Hook up Cables

[Firefox]

I think Shortcuit has a better grasp than some others.

For the record I have seen an extension cable fused together. I forgot to uncoil it when using with a 2KW heater! But on this lead was printed Max capacity unwound 2400W, wound 900W. Therefore using it wound with a mobile phone charger or even a small TV would not present a problem.

The heat generated in the cable is primarily proportional to the square of the current (I^2 x R x t). Less to do with magnetic flux or anything else. The rate the heat dissipates depends on a number of things. Temperature, wind conditions, or if the cable has a casing etc. Rated capacities of wound and unwound cables would likely take into account current or any magnetic effects under poor cooling conditions. Usually a coiled hook up cable has good cooling conditions, being external and having no cover.

Typically a wound cable would only melt outside the van and then trip your breakers. If it was in an awning and close to ignitable materials.... unlucky.

I'd agree if you've no idea what you are doing, unwind it every time. If you know what you are going to use and have full control, there is no need espec if it's external.

 

[vindiboy]

Nothing better than a fire bucket on an electrical fire to keep the gene pool deep.

Silly Billy !!

 

[Channa]

Here's the paranio and scare mongering. Yes if you are using a 3kw fire, no if you are charging your mobile phone. It's all a matter of using common sense, a rare commodity these days.

Your name suggests more than a basic understanding of electrics, it would be wrong to assume others here are of the same competence.

It is about advocating safe practise ?

I have caused uproar this season removing mobile homes from sale because IMHO the electric cable was less than 2.5 mm and presented a potential hazard.

Customers bringing Irons stereos their own fridges etc ..I recall on one occasion, and the customer kicking off big time......he had 10 amps to play with but considering the Aircon uses 4 amps Fridge lights and sockets take another couple of amps not a lot left.

So His Iron charging of laptops and cameras and phones hardly a surprise it tripped ................Funny thing was he was Polish I got a Polish courier to translate .....it turned out the guest was an electrician .....true or not I have no idea ....buthad on tha tvan allowed a thinner cable I wouldnt have been doing any favours.

Channa

 

[shortcircuit]

Your name suggests more than a basic understanding of electrics, it would be wrong to assume others here are of the same competence.

It is about advocating safe practise ?

I have caused uproar this season removing mobile homes from sale because IMHO the electric cable was less than 2.5 mm and presented a potential hazard.

Customers bringing Irons stereos their own fridges etc ..I recall on one occasion, and the customer kicking off big time......he had 10 amps to play with but considering the Aircon uses 4 amps Fridge lights and sockets take another couple of amps not a lot left.

So His Iron charging of laptops and cameras and phones hardly a surprise it tripped ................Funny thing was he was Polish I got a Polish courier to translate .....it turned out the guest was an electrician .....true or not I have no idea ....buthad on tha tvan allowed a thinner cable I wouldnt have been doing any favours.

Channa

Yes I have more than a basic knowledge which is why I question the "advice" given which is often an opinion rather than based on fact. As an example you appear to consider that any cable under 2.5mm is not suitable resulting uproar which I am not surprised. How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Channa]

I learned about this many moons ago when I was an apprentice.
The last extension out of three used to power a 2 kw fan heater during the ice age while I was working inside a narrowboat moored up in the canal basin.
Well it was nice and warm, in fact quite cosy, specially when the extension reel went on fire :dance: Luckily the lead was on the shore and not inside the boat!
As mentioned, It does depend on how much power you are using.
I must say, that I cringe when I see some coiled up!

***** your tale emphasises the point

The average Joe that doesnt understand about resistance and current can soon find themselves in trouble when the wife decides to plug in the Iron and their daughter plugs in the curlers.

Like gas advocating safe practise is surely far more beneficial to peoples comfort ?

Isnt that what we should be doing ?

Channa

I am honestly not on a health and safety crusade, but when people with far more experience than my self suggest uncoiled leads upright gas bottles is good practise ..I reckon they say it for a blody good reason

 

[John H]

***** your tale emphasises the point

The average Joe that doesnt understand about resistance and current can soon find themselves in trouble when the wife decides to plug in the Iron and their daughter plugs in the curlers.

Like gas advocating safe practise is surely far more beneficial to peoples comfort ?

Isnt that what we should be doing ?

Channa

I am honestly not on a health and safety crusade, but when people with far more experience than my self suggest uncoiled leads upright gas bottles is good practise ..I reckon they say it for a blody good reason

Speaking as that average Joe, Channa, I have to agree with you. I don't know much about gas or electricity (despite having a son and a son-in-law who are both electricians!) so your's is the kind of advice I would always follow rather than the gung-ho, don't worry it'll be alright sort of advice. I don't know who is right but I'd rather sleep soundly - I'm too old to learn new skills!

