Motorhome parking along Aberystwyth promenade

[Deleted member 967]

Ceredigion County Council held a meeting on 9 September 2014 to consider options to prevent the overnight parking of Caravan, Caravanette, Motorhome (and other vehicles equipped for sleeping and cooking) along lengths of New Promenade / South Marine Terrace, Aberystwyth.

http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/Democr...nities - file 2 (Report 6 up to option 3).pdf

Option 2. Introduce a TRO to prevent overnight parking (between the hours of 11pm and 8am) along both sides of New Promenade and South Marine Terrace
(along its entire length) from the Pier southwards to the New Promenade Car Park by the specific type / use of vehicle (i.e. vehicles that are either designed
or adapted for sleeping / cooking in). As indicated in the option 2 plans. This will cost in the region of £12,000 to introduce.

Option 3. As option 2, but not including the seaward length of New Promenade between the HUT and the Pier as indicated on the option 3 plan. This will cost in the
region of £10,000 to introduce. Effectively this will remove the issues from the residential properties in South Marine Terrace but still allow overnight parking (for these types of vehicle) for the remainder of the New Promenade on its seaward side.

The recommended proposal put forward by Cllr Alun Williams – Environmental Services, Assets, Transport and Carbon Management. Ceredigion County Council was option 3 From a reliable source they have opted for option 2.

I don't think this has helped our cause from a letter received from Cllr Alun Williams

I don't know if you are aware but, when we proposed some less stringent proposals earlier on in the year, one motorhome owning gentleman took it upon himself to make intimidatory phone calls to local residents along the Prom, saying that he was going to organise the whole motorhome fraternity to make their lives unbearable. Many of these phone calls were recorded and made available to the police.

Although I don't believe he was representative of other owners, that episode obviously panicked people and the Council have consequently come under pressure to take stronger action. The threats were therefore a complete own goal.

 

[666jw]

Afternoon John, is this numpty known to us !!

 

[Deleted member 967]

That I do not know. I have asked Cllr Alun Williams for more detail and what action if any the Police took. I am awaiting a reply.

I did also ask about the reported complaints and he replied "However it should also be recognised that concern about the issues raised cannot be measured by official complaints. All councillors in Aberystwyth, both Town and County, receive regular representations from residents about motorhomes and I have personally had to address a packed meeting of angry residents who were not satisfied that enough was being done to limit them in the area." They all trot out, that they have received complaints but the info is never available or is misquoted if any is produced. It would appear that most complaints are simply hearsay, as only those that are officially logged should be counted and acted upon.

The council and local business say they welcome motorhomes but do not want over stayers. Yet they take no action against the ones who have been there since March, but agree a ban the will prevent all motorhome users from staying instead.

Overnight parking is permitted in New Promenade car park and I asked if the council would consider removing/not applying the no sleeping/cooking ban. He replied "On the question of the use of the New Promenade car park, this is not as straightforward as it might seem and I have asked one of our officers to respond to you". I am awaiting that response.

 

[John H]

Whoever this "gentleman" is, the whole sorry saga is a perfect example of how and why aggressive tactics do not work - yet some continue to bury their heads in the sand.

 

[theredman]

Telephone threats

Quote "one motorhome owning gentleman took it upon himself to make intimidatory phone calls to local residents along the Prom, saying that he was going to organise the whole motorhome fraternity to make their lives unbearable" quote

Very dubious , as a motorhome owner I would not have a clue how to obtain the telephone numbers of anyone in Aberystwyth and more precisely "along the prom"
The fact the calls were recorded seems very suspicious to me, must just be my distrust of councillors !

 

[Val54]

Only a guess, but I'm thinking there must be some guest houses and/ or b&b's along the prom, so not too hard to find them?
Dave

 

[Rich and Sarah]

last thing i read was that the over night parking ban was to start from 1st April.2015, is this still true ?. oh i met a motorhome user who had stayed a while knew all the tricks and regulaly ran a 2 stroke genny.. Not a good idea i thought. Maybe it is these sorts of actions that have prompted the b and b owners to complain. i did think what a muppet as he was telling me but thought better of telling him !

 

[pheasantplucker]

Only a guess, but I'm thinking there must be some guest houses and/ or b&b's along the prom, so not too hard to find them?
Dave

Several years ago in my pre-motorhome days, trying to find a hotel room along the seafront was impossible. Most of the establishments had been converted into flats or student accommodation, from what I could make out.

