Leisure battery not charging

[Teutone]

Frist weekend trip and not so happy.

The leisure battery is not that old, fitted by the PO and has a sticker with 2010 on it.
I had the battery removed over winter and it charged fine in the garage and held charge for weeks with minimal loss.

When I fitted battery back in the motorhome, I connected a multimeter and checked that the voltage rises when the engine runs. So this would be charging?

Went to Newark camping show last weekend and only used LED lights but next morning decided to use hot air heating. Battery was drained in 2 hours of use :-(

Then we headed of to a new destination, about 2 hours drive and there was still no charge in the battery. 2 hours of driving should be good for some if a little bit of charge?

I have bought a bigger leisure battery anyway and want to fit a battery to battery charger but was hoping I could retain the OEM leisure battery with the OEM charging for a back up.

 

[oldish hippy]

has the main battery gone a lttle flat and is being charged up because the feed to charge lesuire battery come from main batttery which is switched by the relay which is operated by the voltage from the alternator yes the voltage would rise

 

[Teutone]

hmmm, just found out that the wiring schematic I have got for the habitat control panel is different to the one fitted to the MH.
paperwork shows a 8 fuse panel, I have only 6.

No chance of an easy fix for that one I guess.

When plugged into mains, the leisure battery gets charged. But so far I haven't seen any evidence that the alternator charges it as well.

That generaor wire which tells the split relais to pull, is that supposed to have 12V when engine is running?

 

[sagart]

Just had something similar, Autosleeper Topaz on a lwb T5
All worked fine on 240, but no charging or equipment on 12v.
I first assumed flat battery but it turned out that the feed to the split charge relay (part of the habitation wiring loom) had rotted at the terminal into the fuse block containg the relays etc.
Annoyingly, and why it took a while to trace was that the wire remained in the block so there was no visible fault.
Another possibity, and I've had this as well in the past, is that the relay itself has failed.

 

[n brown]

if the voltage reading at the lb doesn't rise above 13v when engine is started then the first thing to check is the fuse,then the relay then the wiring from the relay to the main batt and alternator

 

[oldish hippy]

hmmm, just found out that the wiring schematic I have got for the habitat control panel is different to the one fitted to the MH.
paperwork shows a 8 fuse panel, I have only 6.

No chance of an easy fix for that one I guess.

When plugged into mains, the leisure battery gets charged. But so far I haven't seen any evidence that the alternator charges it as well.

That generaor wire which tells the split relais to pull, is that supposed to have 12V when engine is running?

yes it is

ok let have a look see what we can figure out for you 6 or 8 fuses isnt going to make a lott of difference just means you have more circuits for example if you had eight light and only six fuses then you would wire up two on one fuse anyway forget that

right what is the control panel please if no name then picture so i can hunt it down then ican have look to see if i can see wiring diagram for it then i might have more idiea what we a re trying to sort out and help you with

 

[Teutone]

Just had something similar, Autosleeper Topaz on a lwb T5
All worked fine on 240, but no charging or equipment on 12v.
I first assumed flat battery but it turned out that the feed to the split charge relay (part of the habitation wiring loom) had rotted at the terminal into the fuse block containg the relays etc.
Annoyingly, and why it took a while to trace was that the wire remained in the block so there was no visible fault.
Another possibity, and I've had this as well in the past, is that the relay itself has failed.

well just took me 4 hours to find it....

almost same than yours but with the added complication that the "specialist" who installed the split charge switching wire had the brilliant idea to run out of grey/red cable and decided to keep going with a BLACK one!!! Didn't help that the "extension" where the black begins was right under the dashboard INSIDE a corrugated tubing. aaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!!!!

So after lifting the carpet/rubber floomats, scratching my hands open behind the dash I finally found where he spliced into the alternator charge indicator. In the engine bay under the injector rail.

nice rusty connector

but the main fault was here, a inline fuse holder next to the battery tray with a completly rotten 1 Amp (ONE!) fuse. Swapped fuse and all was working.

and then we wonder why Ferrari can't make a competetive car in F1.

 

[Teutone]

yes it is

ok let have a look see what we can figure out for you 6 or 8 fuses isnt going to make a lott of difference just means you have more circuits for example if you had eight light and only six fuses then you would wire up two on one fuse anyway forget that

right what is the control panel please if no name then picture so i can hunt it down then ican have look to see if i can see wiring diagram for it then i might have more idiea what we a re trying to sort out and help you with

Thanks for your help wiith this but I just wanted to know how the stuff is wired up because the fridge never worked on 12Volt. After the split charge relais was sorted, the fridge is also working.

 

[oldish hippy]

glad it sorted

 

[Minisorella]

It never ceases to amaze me how brilliant you all are at the maintenance/DIY side of things :bow:
Touch wood we haven't hit any problems since we bought it last summer but with a 6-year-old, second-hand MH, this forum is a big comfort and I'm learning heaps of stuff. Thanks everyone

 

[Teutone]

It never ceases to amaze me how brilliant you all are at the maintenance/DIY side of things :bow:
Touch wood we haven't hit any problems since we bought it last summer but with a 6-year-old, second-hand MH, this forum is a big comfort and I'm learning heaps of stuff. Thanks everyone

don't get me wrong, I do like my DIY. But on a nice sunny day like today with a day off work, I could have done without it. Would have much preferred to sit in the garden with a beer cutting the grass.

