I suspect that this will end in tears.

Glandwr said:
www.theguardian.com

Labour would extend right to wild camp to all English national parks

Move comes as campaigners call for wider access to land after court of appeal ruling on Dartmoor case says activity is lawful
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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This won’t end in tears if it come about, and I reckon it will.
This landowner in Dartmoor has given momentum towards a system similar to that which exists in Scotland. Coming from Scotland it feels strange almost threatening seeing all of the private land keep off signs in England.
No I reckon the Tories may even jump on this bandwagon, it’s definitely a vote winner, and both parties are desperate for votes.

I do realise that England has ten times the population of Scotland with only 30% more land mass. But therein lies the problem. If you allow most of that land to be “owned” by a tiny minority who then restrict access to everyone else you are making matters even worse.

Yes there have been problems up here, resulting in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs being removed from the act April to October. And there will initially be issues in England. But with due diligence these issues can be dealt with, and as time passes they will become less of an issue.

I look forward to the day when you English are given the same rights as we have, and those awful signs are removed. And although this won’t directly affect us, it is surely a step in the right direction for the future. What’s required are education, and a change in attitudes, and in my honest opinion this is exactly that.

So it’s fingers crossed. 🤞
 
As much as I like the idea ...

It's frankly got ending in tears written all over it ...
Whilst it works overall pretty well in most of Scotland especially the areas not on the doorstep of large conurbations

I can imagine the impact on areas like my local Peak District with Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham etc etc right on the doorstep ...

I saw a taster during lock down and trust me it wasn't pretty .
It would need generations of unpicking of entitlement and "do what I want" type attitudes tha large segments of society now have .

Sorry BUT I see it as a disaster in the making.
 
mistericeman said:
As much as I like the idea ...

It's frankly got ending in tears written all over it ...
Whilst it works overall pretty well in most of Scotland especially the areas not on the doorstep of large conurbations

I can imagine the impact on areas like my local Peak District with Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham etc etc right on the doorstep ...

I saw a taster during lock down and trust me it wasn't pretty .
It would need generations of unpicking of entitlement and "do what I want" type attitudes tha large segments of society now have .

Sorry BUT I see it as a disaster in the making.
Click to expand...
Right now Dartmoor is the only part of England were over 50 million people can camp freely. If this right is extended to other parts then surely this will dilute the effect. Also although Dartmoor was the only place you could camp freely, I was not aware of any major issues there.

I wholeheartedly agree that England with its massive population will be different from Scotland, and there will be issues. But if applied properly these issues can be sorted out. Possibly it should only apply to rural parts of England. I hope you do this, and I hope it works. It may take a number of years to sort out initial issues, but surely it will be worth it.

Covid was unique, people being cooped up indoors for months suddenly were given their freedom back, we had serious issues up here also, but although these problems have left their mark, they’re history now.
 
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mistericeman said:
As much as I like the idea ...

It's frankly got ending in tears written all over it ...
Whilst it works overall pretty well in most of Scotland especially the areas not on the doorstep of large conurbations

I can imagine the impact on areas like my local Peak District with Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham etc etc right on the doorstep ...

I saw a taster during lock down and trust me it wasn't pretty .
It would need generations of unpicking of entitlement and "do what I want" type attitudes tha large segments of society now have .

Sorry BUT I see it as a disaster in the making.
Click to expand...
Wasn't the same argument used in the wake of the mass trespass at Kinder Scout?
 
Glandwr said:
Wasn't the same argument used in the wake of the mass trespass at Kinder Scout?
Click to expand...
Sadly we live in a slightly different world now ...
Look at lots of areas that are close to large towns/cities and the countryside is littered with rubbish etc

I honestly can't see that improving when a greenlight is given for folks to camp there
Sadly for every one that would tread lightly and treat open spaces with respect,
there will be many more that treat it as their right to head there and leave all the detritus they create .
I wish people weren't like that BUT they ARE ...

Like I said ....its a great idea BUT I really can't see it causing anything more than issues .
 
I think if I read it right they talked about making wild camping legal as the default but would roll out exceptions where required presumably similar to what's happened around Loch Lomond. So it could work. If an area becomes swamped with nutters in throw away tents they simply restrict it.
 
As somebody who enjoys camping in tents I would welcome this. The thought of travelling on the bikes with my mate without planning ahead would be just my cup of tea.

