If proof was needed.

[r4dent]

in nine years I have never witnessed anyone dumping their toilet waste inappropriately, therefore this must happen very rarely.

Bad conclusion.

In the UK, there are approximately 193,023 reported incidents of vehicles being broken into annually.
So not that rare.

Since I passed my test over 60 years ago I have never observed a vehicle being broken into.

 

[Fisherman]

Eeee

Bad conclusion.

In the UK, there are approximately 193,023 reported incidents of vehicles being broken into annually.
So not that rare.

Since I passed my test over 60 years ago I have never observed a vehicle being broken into.

from the figures given this would mean your car would be broken into every 211 years.

The phrase "lies, damned lies, and statistics"

41,000,000 divided by 193,000 = 211

I have witnessed cars being stolen twice, being vandalised several times including my own car having a mirror smashed. On that occasion I followed the boy home and informed his parents who agreed to pay for the damage.

I think most on here would agree that the incidence of chemical waste being dumped are exaggerated by some for their own reasons. But if you reckon that many of us are guilty of this offence, that’s fine by me.

 

[r4dent]

Eeee

from the figures given this would mean your car would be broken into every 211 years.

41,000,000 divided by 193,000 = 211

I have witnessed cars being stolen twice, being vandalised several times including my own car having a mirror smashed. On that occasion I followed the boy home and informed his parents who agreed to pay for the damage.

I think most on here would agree that the incidence of chemical waste being dumped are exaggerated by some for their own reasons. But if you reckon that many of us are guilty of this offence, that’s fine by me.

Yep, there is a 0.5% of your car being broken into int the next 365 days.

Unless, of course, you have different figures that you can share.

I certainly never said or implied "many of us are guilty of this offence,".

All I said that one individual never witnessing it doesn't make it "very rare".
Just like one individual witnessing it doesn't makes it common place.

 

[Fisherman]

Yep, there is a 0.5% of your car being broken into int the next 365 days.

Unless, of course, you have different figures that you can share.

I certainly never said or implied "many of us are guilty of this offence,".

All I said that one individual never witnessing it doesn't make it "very rare".
Just like one individual witnessing it doesn't makes it common place.

Whereas some seem to find chemical waste being dumped or the results of dumping on a regular basis, others who regularly visit such places have never witnessed it. I never have.

I will leave you to your own conclusion, but I reckon it’s exaggerated by some for their own reasons. And that was the crux of what I stated, even if I did so badly.

Not saying it doesn’t happen, it does, but in my honest opinion it’s far rarer than some report.

 

[izwozral]

I've no way of proving this but humans pee outside millions/billions of times a year. Humans poo outside hundreds of thousands/millions of times a year. Humans dump chemical waste millions/billions of times a year.

Answer?
Cull humans!

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I've no way of proving this but humans pee outside millions/billions of times a year. Humans poo outside hundreds of thousands/millions of times a year. Humans dump chemical waste millions/billions of times a year.

Answer?
Cull humans!

OK then, after you, Ral...

 

[Rolyan57]

I’m fairly sure there are those who exaggerate it. Equally, there are those who minimise it. Both for their own reasons.

Some time ago a pub in the lakes stopped Motorhome’s due to various unsavoury actions by them. The last straw was when a motorhomer left their waste but worse, used the carpark as a toilet. Caught on CCTV. Yet there were those who denied it happened

 

[Fisherman]

I've no way of proving this but humans pee outside millions/billions of times a year. Humans poo outside hundreds of thousands/millions of times a year. Humans dump chemical waste millions/billions of times a year.

Answer?
Cull humans!

I’m all for that let’s start with you, then see how we get on after that.

 

[izwozral]

OK then, after you, Ral...

I’m all for that let’s start with you, then see how we get on after that.

I'm not human!

 

[Fisherman]

I'm not human!

Agreed, this means Marie and I can have you put down by the local vet.

 

[Fisherman]

I’m fairly sure there are those who exaggerate it. Equally, there are those who minimise it. Both for their own reasons.

