Gas tank shut off access

barge1914

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Another question for the Brains Trust...
How do you go on for accessing the shut off valve on the fixed gas tank when the tank is too far back from the van perimeter to reach or easily see. Would a shut off valve remote from the tank be acceptable for inspection by the likes of Eurotunnel? How for example do you manage on those Autosleeper’s where the valves seem to be too high up to see?
 
When we go eurotunnel I just close the three valves off under the seat, which they have always been happy with.
Not that they know what they are looking at
 
Lpg. Rules and regs state each gas system must have an emergency control valve ..that can and is on a lot of vans the valve on the bottle ...if therefore a control valve is fitted further downstream it would suffice as a Ecv.
 
No, it wouldn't. To truly cut off the gas bottle you have to turn it off at source.

Sure you can have excess flow valves on your pigtails, even a fancy Truma stop control impact sensor at the regulator with the specified Truma pigtails which allows you to use it in motion, but ultimately if you have a big smash all bets are off if any of that gets ripped off.

If you don't have any of that, strictly you must always turn off the cylinder before driving. No the other gas valves downstream of the regulator are not sufficient. All that they are for is for isolating bits of equipment, if necessary. Mine have never been closed since I bought the van.
 
No, it wouldn't. To truly cut off the gas bottle you have to turn it off at source.

Sure you can have excess flow valves on your pigtails, even a fancy Truma stop control impact sensor at the regulator with the specified Truma pigtails which allows you to use it in motion, but ultimately if you have a big smash all bets are off if any of that gets ripped off.

If you don't have any of that, strictly you must always turn off the cylinder before driving. No the other gas valves downstream of the regulator are not sufficient. All that they are for is for isolating bits of equipment, if necessary. Mine have never been closed since I bought the van.

I'm with "Sharpie" on this one, and (since it is my life at stake as well as theirs) I would grass on anyone trying to avoid this.
I am against travelling with the gas on and relying on a impact sensor for the same reason.
 
My gas locker is at the rear nearside corner of my Ducato panel van. It would be the first thing to take the impact of a rear-end shunt. It's no trouble to open the rear door and turn off the cylinder.

Also makes sure I have not forgotten to turn the fridge off gas, thereby having a naked flame burning just inside the exterior vents. Not great if you use a filling station with that left burning.

You wouldn't dream of lighting up a cigarette at a petrol station would you, but this is far worse.

What happens if you have the full Truma setup and a fancy auto changeover fridge when you stop and turn off the engine ? I think it probably lights up the gas. Also allows you to keep the Truma heating running when driving along and stationary. Maybe not such a risk as the fridge, but there is still a big flame burning inside it.
 
My gas locker is at the rear nearside corner of my Ducato panel van. It would be the first thing to take the impact of a rear-end shunt. It's no trouble to open the rear door and turn off the cylinder.

Also makes sure I have not forgotten to turn the fridge off gas, thereby having a naked flame burning just inside the exterior vents. Not great if you use a filling station with that left burning.

You wouldn't dream of lighting up a cigarette at a petrol station would you, but this is far worse.

What happens if you have the full Truma setup and a fancy auto changeover fridge when you stop and turn off the engine ? I think it probably lights up the gas. Also allows you to keep the Truma heating running when driving along and stationary. Maybe not such a risk as the fridge, but there is still a big flame burning inside it.

you having a gas locker makes it easy to turn of the gas, but the question in the opening post refers to gas tanks that are fitted underneath the vehicle which are not easy to get to, as on mine I have to crawl underneath and remove a cover before I can access the shut of valve.
 
You could fit a solenoid valve instead of the manual one to open and close it with a flick of a switch.

The valves themselves draw quite a bit of current to pull them open, but once open that current can be reduced to a very low level to keep them that way, using additional electronics.

Here's the one Gasit supply: https://www.gasit.co.uk/lpg-tank-remote-operated-solonoid-valve.html

And the ECU: https://www.gasit.co.uk/electronic-driver-for-soleboid-service-valve.html

£85 for the set, plus fitting of course.