 

[dippingatoe]

So far my trip into Wales isn't looking good then. Crossed Severn Bridge and rain came down with a vengeance, followed by sleet hail and a lot more rain, then it stopped a bit, then more and more rain. My cough and cold went into overdrive.

There is nowhere to stop in Saunderfoot, Tenby doesn't like motorhomes, Aberystwyth is banning them.......

By the way doing a google on Aberystwyth I wouldnt fancy parking on the seafront anyway
Aberystwyth Flooding & Severe Weather - Alexanders Estate Agency and that was on the Estate Agents page

 

[jagmanx]

My submission


About your concern / complaint
Name of the department / section / service you are complaining about
(max 2000 characters)jagmanx@talk21.comWhat do you think they did wrong, or failed to do?
(max 2000 characters)Cllr Alun Williams – Environmental Services, Assets,
Transport and Carbon Management.
Proposed banning of Motorhome from PromenadeDescribe how you personally have suffered or have been affected
(max 2000 characters)Dear Sirs,
I fully support the ban on Overnight parking/sleeping

However the proposed ban on Daytime parking is both an outrage and discriminatory.
So it is simply wrong !
You are also "shooting yourself in the foot".
If the proposals effectively ban motorhomes this will be publicised on various motorhome websites and thus your tourism will suffer.What do you think should be done to put things right?
(max 2000 characters)You might also consider setting up suitably organised overnight parking to encourage visits.
This could command a fee of between £5 and £10 dependent on facilities availableWhen did you first become aware of the problem?
(max 2000 characters)TodayHave you already put your concern to the staff responsible for delivering the service? If so, please explain how and when you did so
(max 2000 characters)NoIf it is more that 6 months since you became first aware of the problem, please give the reason why you have not complained before now
(max 2000 characters)No

 

[Deleted member 967]

About your concern / complaint
Name of the department / section / service you are complaining about
(max 2000 characters)jagmanx@talk21.comWhat do you think they did wrong, or failed to do?
(max 2000 characters)Cllr Alun Williams – Environmental Services, Assets,
Transport and Carbon Management.
Proposed banning of Motorhome from PromenadeDescribe how you personally have suffered or have been affected
(max 2000 characters)Dear Sirs,
I fully support the ban on Overnight parking/sleeping

However the proposed ban on Daytime parking is both an outrage and discriminatory.
So it is simply wrong !
You are also "shooting yourself in the foot".
If the proposals effectively ban motorhomes this will be publicised on various motorhome websites and thus your tourism will suffer.What do you think should be done to put things right?
(max 2000 characters)You might also consider setting up suitably organised overnight parking to encourage visits.
This could command a fee of between £5 and £10 dependent on facilities availableWhen did you first become aware of the problem?
(max 2000 characters)TodayHave you already put your concern to the staff responsible for delivering the service? If so, please explain how and when you did so
(max 2000 characters)NoIf it is more that 6 months since you became first aware of the problem, please give the reason why you have not complained before now
(max 2000 characters)No

Hi Jagmax. We at The Motorhome Tourism Organisation have been in correspondence with Cllr Williams and Ceredigion County Council for well over a year on these issues. See our Facebook Group page https://www.facebook.com/groups/tmcto/ for more info on this and other issues. We have suggested that they allow overnight stays in the car park. At present it is overnight parking for Motorhomes, but no sleeping, cooking or eating. I have sent information about Fylde and Canterbury to them.

The big problem is overstaying our welcome, waste disposal and monopolisation of the area. The owners of the two eating establishments on the prom are the instigators and prime movers of this ban, claiming that the motorhomes monopolise the parking, so that other users are unable to park. This has been on going for a long time with Motorcycle users as their last target for monopolisation of the parking.

We made submissions to earlier proposals which would have limited stays of all vehicles.

This order is being implemented as an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order and as such the first 6 months is the period of consultation where they are required consider any complaints and and make amendments to the order. The order need to be renewed again 18 month max from its inception. There is limited scope for it being extended for another period. If they wish to make this permanent they have to go through a full consultation process before the order is approved. They have claimed it will be too expensive and local property owners will object to the car parks overnight use. However they can find the money to erect signage for the new ban.

This is the same process the Scarborough Borough Council and North Yorkshire County Council are going through at present. We formally respond to all of these consultation.

 

[wanderlust51]

So far my trip into Wales isn't looking good then. Crossed Severn Bridge and rain came down with a vengeance, followed by sleet hail and a lot more rain, then it stopped a bit, then more and more rain. My cough and cold went into overdrive.

