French cities condemned

Belgian

Guest
(I got this from a Belgian site, but will not withold it for you.)

The CLC (Comité de Liaison du Camping-car) (a motorhome organisation) brought the cities of La Baule, Nice and Cannes to justice for discrimination of motorhomers by putting height barriers, and /or interdictions for motorhomes and overnightparking and other abusive measures. :confused:
And they won the law suit. :)
All discrimination has to be ended and justice condemned the cities to pay a fine to CLC, and they should retire all discriminating measures towards moterhomers. :)
In France, allready generally motorhome friendly, they sure take the bull by the horns. :eek:
An idea to be followed ? :confused::rolleyes:
Leo
 
Bet this never happens in Britain.

We can only dream.

I think we are starting to see a few councils get the message and perhaps it is for us to educate and enlighten them as to the benefits of motorhome friendly parking.
 
french sites condemmed

Would be interesting if anybody were to attempt this in uk, get knocked back in court, then take case to the euroupean courts were there now there is a precidence been set? Only trouble is there is no organisation strong enough over here to challenge the goverment.:confused:
 
Would be interesting if anybody were to attempt this in uk, get knocked back in court, then take case to the euroupean courts were there now there is a precidence been set? Only trouble is there is no organisation strong enough over here to challenge the goverment.:confused:

We do have organisations that are big enough to take on government but they do not wish to do so because they are dominated and controlled by tuggers.
 
We do have organisations that are big enough to take on government but they do not wish to do so because they are dominated and controlled by tuggers.

So why don't we have a go at them?
I did send Admin a PM, a while ago to set up a Poll of all our members, and try and get the Government to listen, if only briefly. Now would be the best time probably, due to pending elections, and votes needed.
It would appear that our neighbours on mainland europe, yet again, have some sort of advantage over us, are we soft or what?
Get the other Forums involved as well, to swell the numbers, after all we have something in common.

Happy Camping.
Bill.
 
So why don't we have a go at them?
I did send Admin a PM, a while ago to set up a Poll of all our members, and try and get the Government to listen, if only briefly. Now would be the best time probably, due to pending elections, and votes needed.
It would appear that our neighbours on mainland europe, yet again, have some sort of advantage over us, are we soft or what?
Get the other Forums involved as well, to swell the numbers, after all we have something in common.

Happy Camping.
Bill.

I have sent an email to the CC and C&CC as well as the Motor Caravanners' Club. I noticed it was on the MMM Out and about Motorhome forum.

I would suggest other members do the same and stir the big boys into action.
 
John,

could you post names/email addresses of who you wrote to?

If they get a flood of emails they are more likely to take action or pass it on to a higher authority.

Regards
Captain.
 
For those interessed I put hereby the compete text: (in French)
25 Février 2010

STATIONNEMENT DES CAMPING-CARS

LA BAULE, NICE ET CANNES CONDAMNEES PAR LE TRIBUNAL ADMINISTRATIF

Après plusieurs années de procédure du Comité de Liaison du camping-car (C.L.C) à l’encontre des villes de La Baule, Nice et Cannes, qui ont édicté des arrêtés municipaux illégaux, les Tribunaux administratifs de Nantes et de Nice viennent de condamner ces trois communes à abroger leurs arrêtés.

Ces décisions démontrent qu’aucune ville, pour emblématique qu’elle soit en terme de tourisme « haut de gamme » et de réputation internationale, ne peut se soustraire à l’accueil de tous les touristes dans leur diversité.

Ces jugements démontrent que l’interdiction n’est plus une solution pour les maires et que les tribunaux sont conscients de la discrimination exercée envers les camping-cars et leurs occupants.

Une jurisprudence très positive pour le Comité de Liaison du Camping-car est donc établie ; celle-ci va soutenir les actions du C.L.C dans sa lutte pour la reconnaissance et le respect des droits des camping-caristes.

La Baule :
L’installation de portiques, autrement appelés barres de hauteur, est remise en cause

Le 18 Décembre 2009, le Tribunal Administratif de Nantes a condamné la commune de la Baule-Escoublac à abroger son arrêté du 24 Juin 2005 interdisant l’accès et le stationnement des campingcars à sept parkings par des portiques limitant le passage des véhicules à 2m de hauteur.
Les considérations d’ordre général (stationnement et sécurité), ne satisfont pas à l’obligation de motivation prescrite par les dispositions du Code général des collectivités territoriales.
(art. L.2212-1 ; L-2212-2 ; L.2213-3).

Le Tribunal n’associe pas sa décision d’une injonction sous astreinte de retrait des portiques mais indique que leur enlèvement découle de l’abrogation même de l’arrêté.

