LPG :- refilling

[MykCamper]

From what I've read on threads in the past, there's general disapproval of refilling a bottle with an adapter directly on the bottle... perceived safety issue AFAIK. If you have a refillable system with an external filler point, you'll be fine at most lpg/autogas pumps.

When my system was fitted, I was told to be sure to have the filler point on the outside of the van and not fitted inside the gas bottle door because, even though it's legit, if a garage sees you open a door to get at the fill, they'll assume you're using an adapter.

Yep, had aggro in France with a locker fill!
Fitted an outside fill last summer, no more hassle, no where!:scared:

 

[Canalsman]

Again advice from those with a vested interest

Maybe so but these are the guidelines followed by suppliers in the UK so do have some authority. The guidelines have been drawn up in conjunction with the HSE so I suggest are not biased.

 

[RoaminRog]

The OP keeps logging in without answering any questions. Charnock, please answer post No 12.We are all trying to help you!

 

[TJBi]

In four years with the fill connection inside the locker door I have been questioned once.

When the cashier looked at the installation she was satisfied and allowed me to fill.

It really isn't an issue. I would prefer to have the connection clean, dry and safe inside the locker, and not to have to cut holes in the bodywork.

How about your diesel filler Chris?

 

[Deleted member 58274]

If you say whereabouts you are in the UK someone will come on and tell you where it can be done.

If you are anywhere near Leyland / Preston in Lancashire Morrisons allows it.

Morrisons, Olympian Way, Leyland. PR25 3UR. 01772 426387

Hi Wooie, does that Morrisons allow filling of the bottle in the locker....as in without connector on outside of van ? Cheers Mark

 

[Deleted member 62288]

As I understand this issue, I believe that it relates to the fact that there is a maximum fill level allowed for portable gas bottles - I think that the max is somewhere around 80% of the max capacity.

This 80% gives a safety margin for external influences like temperature and atmospheric pressures.
There is a difference between the atmospheric pressure at sea level against a few thousand metres up a mountain.

I have a Gaslow system fitted that has guages and is configured to only fill to the maximum allowed capacity leaving room inside the bottle for the contents to be able to expand and contract safely.

I've seen a few adaptors that allow a standard bottle to be refilled by connecting the pump directly to the gas bottle tap. This will allow the bottle to be filled 100% leaving a bottle full of liquid gas with no expansion room. I suppose that you can guess the fill-level but that is not an option that I would personally choose.

I personally would not want that level of risk.

I've had plenty of incidences where the forecourt staff have held up the pump activation until they have walked over to the vehicle and checked the gas installation is acceptable (permanent installation inside the vehicle) and not a loose bottle being refilled.

I'm sure that we have someone who is actually qualified in LPG matters that could clarify, I would welcome a definitive answer.


james

 

[Channa]

As I understand this issue, I believe that it relates to the fact that there is a maximum fill level allowed for portable gas bottles - I think that the max is somewhere around 80% of the max capacity.

This 80% gives a safety margin for external influences like temperature and atmospheric pressures.
There is a difference between the atmospheric pressure at sea level against a few thousand metres up a mountain.

I have a Gaslow system fitted that has guages and is configured to only fill to the maximum allowed capacity leaving room inside the bottle for the contents to be able to expand and contract safely.

I've seen a few adaptors that allow a standard bottle to be refilled by connecting the pump directly to the gas bottle tap. This will allow the bottle to be filled 100% leaving a bottle full of liquid gas with no expansion room. I suppose that you can guess the fill-level but that is not an option that I would personally choose.

I personally would not want that level of risk.

I've had plenty of incidences where the forecourt staff have held up the pump activation until they have walked over to the vehicle and checked the gas installation is acceptable (permanent installation inside the vehicle) and not a loose bottle being refilled.

I'm sure that we have someone who is actually qualified in LPG matters that could clarify, I would welcome a definitive answer.


james

You pretty much sum up the situation , Industry watchdogs could be seen to be offered self regulation through codes of practice in lieu of legislation, Alternative view point to "protecting industry" which some are convinced is the reason

On a Caravan forum I am part of, this question often gets asked the answers are atrocious bordering on misunderstanding and madness. On that basis alone I can see legislation introduced.

Channa

 

[Minisorella]

*snip*

I personally would not want that level of risk.

I've had plenty of incidences where the forecourt staff have held up the pump activation until they have walked over to the vehicle and checked the gas installation is acceptable (permanent installation inside the vehicle) and not a loose bottle being refilled.

james

I would never risk it either... I'm a poor judge of how much is left in my bottles at the best of times! I know a few people who've somehow always managed to get away with directly filling a gas bottle via an adapter but it doesn't make it sensible. Both your points above are cast-iron reasons why a fixed system with an external fill point is the best solution... both for safety and to avoid hassle.
LPG can be tricky to find sometimes, so being turned away from the only supply for miles is just one throw of the dice too many for me :wacko:

 

[vwalan]

As I understand this issue, I believe that it relates to the fact that there is a maximum fill level allowed for portable gas bottles - I think that the max is somewhere around 80% of the max capacity.

This 80% gives a safety margin for external influences like temperature and atmospheric pressures.
There is a difference between the atmospheric pressure at sea level against a few thousand metres up a mountain.

I have a Gaslow system fitted that has guages and is configured to only fill to the maximum allowed capacity leaving room inside the bottle for the contents to be able to expand and contract safely.

I've seen a few adaptors that allow a standard bottle to be refilled by connecting the pump directly to the gas bottle tap. This will allow the bottle to be filled 100% leaving a bottle full of liquid gas with no expansion room. I suppose that you can guess the fill-level but that is not an option that I would personally choose.