 

[Channa]

Yes I have more than a basic knowledge which is why I question the "advice" given which is often an opinion rather than based on fact. As an example you appear to consider that any cable under 2.5mm is not suitable resulting uproar which I am not surprised. How did you come to this conclusion?

Simple it is a standard laid down by the company and people far more technical in the world of electrics than I am.

I take their money and if the company insist on 2.5 mm cable then thats what happens to cover my back if nothing else.

Considering a typical Mobile has Microwave , an air con Unit , Fridge freezer, Stereo and umpteen sockets for guests to plug in their Irons, coffee makers, curling toungues, beer coolers, laptops, mobile phone and camera charges and outside the temperature is approaching 35 degrees.

Are you seriously suggesting a 1. 5 mm tent cable is a sensible alternative ?

It may work , but my point was good working practise erring on the side of safety, Which I have been taught was the case.

If there is a flaw in my thinking or understanding I am more than happy to listen

My facts are based upon the potential amperage drawn my opinion / advice is what I have been told is good practise.

channa

 

[scotsy]

I'm glad i'm all 12volts now :dance::dance::dance:

TBH i really did not know about this potential fire risk until i read this thread and if i succumb to installing 240v electrics will make sure the lead is spread around outside whereas i would probably have kept the unused section coiled up if i hadn't gleaned this important bit of safety advice. :idea-007:

Ian

 

[ipcel]

Different principal.
Electric fire is resistive nothing to do induction which is what heats up a coiled lead.

 

[Channa]

I'm glad i'm all 12volts now :dance::dance::dance:

TBH i really did not know about this potential fire risk until i read this thread and if i succumb to installing 240v electrics will make sure the lead is spread around outside whereas i would probably have kept the unused section coiled up if i hadn't gleaned this important bit of safety advice. :idea-007:

Ian

Thank you, you have just illustrated the point I am labouring to make, not everyone is as competent in Electrics as some of the other posters here.

A part coiled lead is definitely a potential hazard as Graths narrowboat tale suggests.

I am not suggesting for a second I know that much about electricity, But the bits I am involved with I work to what is laid down by those above ....Whom I suspect have forgot more than possibly I know.

Conversely I am a qualified Acops gas engineer in Leisure accomodation vehicles and yes if I see bad practise at work I am like a rash.

Not to be awkward, but I wouldnt be true to myself or profession if I knowingfully allowed bad practise.

whether Ireact to facts or opinions matters not

Channa

 

[scampa]

Sorry if anyones' feathers have been ruffled by the advice I gave earlier, that wasn't the idea! As far as I'm concerned we are all friends and reasonably like-minded people here, so if we can give any help or sensible advice to help each other avoid problems and stay safe, then we should feel free to do so.

The two main points I made after the news item in the original post were:

1: Be aware of the potential fire hazard created by using a coiled-up extension lead, especially when it is feeding higher powered equipment. (this relates to all extension leads in general, and not just mains hook up leads specifically)

The fact that two or three members on this thread alone have had fires caused by this tells us that it's worth considering. As Shortcircuit and others have rightly said, you should have no problems when only using smaller items such as phone-chargers, shavers etc., but as some people genuinely don't know (or don't always think about) the current rating of some appliances, then it's better to err on the side of safety and fully uncoil the cable whenever you use it.

2: Make sure you have working smoke alarms, with a good batteries fitted, and test them weekly.

No need to comment on that, it's just common-sense.

And to clear up another point, the advice wasn't only based on the news clip, as the results of the investigation may not have been conclusive at that stage. Neither was the advice merely an "opinion". The advice is based on good old fashioned genuine knowledge and experience!

Now that's all cleared up, hopefully we can all agree that we're all on the same side here, then find another subject to disagree about??

PS.... As mentioned on another thread, we now have a Christmas theme header on this site, so this should be a time of peace and goodwill to all wildcampers! (I'm hoping someone else decides to give safety advice for Christmas tree lights, cos I don't think I dare!).

 

[kimbowbill]

Sorry if anyones' feathers have been ruffled by the advice I gave earlier, that wasn't the idea! As far as I'm concerned we are all friends and reasonably like-minded people here, so if we can give any help or sensible advice to help each other avoid problems and stay safe, then we should feel free to do so.

The two main points I made after the news item in the original post were:

1: Be aware of the potential fire hazard created by using a coiled-up extension lead, especially when it is feeding higher powered equipment. (this relates to all extension leads in general, and not just mains hook up leads specifically)

The fact that two or three members on this thread alone have had fires caused by this tells us that it's worth considering. As Shortcircuit and others have rightly said, you should have no problems when only using smaller items such as phone-chargers, shavers etc., but as some people genuinely don't know (or don't always think about) the current rating of some appliances, then it's better to err on the side of safety and fully uncoil the cable whenever you use it.

2: Make sure you have working smoke alarms, with a good batteries fitted, and test them weekly.