If you were minded to you could even interlock with the ignition switch so that it automatically cut off the gas at source when the engine was running.
 
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My GasIt tanks have excess flow shutoff valves on the tanks themselves.

My Thetford fridge with auto energy selection only relights after a 15 minute interval after the engine is switched off.

This offers protection whilst filling with fuel.
 
My gas locker is at the rear nearside corner of my Ducato panel van. It would be the first thing to take the impact of a rear-end shunt. It's no trouble to open the rear door and turn off the cylinder.

Also makes sure I have not forgotten to turn the fridge off gas, thereby having a naked flame burning just inside the exterior vents. Not great if you use a filling station with that left burning.

You wouldn't dream of lighting up a cigarette at a petrol station would you, but this is far worse.

What happens if you have the full Truma setup and a fancy auto changeover fridge when you stop and turn off the engine ? I think it probably lights up the gas. Also allows you to keep the Truma heating running when driving along and stationary. Maybe not such a risk as the fridge, but there is still a big flame burning inside it.
Our Truma always waits 15 minutes after the engine stops before switching over from battery to gas, for that very reason.
 
My GasIt tanks have excess flow shutoff valves on the tanks themselves.

My Thetford fridge with auto energy selection only relights after a 15 minute interval after the engine is switched off.

This offers protection whilst filling with fuel.
So does my modern Gaslow. It works, I've tested it.

As well as a level gauge that actually works accurately and is easily readable from a horizontal position. And a filter for contaminants in the gas. Not sure how to service that if it clogs.

Gasit played catch-up with Gaslow, their tanks are still appear to me to not as refined, but glad to hear that they at least include an integral excess flow device.

The earlier ones did not. Neither did the previous Gaslow design.

When they introduced them not so long ago they dumped their old stock at bargain prices. I'm sure there are many many Gaslow and Gasit installations, perhaps the majority, that have none of these safety features.

You can look at my recent post on another thread to view my overall concerns about LPG safety.

Some of these under-tank installations have the tank in the area just behind the exhaust silencer, as well as the airflow from the engine etc. Ho hum.

This link might work:


Good to hear that some 'fridges AES systems have a 15 minute delay before sparking up the gas. I didn't know that.
 
The level gauge on the more expensive GasIt so-called 'four hole' tank is very accurate though it does require using a mirror to read it in situ in the locker.

I have fitted an in-line vapour filter. This has a spin off bowl with a renewable element within.
 
When I chose my Gaslow some years ago neither Gasit nor Alugas had anything as sophisticated,

The Gaslow had the "multivalve" incorporating filler, outlet with filter, excess flow cutoff and an accurate easily readable level gauge. The price was right, the choice was clear.

Gasit were then just basic crude things. Alugas likewise, at twice the price to save maybe 5 kilos.

Nowadays things may be different, I wouldn't know. Gasit have upped their game a bit, Alugas appear to have now got a similar multivalve to Gaslow's but are still very expensive, for a few kilos weight saving. Anyway I prefer steel.

If starting again today, no question, it would be another Gaslow R67 cylinder.
 
Sharpie elsewhere you accuse my post re a Ecv further downstream as dangerous .....do you have the legislation ,gas installation section that categorically state that ,? I think merely expressing a personal opinion ?

What I can tell you as I mentioned on a bottle of gas the bottle valve suffices as an Ecv ...the problem becomes when more than one bottle or a tank is employed.

The gas safety regulation s of January 1996 state on a multi cylinder arrangement the Ecv will be fitted directly after the regulator the gas safety regulation 9 (5) requires the use of separate emergency isolation valve where 2 or more cylinders are used at the same time ( auto shut off type arrangement)

The problem with this isn't unlike a bottle valve killing the gas at source there is still part of the system live

Every and I mean every fixed bulk system I have worked on has had the Ecv post 2 no stage regulator , no exceptions that I can recall,, because isolating a under slung tank is not always easy to turn off or practical in terms of safety and time taken an isolation valve fitted as soon as practical within the system is sufficient and I can't anything that contradicts

I have enclosed a schematic of a typical bulk installation which although static by nature consideration as an installer needs to be giving from perils such as vehicle impact proximity to drains opening windows etc
 
Schematic
image.jpeg
 
Channa, I'm not sure how much read-across there is between a static installation and that in a vehicle..