I can see there being a lot of opposition from councils and campsite owners though, and sadly I think it would get abused. :(
 
I never trust a political promises, manifestos, or anything said in the gutter press to win over voters!

One wealthy landowner lost one battle but if they clubbed together the amount of money they could throw at fighting this could be staggering.

Even huge businesses like the National Trust which is supposed to be a charity keeping land and buildings in trust for the nation, which you would think long ago would have embraced the concept but no, it’s effectively one of the biggest nimby organisation, and they go out of their way to discourage just about everything the act would enable.

So called charities and wealthy landowners will have enormous sway,
 
Thistle said:
I never trust a political promises, manifestos, or anything said in the gutter press to win over voters!

One wealthy landowner lost one battle but if they clubbed together the amount of money they could throw at fighting this could be staggering.

Even huge businesses like the National Trust which is supposed to be a charity keeping land and buildings in trust for the nation, which you would think long ago would have embraced the concept but no, it’s effectively one of the biggest nimby organisation, and they go out of their way to discourage just about everything the act would enable.

So called charities and wealthy landowners will have enormous sway,
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In that case what happened in Scotland.
What happened to the land owners, the huge businesses, Nat trust for Scotland and the rest.
I am not gullible enough to believe everything politicians say or promise, but don’t let’s kill of any hope, if it can happen up here, it can and may happen elsewhere.
Also her comments only referred to national parks, were landowners rights have already been seriously eroded by the formation of the parks.
 
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Fisherman said:
In that case what happened in Scotland.
What happened to the land owners, the huge businesses, Nat trust for Scotland and the rest.
I am not gullible enough to believe everything politicians say or promise, but don’t let’s kill of any hope, if it can happen up here, it can and may happen elsewhere.
Also her comments only referred to national parks, were landowners rights have already been seriously eroded by the formation of the parks.
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If I remember rightly, historically, there was always a more relaxed attitude to walking through the countryside in Scotland.
In England (don't know about Wales) the enclosure movement allowed wealthy landowners to grab land and not allow anyone on it.
Therefore the whole class thing and privacy of land ownership is all wrapped up in one package in England. Thankfully not so in Scotland
I think the enclosure movement was much less or absent in Scotland.....?....
 
Debroos said:
If I remember rightly, historically, there was always a more relaxed attitude to walking through the countryside in Scotland.
In England (don't know about Wales) the enclosure movement allowed wealthy landowners to grab land and not allow anyone on it.
Therefore the whole class thing and privacy of land ownership is all wrapped up in one package in England. Thankfully not so in Scotland
I think the enclosure movement was much less or absent in Scotland.....?....
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Every square foot of Scotland is owned, much of it by foreigners who are billionaires. We have a much smaller population with much less pressure on the land up here, than in England. If this comes off there will be problems, probably more than up here. But that’s no reason to deny you all what should be a right.
Honestly when I visit England I am shocked at all of the private private property keep out signs everywhere. We don’t wild camp in England, we just feel it’s too much bother. Up here we’ll we mainly wild camp.
 
It’s not just the landowners who get upset at people walking on their land. Walkers get upset with cyclist cycling on footpaths and Green Laners upset cyclists and so on. It’s the stupid historical laws in England that upset people. Give the people the right and education and punish those that abuse it. Can’t see a problem👍
 
Fisherman said:
Every square foot of Scotland is owned, much of it by foreigners who are billionaires. We have a much smaller population with much less pressure on the land up here, than in England. If this comes off there will be problems, probably more than up here. But that’s no reason to deny you all what should be a right.
Honestly when I visit England I am shocked at all of the private private property keep out signs everywhere. We don’t wild camp in England, we just feel it’s too much bother. Up here we’ll we mainly wild camp.
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I realise it has always been owned. Was talking about 300 years ago. There was much more freedom to roam even in England back then...til the government decided to enclose it all.
Who was in power when the act was made? Presumably there was much less devolution back then. Did Westminster cause problems?
 
Debroos said:
I realise it has always been owned. Was talking about 300 years ago. There was much more freedom to roam even in England back then...til the government decided to enclose it all.
Who was in power when the act was made? Presumably there was much less devolution back then. Did Westminster cause problems?
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The SNP brought the land reform act in. Westminster were not involved, it’s a devolved issue.
 
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