Some time ago a pub in the lakes stopped Motorhome’s due to various unsavoury actions by them. The last straw was when a motorhomer left their waste but worse, used the carpark as a toilet. Caught on CCTV. Yet there were those who denied it happened

Brit Stops offers access to over 1349 motorhome stopover locations in the UK and Ireland, including pubs, farms, vineyards, and other businesses.While not all locations are pubs, a significant number of the hosts are pubs, providing a variety of options for overnight stays.

It would seem that the other 1348 are more than content with having us use their car parks. I would be astounded if there was no abuse by some who stay in these stops. It’s been well documented that some characters reckon because they pay their £35 a year they can stay for free, but if the vast majority did not buy a meal and a few drinks and behave properly the other 1348 would withdraw from the scheme.
As for anyone denying what has been shown on cctv, again they are a tiny minority, so why highlight the fact that one pub has had these issues without highlighting that the vast majority of pubs are happy to have us there.

I know some idiots behave like prat’s, and I And others on here have never sought to minimise this. Some of what I have personally witnessed angers me and leaves me wondering why I bother contacting local councils, I sometimes feel I am hitting my head of a brick wall with some of the selfish behaviour I have witnessed, and many others feel likewise on here.

 

[Rolyan57]

Brit Stops offers access to over 1349 motorhome stopover locations in the UK and Ireland, including pubs, farms, vineyards, and other businesses.While not all locations are pubs, a significant number of the hosts are pubs, providing a variety of options for overnight stays.

It would seem that the other 1348 are more than content with having us use their car parks. I would be astounded if there was no abuse by some who stay in these stops. It’s been well documented that some characters reckon because they pay their £35 a year they can stay for free, but if the vast majority did not buy a meal and a few drinks and behave properly the other 1348 would withdraw from the scheme.
As for anyone denying what has been shown on cctv, again they are a tiny minority, so why highlight the fact that one pub has had these issues without highlighting that the vast majority of pubs are happy to have us there.

I know some idiots behave like prat’s, and I And others on here have never sought to minimise this. Some of what I have personally witnessed angers me and leaves me wondering why I bother contacting local councils, I sometimes feel I am hitting my head of a brick wall with some of the selfish behaviour I have witnessed, and many others feel likewise on here.

I was merely pointing it that there are those who exaggerate the problem, and those who minimise it. Both groups have their own selfish reasons for doing so. That seems a reasonable opinion to hold.

I pointed out the pub to show how some deny there’s a problem, even when the manager is the one reporting it. That happened. So not sure why you find it so bad to mention it, as an example of how some are.

You are not the only one saddened by what happens, and you’re certainly not the only one doing something about it.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Human behaviour leaves a lot to be desired across all walks of life.

We're just an easier target to scapegoat and blame for this particular type of bad behaviour, simply because it's pretty simple to identify/distinguish us from other types of vehicle ("stealth" vans notwithstanding).

 

[Rolyan57]

Human behaviour leaves a lot to be desired across all walks of life.

We're just an easier target to scapegoat and blame for this particular type of bad behaviour, simply because it's pretty simple to identify/distinguish us from other types of vehicle ("stealth" vans notwithstanding).

There are bad ones everywhere, as you say.

The trouble with ‘ours’ is twofold. Firstly, if rubbish of any type is left by motorhomers (however rarely) the type and quantity quickly points to the owners. It’s not Mr ands Mrs Ramsbottom in their Austin Allegro.

Secondly, as you say, vans are very visible. So not only are we readily identifiable, I kinda get why people don’t always want us camped up in numbers.

I do think councils could do more, but I understand their reluctance to some degree. We all know of places that have stopped due to otherwise normal folk deciding that rules don’t apply to them (maximum numbers, max nights etc).

