on the door – or maybe they had knocked on the door and there was no answer because I wasn't there.

The final thing was that I used this http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/977180.council_powerless_to_ban_camper_vans/ as an example of councils telling fibs about what powers they had to control overnight parking, and that I couldn't understand why councils had to lie to council tax payers. I would make them prove in court they truly did have the power to give me a ticket - they call it an excess charge notice.

They tried to get me to pay the fine while they looked at the circumstances again warning me that the fine would be greater if I didn't pay within so many days. I told them that there was no chance of me giving them an interest free loan and I would tell the court about their intimidation. However, I did pay online by credit card quoting only the notice serial number and not putting my name on it.

All this done by email from Ilfracombe High Street.

The fine was cancelled, but they didn't tell me why, and they did notice that I had paid because the fine was refunded to my credit card. I was desperate to know why they had cancelled it but we were on our way to France and by the time we got back I couldn't be bothered.

But, there you are, the more relaxed attitude could have been down to me. We'll be in Ilfracombe again some time this year. There's a carpark part way up the hill out of Hele Bay towards Combe Martin looks a good place to stay, yes?

Tom