There is nowhere to stop in Saunderfoot, Tenby doesn't like motorhomes, Aberystwyth is banning them.......

By the way doing a google on Aberystwyth I wouldnt fancy parking on the seafront anyway
Aberystwyth Flooding & Severe Weather - Alexanders Estate Agency and that was on the Estate Agents page

Try wisemans bridge,lots of campers staying there last year

 

[dippingatoe]

That's kind thanks.

Do you mean the campsite there? Unfortunately it is not open at present anyway, plus my sole reason for visiting Saundersfoot was to try the new restaurant there - Will Holland at The Coast - and at nearly two and a half miles there and back it would be too far for my mobility scooter to manage. Irritatingly there is a large carpark right next to the restaurant, but it has apparently had height barriers installed now - they said I could park at the back of the restaurant, but on google earthing it I think it would be very tight for me.

So I am giving Saundersfoot a miss, and may just do a 'drive through' on Tenby - if they dislike motorhomers that much it won't be pleasant to stop long anyway. Not sure about Aberystwyth yet, may just give it a miss and head back towards the Midlands.

Does anyone know if the Submerged Forest at Borth is visible at present?

 

[wanderlust51]

That's kind thanks.

Do you mean the campsite there? Unfortunately it is not open at present anyway, plus my sole reason for visiting Saundersfoot was to try the new restaurant there - Will Holland at The Coast - and at nearly two and a half miles there and back it would be too far for my mobility scooter to manage. Irritatingly there is a large carpark right next to the restaurant, but it has apparently had height barriers installed now - they said I could park at the back of the restaurant, but on google earthing it I think it would be very tight for me.

So I am giving Saundersfoot a miss, and may just do a 'drive through' on Tenby - if they dislike motorhomers that much it won't be pleasant to stop long anyway. Not sure about Aberystwyth yet, may just give it a miss and head back towards the Midlands.

Does anyone know if the Submerged Forest at Borth is visible at present?

No,on the front,just before the bridge,wild camp,the restaurant is about half a mile along the coastal path,accessable with a scooter through a tunnel at the end near the carpark that you mentioned,have a look on google map

 

[dippingatoe]

Thanks for that - off to google now

 

[antiqueman]

Option 2. Introduce a TRO to prevent overnight parking (between the hours of 11pm and 8am) along both sides of New Promenade and South Marine Terrace
(along its entire length) from the Pier southwards to the New Promenade Car Park by the specific type / use of vehicle (i.e. vehicles that are either designed
or adapted for sleeping / cooking in). As indicated in the option 2 plans. This will cost in the region of £12,000 to introduce.

12 grand to put a sign up amazing suppose it keeps folk in work. I would think motorhome owners spend lots more than that in town over 12 months. I spent 300 quid in 12 hours, did not stay overnight but I might have.

what was option 1?

 

[Deleted member 967]

Option 2. Introduce a TRO to prevent overnight parking (between the hours of 11pm and 8am) along both sides of New Promenade and South Marine Terrace
(along its entire length) from the Pier southwards to the New Promenade Car Park by the specific type / use of vehicle (i.e. vehicles that are either designed
or adapted for sleeping / cooking in). As indicated in the option 2 plans. This will cost in the region of £12,000 to introduce.

12 grand to put a sign up amazing suppose it keeps folk in work. I would think motorhome owners spend lots more than that in town over 12 months. I spent 300 quid in 12 hours, did not stay overnight but I might have.

what was option 1?

These were the options taken from a Council Document entitled "Sustainable Communities",

1. Do nothing. No cost – The situation will continue.

2. Introduce a TRO to prevent overnight parking (between the hours of 11pm and 8am) along both sides of New Promenade and South Marine Terrace (along its entire length) from the Pier southwards to the New Promenade Car
Park by the specific type / use of vehicle (i.e. vehicles that are either designed or adapted for sleeping / cooking in). As indicated in the option 2 plans. This will cost in the region of £12,000 to introduce.

3. As option 2, but not including the seaward length of New Promenade between the HUT and the Pier as indicated on the option 3 plan. This will cost in the region of £10,000 to introduce. Effectively this will remove the issues from the residential properties in South Marine Terrace but still allow overnight parking (for these types of vehicle) for the remainder of the New Promenade on its seaward side.

