lobbying your own council

stirlingb

Guest
Hi everyone
don't know if this approach has been considered before...apologies if it has! I thought it would be a good idea if members lobbied their own councils to get them to approve/sanction/provide (call it what you will) motorhome stopover places. Obviously nobody wants to stop over at the end of their own road, however members know their own locallity better than anyone else so in theory they should stand a better chance of a result than an outsider to the area.
I happen to live in Bury, Lancs and will start the ball rolling with Bury MBC....a result in Bury is no good to me of course as I live here. The theory of this thread is that other people take advantage of your results and you take advantage of other peoples results........hope I explained that lucidly. If only 1 in a 100 members had a successful result that would be a lot more stopovers all over the UK. Hadn't realised before considering this how many touristy things there are to do in Bury.....steam railway line, brand new Lancashire fusiliers museum, tram link directly into Manchester City centre, Helmshore textile museum (just outside Bury), world famous (I think) market, more premiership football within an hours drive than aywhere else in the country etc etc........so I'll let you know how I get on with Bury MBC
 
Hi sterlingb,
my local council Powys already allows stopovers, 1 night in 7 on a lot of it's car parks, so you could use this info as a bit of clout, as they say in Lancashire:D
Good luck.

Happy Camping:)Lancs Lad now in Powys
 
I think this is one of the best ideas I have yet read on this site!!!
congratulations !

I don't live in the UK so can't contribute , and here in france you can stop pretty well where you like so it doesn't apply

but , in reality , there are plenty of suitable spots in the UK as I know from my visits , the small charge for the facility / brings revenue to the town argument would work best imho

I thought about this when recently in Plymouth ,and stopped in the large parking outside the football ground where they operate the park and ride ...ample space for , say , 10 motorhome spaces , small capital cost for facilities

on the other hand TRIED to stop in the park and ride at Chelmsford , motorhomes forbidden ! you can park in the city centre I was told ...I was speechless

still , had a nice couple of weeks wilding in London , although one of my favourite spots was closed off as it was reserved for a movie crew on location...c'est la vie
 
Great idea. As I said in another thread on the lake district, councils don't really listen to outsiders. They are more concerned with winning votes from their own constituents. It doesn't matter if you tell another council how much business for local premises they are losing from motorhomers, it has to come from the horses mouth.

In some cases where they have had problems with travelers or lorry parking they are not going to be receptive however you phrase it. That's just a fact to face up to. But in a large number of cases it is something they will at least consider.

One of the best ways to get things done at local councils is not necessarily to approach the council direct but find a local councillor who will take up your case and maybe put a proposal forward. This way you have a point of contact, rather than just lobbying the council in general where things can just get passed from one person to another.
 
Good luck with Bury council Stirlingb, and I really mean that. We work the world famous Bury market, and it is world famous, customers from all over the world put it on their must see list. Look us up if your in town, Gemstone Goodies, weve 3 stalls so are well known.

Now back to the problem, we live in Barnsley South Yorkshire and wanted to take a motorhome over there Wed to Sat to save on the 3 hour a day commute. Now a couple of years ago the height barrier on the carpark nearest the market (near JJB sports) was left unlocked on market days so the big vans could get in, and the wardens were told to not be too fussy about vans taking up 2 spaces as long as they bought 2 tickets, at £4.50 each!
after 6pm theres no wardens so overnighting was possible.
Then one night the travellers moved in, a lot of them.Since then the barrier has been locked, apart from odd times when the council need to get in for maintinence.
The traders have to park out of town if they have a van over 6' 9'' or get a permit to park on the market road (theres a waiting list).
Now the good news! B+Q are on the roundabout just off the motorway junction, only a short bus ride into Bury, and Ive talked to many motorhomers that have stopped in their carpark overnight with no problem, just park at the back of the carpark out of the way and be quite careful not to be obvious.
Also there is an industriel estate off the next junction north that the lorry drivers use,not seen it but am told its quite safe.
Theres also Burrs country park caravan club site, almost in the town center,But they wouldnt even book us in for 1 night when I foolishly told them that we were there to work the market (muttered something about it being for tourists not migrant workers) cant say ive ever noticed the passport contol on the yorkshire border:rolleyes:
So best of luck with Bury council, the only thing they seem to take notice of is petitions, we got one up about 6 years ago to stop them selling the market site to a developer, and with about 50% of the town signing it they had to take note!
If you go down that route then theres 340 stalls on the market, most with staff who wellcome anything that brings in more customers, and Im sure that John Ayre (the market toby) would help as much as he could.
Anybody know any more places to stopover? weve not given up on the idea of stopping over but need somewhere we can be sure of getting a good nights kip after 14 hours on the market:(
 
urbtaf said:
Theres also Burrs country park caravan club site, almost in the town center,But they wouldnt even book us in for 1 night when I foolishly told them that we were there to work the market (muttered something about it being for tourists not migrant workers)
:(
Click to expand...

In the case of a site run by or franchised by one of the Big Clubs. It could be a condition of Planning or Licencing, that the site is for recreational purposes only by the local authority.