La commune de La Baule est condamnée à verser la somme de 1 200 € au C.L.C


Nice :
De très nombreuses voies interdites sans motivation

L’arrêté du 13 Avril 1999 est annulé par décision du Tribunal Administratif de Nice du 26 Janvier 2010.
L’interdiction couvrait un grand nombre de places, chaussées, accotements et dépendances de voies ouvertes à la circulation, ainsi que trois sites classés de la commune. Etait également considéré comme abusif tout stationnement supérieur à 24h consécutives.
(Code de l’urbanisme art. R-443-1 ; R-443-3 – Code général des collectivités territoriales art. L 2213-2)

La légalité de l’arrêté a été mise en cause par le Tribunal arguant que l’avis du conseil municipal n’a pas été pris et que la Commission départementale de l’action touristique n’a pas été consultée.
L’absence de motivation est également mentionnée dans la décision de justice. En effet, leur dimension ne justifie pas en elle-même la raison pour laquelle elle serait de nature à entraver la libre circulation et le stationnement des camping-cars.

La commune de Nice est condamnée à verser la somme de 800 euros au C.L.C

Cannes :
Procédure entachée d’illégalité et disproportion des interdictions

Par son jugement rendu également le 26 janvier 2010, le Tribunal Administratif de Nice annule l’arrêté du 12 Juillet 2006 réglementant le stationnement des camping-cars à Cannes.

Cet arrêté concernait un nombre très important de voies et places publiques, ainsi que trois sites « classés » de la commune. L’arrêté de Cannes interdisait une grande partie du centre ville ainsi que les sites d’intérêt touristique reconnus de tous.
(Code de l’urbanisme art. R-443-1 ; R-443-3 ; R 443-10 - Code général des collectivités territoriales art. L 2213-2)


La prise de l’arrêté est entachée d’une procédure irrégulière car l’avis du conseil municipal et de la Commission départementale de l’action touristique n’ont pas été sollicités.
Mais le tribunal retient surtout le caractère général et abusif de l’interdiction, la disproportion de celleci face aux objectifs poursuivis et l’absence de motivation.

La commune de Cannes est condamnée à verser la somme de 800 euros au C.L.C


Les multiples actions du Comité de Liaison du Camping-car ont contribué à l’accueil convenable des camping-cars dans de nombreuses municipalités. Celles-ci se réjouissent de recevoir la clientèle des camping-caristes qui voyage à longueur d’année, consomme sur place et génère des retombées
économiques locales.


Depuis une dizaine d’années, près d’une cinquantaine de communes ont abrogé leurs arrêtés municipaux suite à des courriers, des rencontres informatives, voire des recours gracieux dans certains cas.

Les Tribunaux administratifs ont été saisis, pour les communes les plus réfractaires, qui ont conclu à l’illégalité des arrêtés, leur caractère abusif et discriminatoire et l’absence caractérisée de motivation des interdictions.

Avec ces trois nouvelles décisions de justice, la poursuite des actions dédiées au stationnement du camping-car, véhicule automobile à part entière soumis à la même législation qu’une voiture particulière, sera clairement favorisée.


Caroline NAGIEL
Secrétaire général
 
Well done Belgian,

I had read that the mayors were acting illegally in a French magazine, which quoted the relevant articles, but now a precedent has been set they won't be able to ignore the law.

Our experience is with the mayor of Martigues having byelaws restricting access. The locals say it is just to stop the gitans but now they will need a different excuse.

Regards,
Brian
 
John,

could you post names/email addresses of who you wrote to?

If they get a flood of emails they are more likely to take action or pass it on to a higher authority.

Regards
Captain.

enquiries@caravanclub.co.uk
Colin Reay" <info@motorcaravanners.eu>

Practical Motorhome and Motorhomefiction.co.uk
"Diamond Dave" <Diamond.Dave@Haymarket.com>,

For the Camping and Caravanning Club go to their website The Camping and Caravanning Club - Contact Us at the bottom of the page is a "Contact us" an complete their online enquiry form.

MMM has had this posted on their forum at Outandabout Live
 
Thanks to Belgian's initiative, I have found more information from the following site:
CLC : Abrogation d'arrêtés
It is in French but this is my translation. Belgian might like to correct. It is worth noticing the 3.5 tonnes implication and how long the fight has been.

Hope this inspires local action,
Brian

Repeal of bylaws.
PARKING OF MOTOR HOMES:
REPEAL OF ABUSED MUNICIPAL ORDERS!

Following the activities undertaken over several years by the Committee for Camping Car Liaison
and the Union of Manufacturers of Leisure Vehicles, several laws relative to abusive parking byelaws
have been overturned.

Remember that the Camping Car is a vehicle under 3.5 tonnes and is classified as Ml (car) at
European level.
It is therefore allowed to park where a car can.
It is subject to the Highway Traffic Act, MOT and anti-pollution requirements and has no sticker.