You may be technically correct in saying that just closing the appliance isolation valves is considered sufficient. My van has three of them. Is that the same as a single ECV ?

An ECV is for use in emergencies. Not routine use. It's there for if e.g. a house catches fire and the firefighters need to go in. They'll turn it off first.

I am not au-fait with every applicable regulation throughout the EU, merely conscious of the dangers inherent in vehicle LPG systems, which appear to me to me to be mostly at the high pressure side. In boats the dangers are more acute and strictly regulated, they don't have drop vents.

Properly isolating ones gas supply before setting off is at the very least just prudence. It may possibly be a legal requirement in some countries, I don't know. Certainly Truma imply that their Monocontrol regulator which incorporates an impact sensor is required when using gas whilst in motion. Together with their special pigtails which incorporate excess flow valves at the cylinder end which have to be manually re-set if triggered. Perhaps that is so in Germany for example ?

Eurotunnel prohibit LPG powered vehicles, doubtless for their own good reasons. After all they've had at least two major fires down there. An underslung LPG tank is little different from an LPG vehicle installation. These things are vulnerable to damage, being underslung, and AFAIK not subject to any official testing regime in the UK. Anyone can buy the bits and have a go at fitting them themselves, it's encouraged by the suppliers. I'd like to think that they would have done their research first and do it properly, but who knows ? AFAIK they do not include an excess flow valve either. If they get ripped off, or just fall off what happens ? Even just go rusty on the outside, compromising their integrity.

Then I've seen them placed in an area that can get very hot. Autosleeper do this, it is about the only location available on a Ducato. Do these things have pressure relief valves to blow off below 30 bar like regular cylinders ? That's 435 psi by the way an immense pressure for such a thing. You'll hit that once the tank gets above 60C.

I do know that in Germany for example vehicles are subject to annual gas inspections. As was my static caravan, if only for insurance purposes. Even the regulator was checked over various parameters and recorded on the certificate. Yet these are fit-and-forget items on campervans.

When looking into diesel hobs I found reference on a Finnish manufacturer's website referring to restrictions on parking in their cities when using vans with gas installations, that can be avoided by using a pure diesel setup. That makes sense.

To summarise: The OP asked a sensible question. I digressed admittedly. I still think that any vehicle gas installation should have a readily accessible way of isolating the supply as close to the source as possible, and be in the habit of using it. In my case it's simple, reach into the locker and turn off the bottle. With an underslung tank solenoid valves are available, not particularly expensive, and would give peace of mind.

The last Autosleeper that I looked at appeared to have a complete installation by Gasit, tidily done. I'd be surprised if it didn't have a solenoid valve at the tank, but perhaps not.

If I could eliminate gas from my van I'd do so but that's not practical. It's so convenient. Nevertheless I treat it with great caution. Others seem to be more casual, perhaps not fully understanding the dangers.
 
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Going off at a slight tangent here.... On the subject of any pigtails, remember they have a limited life-span.

I checked with my insurer on the issue of driving with the tank valve in the open poisition, they were okay with it (but I've also got a truma crash valve fitted).

ideally I'd switch off at source every time I drove, but I tend not to. Though I do at ferries/Eurostar etc.
 
Good practice hextal and easy done with bottles, what is practical with a tank a different proposition . I smile when people say they have crash valves like it is an advance in technology the realty is it is a upso valve French regulators have used for years ..under pressure shut off valves ..their biggest issue forgetting you have one when changing a bottle
 
So much for harmonisation too re pigtails British ones stamped with the date of manufacture . French one stamped with a use by date ...regulators suggested you change every 10 years an take a view ! What sort of guideline and noose is that ?

I personally do a let by test whatever the issue as a regulator letting by can and does mask problems downstream ...otherwise learn the hard way and potentially waste a lot of time . Black magic at times the gas job
 

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