The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act (1960) does state:

(2) For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation
may issue as respects any land a certificate stating that the land
has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its
members for the purposes of recreation.

That condition is for the Clubs Certificated Sites and applies to them all by law.

Whether the law is enforced is up to the person at the time. The fact that the person quoted migrant show that there was some predudice in the decision.

Who is to decide when recreation begins, after all we are all entitled to a break. After 14 hours at work I would consider the rest of the day to be for my recreation and rest.
 
thanks guys for the usefull (and positive comments), I have alresdy emailed Bury MBC. Hopefully other members will take up the baton elsewhere
 
AndyC said:
It was an approach from a local motorhome owner that resulted in the stopover facility being introduced at Guisborough. See: Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly Parking - Teesside/Cleveland

Useful suggestion for a letter to your local council here: Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly Parking - Information request example

AndyC
Click to expand...

I have sent the following to Durham County Council.

Dear Council Leader/Chief Executive,
In addition to being residents of xxxxxxxxx, my wife and I own a Motorhome. In the course of our travels we have found that parking for such vehicles is somewhat patchy in different areas of the country. I believe it would be advantageous for the Durham County Council to provide daytime and/or over-night parking facilities for Motorhomes on land it owns or controls. This type of facilities is common on the continent and on its road network.

Many Motorhome users would only require a safe, level parking space reasonably close to the town or village centre, although some authorities have provided a fresh water supply and/or waste-water disposal facilities. Being locked in a car park overnight could be seen as a plus factor to many. Parking orders can restrict the numbers and types of vehicle and the maximum stay time. Powys Council, for instance, has an order in place that restricts parking to one night in seven. Redcar & Cleveland Borough Council has facilities in Guisborough’s Fountain Street East car park with a limit of 18 hours stay from 6pm to noon the following day.

Given the existing facilities in some locations it may be that little additional infrastructure would be required. Where additional facilities are required this would be relatively inexpensive especially when compared to the potential economic benefits to the traders and licensees in Durham County of Motorhome users finding a convenient place to stop, either during the day or over-night.

Motorhome users tend to purchase provisions in local shops, eat at local restaurants/pubs and visit local tourist attractions. I understand that the Durham City “Park and Ride” do have provision for Motorhomes but not for overnight use, other parts of the county could benefit from such provision and overnight use as well. I understand that under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act (1960) (FIRST SCHEDULE section 11) local authorities do not need a site licence or planning permission to set up such sites within their own area.

In addition there are many former picnic sites that were operated by the County Council that could provide overnight stopover facilities in rural/semi rural areas for Motorhomes. Many of these have been blocked off. Some authorities are concerned that people might try to set up semi-permanent campsites with resultant mess and nuisance or use them for other illegal activities, but this is not borne out by the experience of those, that have made such provision.

The rural (picnic site) facilities could alternatively be opened up to exempted organisations such as “The Motor Caravanners Club” for use as 5 van certificated locations. This group are actively seeking “Night stop” facilities from Pubs and Restaurants in conjunction with “Practical Motorhome” magazine. Natural England has no objection to such a scheme. I hold similar exemption status on behalf of another group.

Provision of toilets and a drinking water tap in some of the larger off road lay-bys would also be advantageous to all persons using them. This would eliminate much of the fowling of the environment that occurs in such locations due to the lack of facilities.

So far, relatively few authorities have provided such stopping places so there is an opportunity for the Durham County Council to be in the forefront. Those authorities that have taken the step forward report positively on their experiences. For instance, Canterbury City Council has said “We are particularly proud of facilities provided at our New Dover Road Park and Ride where dedicated parking for Motorhomes with toilet and other waste disposal and fresh water facilities are provided.”

Motorhomes these days are in a different league to those that existed when the 1960 Act was written. They, unlike touring caravans, are totally self-contained. As well as living and sleeping accommodation, they have onboard facilities for sanitation (Showers/Toilets and Drinking water) the contents of which are held in onboard tanks with a capacity to last 2 or 3 days or more without empting or refilling.

If I can assist in any way I shall be very pleased to do so. My phone number is xxxxxxxxxx, my e-mail address is xxxxxxxxxxxand my geographic address is xxxxxxxxx STANLEY, Co. Durham. xxxxxxx

Regards, John J Thompson
 
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impressive john

without seeming to be pedantic how about amending the penultimate paragraph to having a comma before and after ....unlike touring caravans ...hopefully people will be copying this !
 
Thank you John,
If a lot of members would copy your letter, amend it, and send it to their local administration, I think 'we' could get a snowball rolling to have things changed for overnighting in the UK. It did work in France and begins to work in Belgium. :)
Go for it my friends, and thanks again John, a valuable piece of work. :D
 
agreed, cracking email John T.

Anybody else prepared to give it a go.........I reckon only about 2 or 300 more needed to get the ball rolling properly!!
 
Keep the ball rolling

Thank you very much for your comments guys.

The more of us that ask, the better the chance of someone taking notice. Just because one of us has written to a council, does not stop others doing the same thing.

