I am confused

[barge1914]

Nowadays most new cars seem to have touchscreen controls. The units also include the function of ‘built-in’ satnav. Most or many of the car’s functions can’t be operated without touching the screen. Therefore assuming the cars are legal to use it must be acceptable to touch the screen without pulling off and stopping the engine? If so, is it also legal to touch a built in Satnav to, for example, zoom the display or cancel a warning, or accept a route change? Certainly it would not be legal to start programming a route whilst on the move as this would clearly represent an unsafe distraction.

The gov site on the subject refers to ‘holding and using’ a ‘Mobile Device capable of sending and receiving data’, but doesn’t seem, at least to me, completely clear as regards fixed non- handheld devices.

My Garmin is effectively built in as it is fixed and permanently wired to the vehicle electrics, and is not capable of sending or receiving data (other than receiving a gps and traffic info signal) whilst in the vehicle. It can only ‘download data’ when removed from the vehicle and connected to a computer for updating.

Has anyone ever come across a clear authoritative clarification of this?

 

[caledonia]

Using a CB radio behind the wheel is legal good buddy

 

[barryd]

I am no expert but I think providing the device is in a cradle and hands free it can be used which is daft as messing about with complex screens be they on a phone in a cradle or a built in device whilst doing 70 on a busy motorway is crackers.

 

[marchie]

Nowadays most new cars seem to have touchscreen controls. The units also include the function of ‘built-in’ satnav. Most or many of the car’s functions can’t be operated without touching the screen. Therefore assuming the cars are legal to use it must be acceptable to touch the screen without pulling off and stopping the engine? If so, is it also legal to touch a built in Satnav to, for example, zoom the display or cancel a warning, or accept a route change? Certainly it would not be legal to start programming a route whilst on the move as this would clearly represent an unsafe distraction.

The gov site on the subject refers to ‘holding and using’ a ‘Mobile Device capable of sending and receiving data’, but doesn’t seem, at least to me, completely clear as regards fixed non- handheld devices.

My Garmin is effectively built in as it is fixed and permanently wired to the vehicle electrics, and is not capable of sending or receiving data (other than receiving a gps and traffic info signal) whilst in the vehicle. It can only ‘download data’ when removed from the vehicle and connected to a computer for updating.

Has anyone ever come across a clear authoritative clarification of this?

I believe that the Garmin Navigation route instructions will fall within the definition of 'data', as will the ability to upload photos, POIs etc. Garmin also instruct you *not* to make adjustments etc al whilst driving, and to follow all local/national laws on these devices whilst driving, so a useful 'get out ' for Garmin.

What I don't recall seeing is any restriction on the front seat passenger making changes to the SatNav on the move. It's no more distracting than her talking to me, or singing along to the radio ...

In fact, my wife often loads Google Maps as a cross check of the Garmin route (so that we don't take the Garmin 'through the Town Centre's route because it's 10 feet shorter, despite having entered the M/home dimensions to stay clear of 'squeaky bum' moments crossing town), and will tell me to ignore Garmin and stay on the present main road. This is safer for us and the vehicle, but may fall foul of the 'using a device ...' restriction. And, no, I don't want to risk my licence finding out what is allowable!

Steve

 

[Robmac]

My son was reported to the Police by Jeremy Vine for picking up his 'phone from the passenger seat and placing it in the cradle whilst stopped at a red light.

JV as usual showed a video of him doing so and also wrote to his company trying to get him dismissed. Neither the Police or the company took any action, I think they just realised what a sad bloke Jeremy Vine is.

 

[Fisherman]

My son was reported to the Police by Jeremy Vine for picking up his 'phone from the passenger seat and placing it in the cradle whilst stopped at a red light.

JV as usual showed a video of him doing so and also wrote to his company trying to get him dismissed. Neither the Police or the company took any action, I think they just realised what a sad bloke Jeremy Vine is.

Like most things they start off with the best of intentions, but end up with utter nonsense.
When driving you should always prioritise what’s happening outside and within your vehicle. But obviously you are bound to be distracted to a small extent. And I am not talking about only things inside the vehicle, but outwith also. Ie many accidents are caused by confusing or lack of proper road signs, drivers paying to much attention to a road accident etc, common sense needs to be applied.

But sadly common sense is lacking at times.

In Glasgow now you face a £100 fine for parking up on a pavement, cha ching, cha ching.

 

[GeoffL]

The thing for me is that, since modern cars now have built-in SIMs, emergency assist buttons, can make calls and send data to manufacturers, all modern cars are now de-facto, "Mobile Devices capable of sending and receiving data". IOW, they are mobile phones and so (as the law is written) might be illegal to use while driving! Here's the relevant extracts...

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—​

(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or​

(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).​

[...]​

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.​

AFAICT, you have to actually hold the controls of a car in order to drive it, so are you holding the car? Don't forget that the change in the law was introduced well before cars were fitted with SIMs and so technology might well have overtaken the law to create a situation that just wasn't foreseen?!