I personally would not want that level of risk.

I've had plenty of incidences where the forecourt staff have held up the pump activation until they have walked over to the vehicle and checked the gas installation is acceptable (permanent installation inside the vehicle) and not a loose bottle being refilled.

I'm sure that we have someone who is actually qualified in LPG matters that could clarify, I would welcome a definitive answer.


james

the pumps you use for filling should or normally have a pressure sensor that cuts the pump off at 90% so you should never be able to 100% fill.
the weight of the empty bottle should be stamped on the bottle tare weight . convert 1kg is about 2 litres so its not difficult to get it right. alweays start from empty bottle if you cant do tyhe rithmatic . carry scales to weigh a part full bottle . reimo etc sell nice spring balance gas bottle weighing scales .
but even then in some countries there is no lpg at garages etc .
depends where you might want to travel. over the years in spain exchanging a bottle is cheaper than lpg. at the pumps . also how long you are going for . all make life different for all.
even some garages wont let you fill anything if you are in a m,home .

 

[Deleted member 58274]

So much to consider !!

Gosh...I thought this would be simple ! Having ruled out an eBay adapter for exchangeable bottles (much too dangerous!!) I thought Ahh, a refillable gasit was the answer. Then I read this thread LOL What's the point of a refillable bottle that you are not allowed to refill ? Well, when I say that I mean, as Jenny says "not guaranteed to be allowed to refill and miles to next station" ...fully understand that !! Yet others say no worries if connector mounted separate from bottle. However, then there's the issue of wether the connector is inside the locker door or mounted on the outside of van as many say is the only way to go.
Right, how about I get a refillable bottle and see how stations are when I try to use there facility ? I can always move onto the separate connector if no joy...Maja

 

[Deleted member 9849]

Gosh...I thought this would be simple ! Having ruled out an eBay adapter for exchangeable bottles (much too dangerous!!) I thought Ahh, a refillable gasit was the answer. Then I read this thread LOL What's the point of a refillable bottle that you are not allowed to refill ? Well, when I say that I mean, as Jenny says "not guaranteed to be allowed to refill and miles to next station" ...fully understand that !! Yet others say no worries if connector mounted separate from bottle. However, then there's the issue of wether the connector is inside the locker door or mounted on the outside of van as many say is the only way to go.
Right, how about I get a refillable bottle and see how stations are when I try to use there facility ? I can always move onto the separate connector if no joy...Maja

I'm pleased you have ruled out the e bay adapter,that is definitely not the way to go.Refillable bottles with the auto cut off at 80% full is.

The vast majority of garages will allow you to fill a proprietary refillable bottle whether it has an external filler or not in my personal experience.I have a 60 litre refillable lpg tank which is fitted inside a storage locker with no external fill point.I have to open the locker door and put it on the latch to fill it up with lpg.In practise it means I have to place the filler gun onto the tank filler point and fill it up with the locker door latched open.It's quite obvious to anyone watching that I'm filling the tank without an external fill point.I have never been stopped or had a problem with filling the tank all over the UK and Europe in the last 6 years.

 

[Caz]

Strictly speaking, Shell garages usually have a big sign near the LPG pump to state that no bottle can be filled. It makes no distinction whether it is a refillable or not. If it is bottle shaped, it cannot be filled. My local Shell garage has one and I was refused a fill several years ago. The old chap who was the Forecourt Assistant stopped me but he is long gone and I have had no problem since. I would go to the effort of taking a photo of the sign but at the moment the garage is closed for a major refurbishment, so you will just have to take my word for it until it opens again.

When it opens again, you will probably find it doesn't do LPG anymore. That's what has happened to all the service stations in this area when they have been refurbished.

 

[vwalan]

When it opens again, you will probably find it doesn't do LPG anymore. That's what has happened to all the service stations in this area when they have been refurbished.

it does seem like fuel garages are doing away with lpg pumps . its a way of making it hard to get rid of petrol and diesel powered vehicles . its a sort of fingers up to the gvt.

 

[Canalsman]

How about your diesel filler Chris?

Qué?

 

[rugbyken]

one of the many positives of a refillable system whether it be gaslo gasit or autogas is there is no need to wait till the bottle is empty to top up , i have 2x11kg gaslo the first bottle ran out 3 day’s ago after 18days use so within a fortnight prob only 5 day’s as i cross into portugal i will refill both bottles just like topping up a fuel tank,

 

[2cv]

I use FillLPG.co.uk - Your LPG Filling station map as it is kept very up to date, with prices. Never had a problem finding somewhere to fill and installation cost has now been recouped. Also, never been questioned when refilling.

 

[charnock]

Possibly a stupid question BUT have you got refillable bottles or are you trying to refill an EXCHANGABLE bottle?

Hi, Sorry for late reply!!! I was trying to refill a refilable bottle, after reading replies I have now decided to get a on board lpg tank kit.
Cheers Kev

 

[RoaminRog]

Hi, Sorry for late reply!!! I was trying to refill a refilable bottle, after reading replies I have now decided to get a on board lpg tank kit.
Cheers Kev

Overall, that’s a very good idea Kev, and one that you wont regret. Expensive initially, but you’ll soon start to see savings and convenience.

 

[charnock]

Thanks for all your helpful replies!!!!
Cheers Kev

 

[johnmac185]

When it opens again, you will probably find it doesn't do LPG anymore. That's what has happened to all the service stations in this area when they have been refurbished.

Which area would that be Caz!!!!