Add in to that the shoddy sales tactics by some unprofessional dealers, selling a dream that doesn’t exist while conveniently not mentioning the difficult bits, and it’s not hard to see why it’s an uphill battle in some areas.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I've no way of proving this but humans pee outside millions/billions of times a year. Humans poo outside hundreds of thousands/millions of times a year. Humans dump chemical waste millions/billions of times a year.

Answer?
Cull humans!

I'll be okay then

 

[Fisherman]

TT

There are bad ones everywhere, as you say.

The trouble with ‘ours’ is twofold. Firstly, if rubbish of any type is left by motorhomers (however rarely) the type and quantity quickly points to the owners. It’s not Mr ands Mrs Ramsbottom in their Austin Allegro.

Secondly, as you say, vans are very visible. So not only are we readily identifiable, I kinda get why people don’t always want us camped up in numbers.

I do think councils could do more, but I understand their reluctance to some degree. We all know of places that have stopped due to otherwise normal folk deciding that rules don’t apply to them (maximum numbers, max nights etc).

Add in to that the shoddy sales tactics by some unprofessional dealers, selling a dream that doesn’t exist while conveniently not mentioning the difficult bits, and it’s not hard to see why it’s an uphill battle in some areas.

Take two councils up here East Lothian who spend more keeping us out than Fife do making us welcome. Some councils could and should do more.
Fife have made many of their carparks available for us, and in a couple of places Elie and Kingsbarns their hospitality has been abused by to many vans parking.
But to some extent this situation has been exacerbated by East Lothian and others. If they were more reasonable this would take some of the pressure from Fife, and other regions who welcome us.

I have had telephone discussions with Robbie Blythe who is the chief executive for Fife Coastal Trust. We both reckon that Fife require to build dedicated Aires instead of only using existing carparks. Robbie refers to this as the “next stage.”
We both also agree that what’s required is legislation from the Scottish government forcing councils to make places available to us, and Robbie and others are pushing heavily for this. I have met with both my local councilor and my MSP to put forward my ideas, my MSP has written to the depts in Hollyrood who deal with such affairs, and we are hoping that this matter will be discussed at Hollyrood in the near future.


What’s remarkable about the two carparks which are constantly over subscribed in the warmer months in Fife is that almost every van whilst contravening the rules with regards to parking, still pay their way. Elie only has seven places available but they have taken in over thirty payments of £10 on one night. And the behaviour of the motorhome owners other than their numbers has been fine. The problem is these carparks are to small and simply cannot accommodate the number of vans who wish to park there in the warmer months.
Things are gradually improving here, on a recent trip we used Aires that have only recently been set up. But more needs to be done in some places.

 

[Rolyan57]

TT

Take two councils up here East Lothian who spend more keeping us out than Fife do making us welcome. Some councils could and should do more.
Fife have made many of their carparks available for us, and in a couple of places Elie and Kingsbarns their hospitality has been abused by to many vans parking.
But to some extent this situation has been exacerbated by East Lothian and others. If they were more reasonable this would take some of the pressure from Fife, and other regions who welcome us.

I have had telephone discussions with Robbie Blythe who is the chief executive for Fife Coastal Trust. We both reckon that Fife require to build dedicated Aires instead of only using existing carparks. Robbie refers to this as the “next stage.”
We both also agree that what’s required is legislation from the Scottish government forcing councils to make places available to us, and Robbie and others are pushing heavily for this. I have met with both my local councilor and my MSP to put forward my ideas, my MSP has written to the depts in Hollyrood who deal with such affairs, and we are hoping that this matter will be discussed at Hollyrood in the near future.


What’s remarkable about the two carparks which are constantly over subscribed in the warmer months in Fife is that almost every van whilst contravening the rules with regards to parking, still pay their way. Elie only has seven places available but they have taken in over thirty payments of £10 on one night. And the behaviour of the motorhome owners other than their numbers has been fine. The problem is these carparks are to small and simply cannot accommodate the number of vans who wish to park there in the warmer months.
Things are gradually improving here, on a recent trip we used Aires that have only recently been set up. But more needs to be done in some places.

