Gaslow

[derekfaeberwick]

hi derek want to start an aframe question or grey tank smell or or or or have you adaptered yours to fill butane bottles more use abroad our propne is only for uk .

I'd like to find an adapter to fill one of those nice see through B.P. bottles so I could sit it on the dinette table,topped off with a tastefully botched 240 volt lamp hooked up to my gennie. Now that would be a convesation stop ehm sorry coversation piece for you.

Must let The Burnip out now, he's needing a c£ap!

 

[John H]

I'd like to find an adapter to fill one of those nice see through B.P. bottles so I could sit it on the dinette table,topped off with a tastefully botched 240 volt lamp hooked up to my gennie. Now that would be a convesation stop ehm sorry coversation piece for you.

Must let The Burnip out now, he's needing a c£ap!

Don't get me started on dinette tables!!!!!!!!!

 

[vwalan]

dinnette tables thats rather posh. what you need derek is gas lights in your camper. heat n light keep the midges down lovelly .
think i can fill bp bottles , i do fill camping gas but normally from tipping out of another bottle. at home have a big 40odd kg bottle hung upside down just take out as you need it.
thats the bottle for using as a tank fill on the end but first weld a big nut or something on the side for taking gas .mount it with side outlet to top last for ages 90 odd litre ideal .have seen them with a regulater and outlet from another bottle put into side of bottle works a treat.
john wants to tell us about tables now, come on.

 

[John H]

Come on, now - I said DON'T get me started on dinette tables.............

 

[vwalan]

do you know the story of the man trapped between gas bottle adaptors and generators . he stated talking about dinette tables .ha ha come on .
we all want to know the end.

 

[John H]

Was once attacked by a dinette table (or was it a crocodile - they look so similar, don't they?) while attempting to juggle three gas bottles and simultaneously kicking six other campers who were composing a generator symphony next to my van (which was parked in what I thought was a remote spot in the Sahara). To cap it all, they let their 101 dalmatians crap all over my floor - but I'd really rather not talk about it.

 

[vwalan]

yes well what can we say. have you any experiance of aframes , exploding toilets in the mountains.

 

[John H]

I'd forgotten all about that exploding toilet until you reminded me. I think I need a lie down now......................have you seen my medicine?

 

[Deleted member 8180]

I had my filler fitted on to the coach work just to the right of the locker. Seems ok there. I have a spare 6KG standard gas bottle in the locker as well just in case I run out of LPG or cant get any but its been in there all year and never been used. Might take it out. Guess what will happen if I do?

You will top up at a dodgy French filling station and get propane/ butane mix then your regulator will trip everytime you turn your heating on.

 

[Deleted member 8180]

mastodon , how can you pump gas into a standby bottle ?
if it isn't turned off how is it a standby , it is always being used !

Both bottles feed into the same regulator so if you open both taps pressure will equalise between them (becomes one big tank instead of 2 seperates). I keep the standby turned off - I don't have the auto changeover widget, I just get wet which is penance for running out...

 

[lebesset]

I keep reading about the different gas mixes that are sold as lpg around europe

as far as I can see what you get everywhere now if you buy lpg [ and I ran lpg vehicles for over 20 years so have some experience ] is industrial grade propane , exactly as you do if you buy a bottle of propane

I happened to come across the Total tanker filling a neighbours domestic propane tank a couple of years ago here in france , and , having an interest in the matter , stopped for a chat while he was pumping ; in answer to my questions he said that he filled his tanker from the propane tank at the bottle filling factory ; that his next port of call was the lpg tank at the Total garage ; after that other domestic tanks ; so that's what you get in my part of france at least , just as you get in england ; I also asked at the filling station opposite the old gas factory in alicante ......same answer

for those who don't know , industrial grade propane is roughly refined propane containing perhaps 10% pollutants , typically methane , butane , napthane and other HC gasses ; good enough for the purpose for which it is used , but certainly far from perfect , as long as it gives the minimum calorific value required they can sell it

it's another reason why I always empty bottles before I refill ; if you don't ....the heavy ends accumulate at the bottom of the tank while the propane burns off , so gradually increasing the percentage of junk contained therein with the consequent raising of the minimum gassing temperature

 

[vwalan]

you may be right .but being a person that converts things on making barbies and wood burners etc from bottles have never found anything but very clean steel ,sometimes even chauk type mrks inside the bottles. there is a varying gas standard but in europe its not too bad . north africa have another gas petane or something it burns thats all i know but it does work in hotter climates . have a maroc bottle here it still works but is abit smokey. i like to empty bottles like you though makes more sense. be interesting if the gaslow bottles do in fact get much buildup. most normal bottles only get exchanged when empty. cheers alan.