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003

These regulations amend the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 by inserting a new regulation 110.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Trotter]

In fact, my wife often loads Google Maps as a cross check of the Garmin route (so that we don't take the Garmin 'through the Town Centre's route because it's 10 feet shorter, despite having entered the M/home dimensions to stay clear of 'squeaky bum' moments crossing town), and will tell me to ignore Garmin and stay on the present main road. This is safer for us and the vehicle, but may fall foul of the 'using a device ...' restriction. And, no, I don't want to risk my licence finding out what is allowable!

Steve

It’s never occurred to me to also use Google maps when driving somewhere new to me. My Garmin has often taken me the shortest route, when taking something like a bypass would be the better option. I’ll give it a trial next time I travel abroad.

 

[marchie]

It’s never occurred to me to also use Google maps when driving somewhere new to me. My Garmin has often taken me the shortest route, when taking something like a bypass would be the better option. I’ll give it a trial next time I travel abroad.

We really noticed the difference when taking the M/home to Lincoln for the floor repair. Garmin took us off the A1M about 16 miles north of Google's suggestion; we were parallel to the A1M all along, except, in savings about 100m, we had about a dozen islands, constant braking and accelerating at/from each one and lost a lot of time! We followed Garmin, only because we had the vehicle dimensions recorded and trusted the routing to keep us away from narrow roads etc ...

Steve

 

[jagmanx]

I wasn't sure driving on the. M4 and my phone rang. I pulled onto the hard shoulder (engine off) to answer it.
A police car pulled up behind me. No fine or official warning but they told me not to do it again.

 

[Robmac]

I wasn't sure driving on the. M4 and my phone rang. I pulled onto the hard shoulder (engine off) to answer it.
A police car pulled up behind me. No fine or official warning but they told me not to do it again.

I think you are only allowed to use the hard shoulder for emergencies?

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I think you are only allowed to use the hard shoulder for emergencies?

Correct, Rob.

 

[jagmanx]

I think you are only allowed to use the hard shoulder for emergencies?

Yes, Indeed but it was daylight and minimal traffic .

 

[Robmac]

Correct, Rob.

Damn!

That's ruined a potential stopover on the way up North.

 

[Robmac]

Yes, Indeed but it was daylight and minimal traffic .

I hope it wasn't a long 'phone call.

Apparently you have a life expectancy of 30 minutes if you remain in the vehicle on the hard shoulder!

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Yes, Indeed but it was daylight and minimal traffic .

The rules on hard shoulders are usually pretty strict, Phil.

I know on the A1 western bypass around the Metro Centre up here, if you break down the police are there within minutes and a breakdown will turn up and take you (for free) to somewhere nearby which is safe until you sort your proper recovery out.

It's considered to be a dangerous place to stop due to the high speed of the traffic on motorways, I guess?

 

[Fisherman]

Yes, Indeed but it was daylight and minimal traffic .

When someone pulls into the hard shoulder it’s normally picked up on camera and the police or motorway attendants are sent out to make sure everything is ok. You could have had a medical emergency, or your car may have broken down.

 

[Robmac]

The rules on hard shoulders are usually pretty strict, Phil.

I know on the A1 western bypass around the Metro Centre up here, if you break down the police are there within minutes and a breakdown will turn up and take you (for free) to somewhere nearby which is safe until you sort your proper recovery out.

It's considered to be a dangerous place to stop due to the high speed of the traffic on motorways, I guess?

I've often seen drivers sway into the hard shoulder when driving Marie. Possibly because they are tired but more often than not they are on the 'phone or even texting.

 

[barge1914]

The thing for me is that, since modern cars now have built-in SIMs, emergency assist buttons, can make calls and send data to manufacturers, all modern cars are now de-facto, "Mobile Devices capable of sending and receiving data". IOW, they are mobile phones and so (as the law is written) might be illegal to use while driving! Here's the relevant extracts...

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—​

(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or​

(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).​

[...]​

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.​

AFAICT, you have to actually hold the controls of a car in order to drive it, so are you holding the car? Don't forget that the change in the law was introduced well before cars were fitted with SIMs and so technology might well have overtaken the law to create a situation that just wasn't foreseen?!

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003

These regulations amend the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 by inserting a new regulation 110.

www.legislation.gov.uk

So following your link we arrive at...

(c)“interactive communication function” includes the following:

(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;

(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;

(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and

(iv)providing access to the internet;

Whilst installed in the vehicle the Garmin satnav can do none of these?

 

[Tonybvi]

My car has voice communication (which I rarely use as it often misunderstands me and is only a novelty really). A few years back everybody with a similar car lost their voice control function and it turns out the server in California had gone down! Apparently when you speak the message is sent to the server in the USA which then instructs the car what action to take. I couldn’t believe it when I found that out but it’s true. How about that for data communication?