4. As option 2, but not including the seaward side of New Promenade between the HUT and Castle Point as indicated on the option 4 plans. This will cost in the region of £11,000 to introduce. Effectively this will still allow overnight parking (for these type of vehicles) along the length where currently this practise most commonly occurs.

5. As option 2, but not including the seaward side of New Promenade between Castle Point and the Pier as indicated on the option 5 plans. This will cost in the region of £11,000 to introduce. Effectively this will still allow for overnight parking (for these type of vehicles) along New Promenade on the currently unrestricted seaward side, north of Castle Point.

6. Restrict the times of all vehicles (as per the previous proposal placed before Cabinet on the 20th May 2014) by the provision of an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order to cover the whole seaward length of New Promenade and South Marine Terrace as indicated on the option 6 plans. This type of restriction is currently successfully operating and enforced along the North Promenade and is the only option that limits day time parking. This will cost in
the region of £12,000. Effectively this option prevents all vehicles being parked for extended periods.

7. Introduce on-street parking charges for all the lengths currently unrestricted as indicated on the option 7 plans. The North Promenade would also need to be considered for similar measures. This would require significant funding to provide the infrastructure (ticket machines, electricity etc.) with the capital costs likely to exceed £150,000 with an approximate payback period of between 3 and 5 years depending on the period of operation and the level of parking tariff. On street charging is already in place at similar coastal locations in Wales and the UK and is certainly an option worthy of serious consideration, although possibly more of a long-term measure.

8. Utilising the provisions of the ‘Criminal Justice Act 1994’ which provides Authorities with powers to serve notice and direct unauthorised campers to leave land if it appears to an Authority that persons are for the time being
residing in a vehicle or vehicles within that Authority’s area on any land forming part of a highway. This measure would generally be used in situations where there are long-term / extreme issues and may result in the Authority
seeking an Order through the magistrates courts if the notice is not complied with. This can be a lengthy

Generally, there are two types of Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) that Ceredigion County Council, as the highway authority, can consider introducing so as to prevent or restrict parking on the public highway. These are:

a) A Permanent TRO involving full formal and public consultation normally taking between 6 -12 months to introduce. This type of Order cannot be amended / changed without undertaking the full formal process..

b) An Experimental TRO is an Order that can be used to try out a new highway measure and requires consultation with the emergency services. An Experimental TRO normally takes about 3 months to introduce and can last
up to 18 months. During the first 6 month period the measures are monitored and assessed including the consideration of any objections or amendments. Changes can then be made if necessary before the Council makes a decision on whether or not to implement the Order on a permanent basis.

 

[antiquesam]

In all honesty I can't blame the good people of Aberystwyth for being hacked off. I have only been to the town once in my life, and that was last year, and saw three old vans parked on the seafront and obviously there for the duration, with wheels on the pavement to level them and piles of equipment underneath. They were parked outside peoples homes and must be an annoyance to the residents. We parked for the day, had lunch and did some shopping in the local shops, including the baker and fishmonger, before driving a couple of miles out of town to a quiet CR with views over the area. Why would anyone want to live for any length of time on the side of a road, in town, especially one that can be enjoyed in full in a day?

 

[QFour]

Looks like the few who stay for weeks on end have spoilt it for the rest. Council could easily have provided parking like other towns but have chosen a ban. Sounds like they just moved the problem elsewhere.

We all suffer as a result of the few who want to live in their vans who have or are not interested in the area and the residents. No one bothers about the odd van for a night but when a few turn up and get the genny going and booze out everyone complains and then the Council step in with the heavy handed ban.

Off to France this year. Be interesting to see what its like for MH's.

..

 

[Deleted member 967]

In France it is legal to park on the road for up to 7 days. Then if reported the van can be towed away, occupied or not.

Spain has a proposal at the moment to do the same after 5 days. (initially aimed at used car dealers displaying cars on the road. However this could be applied to overstaying Auto Caravans)

In the UK "On Highways Land. There is no provision to authorise encampments on public highways. All encampments will be deemed obstructions and therefore ‘not allowed’. The Highways Act allows for removal of unauthorised obstructions." However Ceredigion County Council ignored this and opted for "Local authorities have powers given by the Criminal Justice and Public Order 1994 ss77 and 78 (see Chapter 6). These require cases to be brought in the Magistrates' Court." as option 8. This ignored the law that could have removed the problem, without discrimination.

However in the UK there is no clear definition between Camping and Parking.

In Spain it is clear