Implications of the POI Files ?

Channa

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Ok firstly this is not a knock at Chris (canalsman)who I am sure has best intention in his endeavours to provide a resource that our community can benefit from.

However I have questions and concerns re the merit of the POIs and the long term implications that could possibly adversely effect the enjoyment of wilders in the long term ..

I also understand too that unless a fully paid up member to this site, access to the POIs, is not available to lurkers, however plenty of newbies post...... membership fees alone, the POI file is worth it etc etc ..and the lurkers re the Lake district forum have no need to access the POI ?

A recent post , suggests a spot in the Lake District which as an area for wilding is not the most accomodating of places.

Is there not a likelihood the place becomes swamped with visitors and then becomes a no go area due to bye laws ? Is there not a risk too,
that other areas suffer the same fate ? Coastal areas like Blackpool Scarborough as an example? Scarborough particularly is currently under review from the council.

Does the POI files we have, have a self destruct ability I guess is the question ? Is there a long term sustanability ,durability in the suggestions offered................. Or Ok for this weekend and sod it the camper is sold next Monday ?

For a long time, I have had a serious reservation re the POI files, and I know others have had too. But I am daft enought to ask the questions

Channa
 
channa said:
I have questions and concerns re the merit of the POIs and the long term implications that could possibly adversely effect the enjoyment of wilders in the long term ..

Channa
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I can see where you are coming from channa, but I think that if the POIs continue to be added to, there will be a greater choice of locations, meaning that if one turns up at their intended 'overnight' and discover more 'vans' than they would like, they can move on to another location.

We always have a back up location 'just in case'.
After all, most 'wilders' prefer lone or minimal neighbours.
 
There was a recent thread on a similar topic http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/16022-you-happy-post-nice-locations.html

One of the things I wrote was 'I have been surprised that we have never met another Wildcamping member at a wild site and I can only remember one location in the last 2 years where there were other MHs overnight with us (Abereiddy) and we have stayed at some spectacular spots' Someone replied that if they see a MH at a wild site they find another unless there is plenty of room. If there is 'an answer' it's to keeping finding new sites and adding them to the POI so that there is plenty of choice and always somewhere else to go. 'Resting' sites was also suggested but this could be challenging administratively. Perhaps there could be a 'hot spot' alert of sites to avoid because they are becoming overused and the locals are starting to get restless. For example Whitby last summer was ridiculous 30+ MHs.
 
Beemer said:
I can see where you are coming from channa, but I think that if the POIs continue to be added to, there will be a greater choice of locations, meaning that if one turns up at their intended 'overnight' and discover more 'vans' than they would like, they can move on to another location.

We always have a back up location 'just in case'.
After all, most 'wilders' prefer lone or minimal neighbours.
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I understand the back up thing, But In my expêrience people are like Sheep they tend to herd . I have lost count abroad parked alone when some soul as pulled up aside, aannoying as it is, I trey to think that it is perhaps safety in numbers , a securit ything so I abstain from telling them to go forth

Channa
 
You've raised a good question that's been raised in the past, only differently! A few years ago when we were stopped from parking/wilding along the side of Chain Link road at Poole, a local wilder said there were other sites which he would no longer add to the forum as he didn't want those sites being swamped and closed as well.

After that I'm sure others were just as reserved in what they posted e.g. Aldeburgh went EXACTLY the same way, it started with a couple of campers meeting for a weekend, then a few took the p*ss and stayed for a week or more, then we saw an old hand painted black caravan parked up with a generating running all day (Why on a nice sunny day?), and the next thing we knew we were banned from parking on the sea wall!

So I'm sure you're right, there are still a few VERY nice VERY visable spots that we can no longer advertise on here for fear of it becoming too popular, so these places will NOT be advertise and so will NOT have POI's posted - therefore I feel any damage has already been done and so there is NO problem with Canalsman taking the hard work out of it for us! (A few years ago I used to collate all the sites by county and country and distribute a 40+ page directory for those who wanted it - was that any worse?).
 
Interesting replies, and my post is Not re spots we keep to ourselves it is directly a question re the POI files..

My post asks a question . I havent so far offered an opinion ..

Channa
 
channa said:
A recent post , suggests a spot in the Lake District which as an area for wilding is not the most accomodating of places.
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That's an interesting comment Channa. Maybe you could back it up. Do you refer to the spot itself or to the Lake District as a whole? Are you local to The Lakes and do you wild here a lot?

We live on the edge of the Lakes and wildcamp all over the county very regularly. We have never experienced any objections and rarely ever see other wilders in the same location. Maybe we're missing something.

BTW I posted it in the members only POI submissions area. I don't know how it ended up in the Cumbria discussion section.

Jim
 
Your thoughts are basically the same as mine.