No need to comment on that, it's just common-sense.

And to clear up another point, the advice wasn't only based on the news clip, as the results of the investigation may not have been conclusive at that stage. Neither was the advice merely an "opinion". The advice is based on good old fashioned genuine knowledge and experience!

Now that's all cleared up, hopefully we can all agree that we're all on the same side here, then find another subject to disagree about??

PS.... As mentioned on another thread, we now have have a Christmas theme header on this site, so this should be a time of peace and goodwill to all wildcampers! (I'm hoping someone else decides to give safety advice for Christmas tree lights, cos I don't think I dare!).

Scampa, dont worry mate, they are all menopausal on here, it was great advice cos i ant got a clue, its something i never thought about, i never uncoil my lead, never in a million years did i think that could happen, so for me, and probably a few others, have learned something very valuable, thanks xx

 

[kangooroo]

Scampa, dont worry mate, they are all menopausal on here, it was great advice cos i ant got a clue, its something i never thought about, i never uncoil my lead, never in a million years did i think that could happen, so for me, and probably a few others, have learned something very valuable, thanks xx

You're not the only one who picks up tips from threads such as these.

 

[Pollik]

Dang...guilty and guilty again, that is me.

I am not a fan of smoke alarms (despite a chip pan fire a couple of years ago)...damn things go off when they should stay off, they stay off when they should go on, when they do go off, usually find that either there is no off switch or it doesn't work.

If they worked as they should and if they could be temporarily disabled while you finish cooking the bacon, I could become a fan. But most of the time I feel like taking a hammer to them.

Ehu...my main lead is usually coiled by hand (like a rope) and, although not fully uncoiled in use, it goes down on the ground in a sort of untidy kind of sort of badly coiled splayed heap. I should probably be more careful to spread it out properly.

 

[vindiboy]

The trouble with Safety advice is that it can be boring, and everyone knows someone who has done the opposite to the advice and lived to tell the tale . I.E smoked for 60 years, not got Cancer, Drank excessive Alcohol , still got a Liver , filled their own Gas Bottles, not blown themselves up, Ignored Electrical Safety rules, not electrocuted, etc etc, but the fact is although boring the advice is all good and in most cases given freely and well meaning, we all take chances in life and live to tell the tale, watch the TV Programme called You'v'e been Framed, some peoples antics on there make you cringe and usually you know what is going to happen before it does, so I guess as everyone has free will, some will be chancers and some will be more careful and mindful of the risks, just be careful out there .something is waiting to bite you on the @@@@

 

[Basil]

Common sense

A lot of the safety advice is common sense....:idea-007:
People seem to have lost this tool in the throw away society....
What ever happened to the fix and repair Dad's, and patch and sew Mums....
The Kids don't even play outside nowadays, don't ride their bikes, so don't do little repairs, and certainly don't get their hands dirty by helping Mum and Dad....
The future Mums and Dads will know how to do things even less....
It all comes down to years ago when it was looked down upon to get your hands dirty and be a blue collar worker....:idea-007:

 

[John H]

What ever happened to the fix and repair Dad's, and patch and sew Mums....
The Kids don't even play outside nowadays, don't ride their bikes, so don't do little repairs, and certainly don't get their hands dirty by helping Mum and Dad....

I know what you mean - and generally agree - but this is the way we brought up our children and it is now the way they are bringing up theirs - so some of us are doing our bit to keep sanity going!

 

[Deleted member 5816]

I'm glad i'm all 12volts now :dance::dance::dance:

TBH i really did not know about this potential fire risk until i read this thread and if i succumb to installing 240v electrics will make sure the lead is spread around outside whereas i would probably have kept the unused section coiled up if i hadn't gleaned this important bit of safety advice. :idea-007:

Ian

Ian at the risk of being accused of "Here's the paranoia and scare mongering" a timely reminder of dangers faced may have saved the couple in the caravan fire
its not all 240 volt supplies that cause fires take note of this fire that happened this week now this was a short circuit
Motorhome destroyed in West Felton blaze « Shropshire Star
to coin a phrase "Lets all be careful out there"Alf

 

[vindiboy]

I saw this on another Forum, bit poinient I thought .


Motorhome destroyed in West Felton blaze « Shropshire Star

 

[Deleted member 8180]

A lot of the safety advice is common sense....:idea-007:
People seem to have lost this tool in the throw away society....
What ever happened to the fix and repair Dad's, and patch and sew Mums....
The Kids don't even play outside nowadays, don't ride their bikes, so don't do little repairs, and certainly don't get their hands dirty by helping Mum and Dad....
The future Mums and Dads will know how to do things even less....
It all comes down to years ago when it was looked down upon to get your hands dirty and be a blue collar worker....:idea-007:

"common sense is not so common"
François-Marie Arouet (AKA Voltaire) (November 21, 1694 – May 30, 1778),