A further move could be to contact individual councilors as well.
 
A great idea.

I think it might also add weight if a copy was sent to the tourism association within each area asking its members to follow suit. The members will be visitor attraction operators, pubs, restaurants, coffee shops and other facilities on which visitors will spend so it's in their interests too. Of course, accommodation providers and camp site owners probably won't want to support it but other businesses will be aware they could benefit.

Tourist Information Centre staff could also be a valuable link - they are often the first port of call for visitors when they arrive in an area looking for somewhere to park.
 
My first point of call at Bury MBC was the tourist office as they have a vested interest. We will see what happens
 
Progress report

I confirm receipt of your e-mail which has been referred to Dave Wafer who
is the County Council's Business Manager for the Environment Department
based at County Hall.

Durham County Council
County Hall
Durham
 
Reply from Durham County Council

Sir
Thank you for your mail in which you raise the important issue of accommodation for motorhomes within County Durham. I am pleased you recognise that provision has been made in Durham Park and Ride for such vehicles for day time visitors.
I acknowledge that facilities in Aires in France can be provided to a high standard and that such facilities are not provided on our local network. The French example is at sites generally but not exclusively on Peage which are private financed highways as Im sure you will be aware.

I am aware that local facilities at some French towns have been provided, and that they are in general, of a reasonable standard although usually not manned. Those provided close to local towns are generally funded from the public purse and require continued resource to maintain and keep clean and useable to an acceptable standard.

This raises the questions of why such facilities are not offered on our road network.

Turning firstly to our Park and Ride sites. Whilst the sites can accommodate motorhomes they are locked after 7:00pm and on Sundays: this is to discourage anti -soccial behaviour or accommodation by gypsys and travellers at times when the sites are not manned. We have planning permission only to open the sites during restricted hours. This is a planning condition generated at the local populace request and therefore must be adhered to.

Use of the County Council's other off street facilities and laybys is in some instances restricted particularily for overnight stops. Again this is to dissuade anti social behaviour. Unfortunately such facilities have been used at times by irresponsible persons and we have received complaints of unacceptable littering or them being used as toilet facilities which the Council then has to expend resource to address from ther public purse.

I note your suggestion of provision of toilets and a drinking water tap in some of the larger off road lay-bys. Whilst this appears to be a reasonable request, the Council must take a view of such provision and whether it benefits our community. As alluded to earlier , there is concern about gypsy and traveller settlements establishing in areas that would be inappropriate. I accept that motorhome users are responsible law abiding motorists, however, there are, as you will appreciate a minority of other motorists who would not respect such facilities.

You have suggested there is an economic benefit to the County through such provision, but equally there is an economic cost that must be borne. Capital funding would need to be provided for construction of buildings and continued revenue funding would need to be provided for maintenance of such facilities. Such funding would not be unsubstantial and would be difficult to identify in the current climate of public spending cuts.

In closing, I recognise that facilties for motorhomes are not provided but I hope you accept why this is the case. We intend to review all our parking orders in all off street car parks in the cpounty and will where possible allocate space for motorhomes at least during the daytime periods.

I trust you find this response acceptable. If you wish to discuss this further pleease do not hesitate to contact me on the number below.

John McGargill MSc Eng. MICE MIHT
Traffic Section Manager
Regeneration and Economic Development
Room 4/98
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UQ
Tel 0191 3833456
Click to expand...

Your comments and suggestions on how to reply further please. In all I find it a negative response.
 
I'm also an MICE CEng, though I work in structures mainly, not highways :D

He's got a good point about funding. There is a capital and a maintenance cost which is unlikely to be offset from extra trade benefits to local businesses.

This is the problem with approaching the council direct. You're likely to get passed around or fobbed off This chap probably deals with the technical aspects of allocation of given funding, he's not party to the increase of the funding itself.

You may get further by getting a councillor on your side who can help to carry a policy to get more funding and make decisions at a higher level.
 
Comments from Graham of "Motorhome Parking"

Hello John,

Thanks for copying the letter to me. Disappointing. The description of the planning
conditions (which would have been the subject of full public
consultation at the time each car park was being proposed) indicate
that thought has taken place, even if it wasn't fully informed by the
full spectrum of views.

I'm sure that you, like me, have experience of the mess left by some
"travellers" (for want of a better term) and car parks which have
suffered the attention of "boy racers" thrashing vehicles around
through the night. Those sorts of problem (especially when
highlighted by local TV news programmes) tend to generate more
comments to councils than any pro-motorhome lobby so will be given
more weight unless counteracted.

Perhaps a way forward would be to concentrate on individual sites one
at a time, rather than the county as a whole. It is good to see that
the county is open to looking at allocating motorhome spaces when
they review the parking orders. It might be worth asking Mr McGargill
to include you as a consultant when they do so, in order that the
positive aspects of motorhome provision are properly explored.

Regards,
Graham
 
I am planning to be on the road full time shortly. Is there anyone else in County Durham that would be willing to contact Mr McGargill to be part of the consultation process as Graham suggested.
 
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