We need more councils to take positive steps. I just feel it’s made much more difficult when motorhomers deliberately and knowingly break the rules.

When we’re in discussions about potential new stopovers, it’s hard to reassure locals and councillors that motorhomers won’t abuse the process, when every night they are there in their droves, abusing the process.

 

[Fisherman]

We need more councils to take positive steps. I just feel it’s made much more difficult when motorhomers deliberately and knowingly break the rules.

When we’re in discussions about potential new stopovers, it’s hard to reassure locals and councillors that motorhomers won’t abuse the process, when every night they are there in their droves, abusing the process.

When deciding to provide facilities for us, poor behaviour has to be factored in.
Any council or private company thinking that there won’t be any poor behaviour would have to be very naive. They have to balance the advantages against the disadvantages and poor behaviour would part of the disadvantages. But if done properly the advantages will outweigh the disadvantages.

But councils who actively refuse to offer any or few facilities then create pressure on those councils who wish to offer us facilities. Much of the poor behaviour relates to pressure on limited places leading to over subscription as we have seen in parts of Fife and other locations. More facilities would go a long way alleviate pressure on over subscribed places improving behaviour in most locations.

Therefore what would remove much of this pressure would be governments acting appropriately as has been done in other countries, by mandating that councils must provide a number of facilities based on the size of their area.

I find it really annoying when councils behave badly towards us, whilst many of the constituents within their area are Motorhome owners, who are free to travel elsewhere outside of their own area.

As far as I am aware up here no one who have provided facilities regret doing so, even when poor behaviour persists. Actually most of them are actually actively promoting expansion of facilities within their areas.

 

[Rolyan57]

When deciding to provide facilities for us, poor behaviour has to be factored in.
Any council or private company thinking that there won’t be any poor behaviour would have to be very naive. They have to balance the advantages against the disadvantages and poor behaviour would part of the disadvantages. But if done properly the advantages will outweigh the disadvantages.

But councils who actively refuse to offer any or few facilities then create pressure on those councils who wish to offer us facilities. Much of the poor behaviour relates to pressure on limited places leading to over subscription as we have seen in parts of Fife and other locations. More facilities would go a long way alleviate pressure on over subscribed places improving behaviour in most locations.

Therefore what would remove much of this pressure would be governments acting appropriately as has been done in other countries, by mandating that councils must provide a number of facilities based on the size of their area.

I find it really annoying when councils behave badly towards us, whilst many of the constituents within their area are Motorhome owners, who are free to travel elsewhere outside of their own area.

As far as I am aware up here no one who have provided facilities regret doing so, even when poor behaviour persists. Actually most of them are actually actively promoting expansion of facilities within their areas.

While I agree in general, I think the responsibility for not following the rules rests solely with the motorhomers.

My main point remains that it’s difficult sometimes to reassure those with genuine concerns about whether a place would be abused, when a place is being abused.

 

[Rumour]

Human behaviour leaves a lot to be desired across all walks of life.

We're just an easier target to scapegoat and blame for this particular type of bad behaviour, simply because it's pretty simple to identify/distinguish us from other types of vehicle ("stealth" vans notwithstanding).

So we have to be whiter than white, but we are not! We as a group seem to give many opportunities for criticism, even if it is the famed "minority"! We have twice seen someone empty toilet waste in hedgerows. Once in a layby. Both times I tackled them and both times I was threatened with physical violence and both on in fairly new motorhomes. The one in Cornwall I captured of a dash cam as we parked up. He was surprised to say the least. That was the worst one as he told me that if I didn't STFU, he would cover me and the van in the rest of his waste, while his wife (?) and child looked on. He was reported.

With issues like that, a non motorhomer sees it and extrapolates to "they all do it"! We are all tarred and looked on with distain. Plus, it may be one of the reasons councils are reluctant to provide spaces for us. If we don't put in Elsan points, will they do this? And some will. Putting an Elsan point into a car park is not cheap, they have to justify it to the electorate, after all, they pay the money for it, not us.