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Brilliant! Coomon sense and humour prevails all.

 

[tresrikay]

Most tankers have at least 4 seperate tanks, so that one truck can be delivering up to 4 differing types of similar fuel, I work in a school and our deliveries of oil for the heating boilers may be along side, Red diesel for agriculture, grey diesel for auto use, green oil for boilers and traditional oil for boilers..... so just because a garage is the next port of call means nothing about the fuel delivered at the last.

 

[Deleted member 8180]

Recently I spent about a week trying to get my (gaslow powered) Truma heating to work befor a trip to Scotland. Fridge cooker and hob worked fine, but the heating tripped the regulator button every time, even when everything else was off. Spoke to Truma and their opinion was a dodgy regulator (2 yrs old). Not being convinced I fitted a calor propane tank and everything worked fine (through the same regulator). After burning off the remaining gas in the gaslow tank and refilling it, everything was back to normal. Having tried a camping gaz bottle I know the heating won't work on a butane so IMHO the last fill I got in France had a substantial butane content. Comments welcome...

 

[lebesset]

well there is absolutely no reason why your heating should not work on a camping gas butane cylinder so long as the temperature is high enough for the butane to gas properly ; unfortunately if you require the heating on the temperature is almost certainly NOT high enough

there are 2 major problems with a gaslow type system

as I stated before ,and you have clearly found out , if you refill before the bottle is empty the heavy ends will accumulate and you end up with a liquid in the bottom which doesn't gas properly and has a much lower calorific value ; ok to boil a kettle [ possibly with a sooty flame ], but not ok for heating systems or maybe even a fridge ; nothing to do with the french putting lots of butane in the mix ...my vehicles wouldn't have run at -20C if they did !
in my days of running on lpg [ up to 6 months ago ] I always let the tank completely empty every 3 or 4 fills to stop the accumulation of heavy ends ...even though internal combustion engines are more forgiving than heating systems , and the horizontal cylinders keep the gasses better mixed [ no baffles of course ]

cut off valves have been know to fail in gas containers , and allow filling in excess of 80% ; I have had it twice in 20 years ;fortunately you can't fill to more than 10 bar which means you only get to perhaps 90 % , which is actually pretty safe ...safer than driving your motorhome down the road , anyway

so the only way to use a gaslow cylinder imho is

always completely empty it to stop the accumulation of heavy ends

then fill only with the rated volume of gas in case of any problem with the cut off valve

in other words , do exactly what I would do with any gas cylinder I use

oh btw , tresigay , you are referring to tankers carrying liquids ; lpg trucks are not tankers per se of course ,but pressure vessels , and therefore only one compartment whatever their size as you can observe yourself

and alan , now you are being picky , yes , you will probably find some pentane , ethylene , butadiene and other bits and pieces , and anything from 85% propane and up can actually be sold as propane ...even HD5 [ refined propane ] does to some extent ; but I am trying to inform , not demonstrate my background as an industrial chemist !

 

[John H]

so the only way to use a gaslow cylinder imho is

always completely empty it to stop the accumulation of heavy ends

then fill only with the rated volume of gas in case of any problem with the cut off valve

in other words , do exactly what I would do with any gas cylinder I use

I usually refill once the first of my two cylinders registers empty (by this time I am, of course, using the second cylinder). This means that every other refill the cylinder is empty. Does this mean I am ok or should I wait for both cylinders to be completely empty? If so, then one of the main reasons for having the system (ie not running out of gas in the middle of the night or in the rain etc) goes out the window and Alan ends up being right - I couldn't bear that!

 

[vwalan]

what is needed is when the first cylinder is empty you need to be able to seperate the bottles , from what i have seen gaslow use 2 different regulators to do the automatic change over, shame its not manual then you could isolate one from the other. it was awhile ago i removed a gas low system in spain due to not being able to fill there. i like the idea you empty one then can either fill one and empty the other then fill that one. i hope that makes sense. i do like the theory of gaslow but not the price. the germans have hadnon exchange refillable marketed bottles for years .

 

[John H]

Alan, just to let you know that you can get lpg tanks refilled in Spain now - not as widely as elsewhere in Europe but the situation is improving. The are a number of websites which contain information but this is a good one: www.autogas-forum.de (Umweltfreundliches und preisguenstiges Autofahren mit Autogas u. Erdgas) (and I can vouch for the existence of the sites at Valladolid, Cordoba and Granada).

 

[vwalan]

hi john yes i know we used to fill them in malaga just down the road from my mates garage but itsbeen knocked down now. they arent very conveniant in spain i use a cepsa bottle as one of my refillables. all depends where i,m going if only france i have a total, can exc it in france or maroc.i like the availability to fill or exchange sometimes itscheaper to exc some times fill.