Imagine the hassle sorting that out the usual way.
-- ring garage for appointment
-- take Motorhome to garage (maybe take time off work)
-- walk home or arrange a lift
-- arrange a lift back to garage on another day (and take more time off work)
-- pay ££££'s for fault finding

looking at it like this, it doesn't feel so bad not cutting the grass :cool1:

 

[oldish hippy]

ok inot housebound but do spend a lot of time at home and try to help out where i can,ok some with some people you have to hold there hand and try and walk them through just dont want to feel like i am belttleing them ,but more than willing to help out where my knowledge comes in handy and i learn stuff as well like yours you have a fuse at begining and they joined the wire in not straight on to alternator so now iknow something else to sugest thankss to you and sagart

 

[Teutone]

well, I couldn't help myself.....

It's this "while-u-are-it" problem I have

Looking how the split charge relay is wired up and I am a belt and braces man, I decided to fit a "charge indication LED".
Basically I have added a big red LED in the wire which switches the charge relay on (the feed from the alternator showing 12V when engine runs) to see that the relay is really ON when driving.

Then i got carried away.

I added a switch to overwrite the split charge relay when engine is off. Why you may ask.

-- with the relay switched ON when engine is off, I can now use the onboard battery charger to charge leisure battery AND the starter battery when 240V is hooked up. No more need to get a second charger out to charge the starter battery.

-- if I run out of leisure battery power I can connect the starter battery (for short while only of course) to give us some emergency power.

I hope in all my euphoria that I haven't overlooked any possible problems doing the above and shot myself in the foot :hammer:

 

[oldish hippy]

just a thought what about amperage equalization on two battery ie one is 110amp and starter is only 60 amp then would the starter stop charging at 60 amp capicty thus reducing the other one to 60 amp.Just curous as dont know a lot about batterys.personally I would have fitted a switch so can switch btween each battery when 240 to charge either one.

 

[Teutone]

just a thought what about amperage equalization on two battery ie one is 110amp and starter is only 60 amp then would the starter stop charging at 60 amp capicty thus reducing the other one to 60 amp.Just curous as dont know a lot about batterys.personally I would have fitted a switch so can switch btween each battery when 240 to charge either one.

Once you start the engine, it has the same effect as the switch I fitted. Just a different charging source.

Engine runs --> alternator is charging BOTH batteries
240V mains plugged in and relais switched on --> mains charger is charging BOTH batteries

Not a specialist on that subject either but I don't think capacity difference matters in this instance. I have a diesel, so leisure and starter battery are fairly close in size anyway.

I have charged plenty of different batteries with one charger simultaniously in my garage with no obvious side effects, so fingers crossed.

Also added a 5A fuse in the line from switch to relay in case there is too much current flowing.

Once I have fitted the battery to battery charger, all the above is redundant anyway.

 

[maingate]

It would have been easier to run a wire between the + posts on the 2 batteries with an on/off switch (and a 10 namp inline fuse). Once your leisure battery is fully charged, you could flick the switch on to charge the van battery (or even charge the 2 together). You would have to remember to put the switch in the 'off' position before switching on the ignition otherwise it would blow the fuse.

 

[Teutone]

It would have been easier to run a wire between the + posts on the 2 batteries

that's exactly what the split relay does! Why run an extra wire?

with an on/off switch (and a 10 namp inline fuse).

the split relay is the switch in this case. My added switch is just a "remote control"

Once your leisure battery is fully charged, you could flick the switch on to charge the van battery (or even charge the 2 together). You would have to remember to put the switch in the 'off' position before switching on the ignition otherwise it would blow the fuse.

Think again, it can't blow the fuse. Otherwise it would blow the fuse every time the split charge relay comes life when you start the engine.

You never blow a fuse when you connect plus to plus. A fuse blows when you ground the positive wire it! (or when you draw too much current of course)

 

[maingate]

I don't know what van you have but on the others I know about, switching on the ignition will blow the fuse when connected together.

I could find a link to prove it but to be honest, I cannot be bothered.

 

[Teutone]

I don't know what van you have but on the others I know about, switching on the ignition will blow the fuse when connected together.

I could find a link to prove it but to be honest, I cannot be bothered.

Even with me having it running like this in REALITY, you dismiss it based on that there is a link on the allmighty internet to prove that it can't work. Oh hold on, you can't be bothered.

...going out now to switch it on and off for a few times. Not everybody is blessed to be present when miracles happen. :scared:

They only thing what worries me is that I could possibly damage the alternator by feeding 12V in the charge line indicator the wrong way round. Maybe a diode is a good solution to prevent this.

 

[oldish hippy]

or belt a brace it run a seperate feed from battery charger through a 240 volt relay to the batterys that is switched on 240 volt hookup