The mayor may enact a bylaw, but it must be motivated by problems proven and concerning vehicles the
same size, weight and mass, that is to say not to be discriminatory. Moreover, general and absolute
prohibition is illegal.

When a problem occurs, it should, of course, dealt with according to the law. But it is the driver who is
involved and not the vehicle.

Thanks to information associated with local and territorial authorities and the intervention of the CLC
and SICVERL in national motorhome seminars, the recreational vehicle can benefit from the appropriate
hospitality that its users can legitimately expect.

Congratulations to the French local authorities to whom the economic interest represented by this mode of
recreation has not been overlooked. They offer a good home for campers with respect to their mobile
character and provide service areas with technical amenities. Pleasant areas for stopping without stress,
with mutual respect for the environment itself have also been offered.

Repeals
Saint-Cast le Guildo (Côtes d'Armor), 1st July 2004 (Order of June 30, 1997)
Sables d'Olonne (Vendée) June 30, 2004 (decree of November 19, 2003)
St. Paul les Dax June 27, 2004 (adopted on 8 November 1994 and May 21, 1996)
La Plaine on Wed June 21, 2004 (Order of August 29, 2003)
Etel (Morbihan) June 17, 2004 (Order of July 20, 1993)
Dives sur Mer (Calvados) May 26, 2004 (Order of June 24, 1995)
Lacanau (Gironde) July 17, 2003 (Order of April 23, 1991 and June 24, 1998)
Villeneuve Loubet (Alpes-Maritimes) Order of August 10, 1994 Repealed by order of 12/8/2004
Narbonne (Aude) Order of July 25, 1996 Repealed by order of August 11, 2004
Dinard (Ille-et-Vilaine) Order of August 16, 1983 Repealed by order of June 11, 2004
Bagnols les Bains (Lozère) Order of July 30, 1986 Repealed by order of August 11, 2004
The Barcarès (Pyrenees Orientales) Order of September 5, 1994 Repealed by Order of 30/7/2004
The Administrative Tribunal of Poitiers ruling issued April 6, 2006 and is repealed bylaw St. Marie
de Ré (Charente Maritime) from July 22, 2004.
The city was ordered also to pay compensation of 700 € to the Committee for Camping-car Liaison.
Several repeals have been implemented directly with municipalities:
Cagnes sur mer (Alpes Maritimes) Order of July 13, 2005 repealed April 11, 2006
Chalon sur Saône (Saône et Loire) Decree of 27 June 2005 repealed April 7, 2006
Grand Camp Maisy (Calvados) Order of June 30, 2004 repealed May 22, 2006
The city of Menton (Alpes Maritimes), which receives 100 to 150 campers per day was seen on 1
June by the Secretary General of the CLC.
Parking is allowed on three car parks and 90% of the territory.
 
Last edited:
Glassclear

Thanks Provencal, brillant ;)
This extract only might be very usefull for it implies EU regulations to which all members states have to comply:

Remember that the Camping Car is a vehicle under 3.5 tonnes and is classified as Ml (car) at European level.
It is therefore allowed to park where a car can.
It is subject to the Highway Traffic Act, MOT and anti-pollution requirements and has no sticker.

The mayor may enact a bylaw, but it must be motivated by problems proven and concerning vehicles the same size, weight and mass, that is to say not to be discriminatory. Moreover, general and absolute prohibition is illegal.

When a problem occurs, it should, of course, dealt with according to the law. But it is the driver who is involved and not the vehicle.


Who dares to throw the stick in the henhouse ? :confused::eek:;)
 
what wonderfull ideas ! but all pie in the sky i think
on the down side we brits just dont stick together as do the french
WHY NOT
but ile sign anything that might help make my lifestyle better
i am at the moment trying to get our residents association to stick together on some issues we have,
but mostly the answer i get is i just want an easy life and if i have to pay a bit more or suffer a downturn in my local services ile suffer in silence
and that is what they do (idiots)
 
Defitzi

Would be interesting if anybody were to attempt this in uk, get knocked back in court, then take case to the euroupean courts were there now there is a precidence been set? Only trouble is there is no organisation strong enough over here to challenge the goverment.:confused:
can't it go direct to the European court- it has ALREADY RULED SO SHOULD NOT IT'S RULINGS BE ENFORCEABLE EVERYWHERE....
and surely there are lots of orgs that are big enough to challenge but....
I think it unlikely the CC or the others like it would challenge because it is not in their interest. The record shows they are in favour of barriers so as to ensure continuing revenue to themselves. i RECALL A DELEGATION OF CARAVAN AND VESTED MH INTERESTS GATECRASHED A MAJOR SYMPOSIUM IN FRANCE ADVISING ALL AND SUNDRY TO ENSURE A TOTAL BAN OF AIRES AND WILDCAMPING.
 

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