My biggest worry is that anyone can pay the money and get the POI's. We have to hope that they abide by the wildcamping rules. Given human nature, a few of them will not and it only takes a handful of selfish ones to blacken all of us. The sort of people who would do this will always remain anonymous as they never join in to the spirit of wildcamping and participate in this forum.

BUT..... if we take this argument right down to basics, it is the outdated law of this land to blame and as long as no provision is given to motorhomes (as in Europe) then the few places available will always be well used until somebody complains and they are lost. There are many thousands of camper vans and motorhomes in the UK yet we cannot get together as one body and fight for change.
 
My thoughts are:

1. There are a lot of motorhomers and caravaners out there...most are not members of this forum never mind paying members so the nicer spots which are easily accessed especially around coastal areas or lakes are open to be spoiled by someone most likely who has never heard of even knows about this forum.

2. Similar spots are liked by boy racers, travellers, doggers, courting couples, and people in vehicles partying which can spoil a POI especially if there is a nearby 'pub'.

3. I think we are just going to have to accept that we will lose some spots....but if I guess right it isn't the spots out in the wilds of nowhere but the picturesque spots that we are in danger of losing....but I don't think it is our fault or that the fault lies with our database...just the unpredictable plonker who doesn't give a damn at the time as long as they enjoy themselves.
 
i think we can keep spots as well by leaving them tidy and so not giving us a bad name so that the council cant have a objection to the use as long as we respect them in other words dont abuse them ok there will be someone out there who doesnt respect this forums ideals as to leave thing tidy and dont push the stay to long just move on find another one

council tend to act on abused sites and at the end of the day if you stay some where and councils take your number a return next day and find it clean thay are more than likely to leave others alone ok there are going to be some who dont abide by leaving thing tidy all ican hope is that they are not members of this site or any other m/home forums surely that should be no 1 prioty leave thing as you expect to find them a
 
Nosha said:
A few years ago I used to collate all the sites by county and country and distribute a 40+ page directory for those who wanted it - was that any worse?).
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Phew! Thank goodness there's a precedent! (And there's a directory on the other site too, so the downloads are not the only source.)
 
Croftland1 said:
BTW I posted it in the members only POI submissions area. I don't know how it ended up in the Cumbria discussion section.
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It's down to me, m'lud. I moved it, as I do with all the entries in the submissions area ...
 
As a WVM, I slept on the front seats of my van 3 nights a week. I found many many good places without this site. Wild camping was around long before WC.co.uk was created. Places like The lakes or Blackpool/Scarborough have always been popular and always will be. (Personally I don't see the attraction of either town).

No matter what we do (not just when camping), someone will always think they can get away with being an absolute total *********!!!!!
All we can do is make sure we respect where we stay, and do our individual little bit for the cause.
 
My opinion to Chana's question is yes the POI does have a self destruct ability with respect to popular type sites eg coastal sites with a sea view. I'm sure some people seek out only those nice sites. For my part, I'm just as likely to use an urban car park where my particular vehicle will be lost among the many other types of vehicle who frequent it.

But even if there is a self destruct ability I personally wouldn't worry about it. There's not that big a market for wild camping in the UK. It's a small percentage of total motorhome ownership. I think you have to look at the total number of vans in the country and then the percentage of those who are willing to wild. I'd take a stab at 10,000 vans +/- 5000. The vast majority of those are not full timing and it's leisure time only.

Whichever way you look at it, it's butter spread pretty thin over the UK and in some cases mainland Europe too. So some sites will be lost while others will be added. At a future date some lost sites may come back whether it be free or perhaps some kind of parking fee. I would say just continue as we are. It's not until the roof starts to fall in and sites get crossed off by the score load that we might need to review our operation.

The headline sites removed or main points of controversy are places like Loch Lomond, Scarborough, Blackpool, Devon coastline. I don't believe the overuse of those is due to the POI or any knowledge of this site. They are simply well know locations to the camping public in general.
 
It's a pity channa was reluctant to discuss her knowledge of Lake District wildcamping with me. For what it's worth though, I believe that for the relatively small number of people that are prepared to wild in The Lakes, the majority will head to places like the so-called 'aire' in Ambleside or to Keswick town, where pubs, shops and restaurants lie in abundance.
I believe those of us that seek the beautiful remote locations for access to the mountains will remain a minority and will continue to be tolerated and even welcomed.

Jim
 
The headline sites removed or main points of controversy are places like Loch Lomond, Scarborough, Blackpool, Devon coastline. I don't believe the overuse of those is due to the POI or any knowledge of this site. They are simply well know locations to the camping public in general.

This is held up by a pol I did last year at Exmouth. I often walk along and chat to other campers when there so one day last year I asked each one if they were members of WC.co.uk and the result was 2 were paid members and one was an unpaid member. out of the 36 campers that were there that week end. Speaks for itself.
 
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