France ban?

[rugbyken]

scotland has maintained their level of protection masks in shops etc all through the summer not really made much difference to the infection rates there & here, i am triple jabbed and wear a mask as & when i feel the need but all the experts are calling wolf too often their models are always excessive & not reached take for instance omicron it was going to double every 2-3 days it has in fact almost stood still in all but london , the press look for sound bites & trumpet the worst possible cases at every opportunity, i don’t dispute the potential danger of covid just not as scared of it as i used to be we live with 7/8 pandemics already influenza, smallpox, polio, etc even Aids the last killed 35m worldwide in 8 years covid only 5.5 in two years the spanish flu 18m in one year i have had inoculations to protect myself from all of them and don’t know what’s in any of those jabs either,

 

[mariesnowgoose]

There has always been an (hysterical?) obsession with reporting the total number of cases above everything else.

But all I've ever wanted to know is:
a) how many hospitalisations
b) how many deaths

Both of which, in my mind, are vastly more important and pertinent to how our health system operates than the overall 'number of cases'.

But that's probably just my naive, over-simplistic view of things.

I do remember an ICU nurse I know (local North East hospital covid ward work) telling me that during the first lockdown they were so under-employed at one stage they'd organised quizzes and exercise session to relieve the boredom during their shifts. They weren't allowed to be utilised for any other work outside of covid ICU at the time either. No surprise then that we have huge hospital backlogs for all sorts of other things now.

Direct example: I haven't heard a dicky bird about some follow up cancer treatment I was supposed to be re-starting about 5 months ago. Good job I'm not personally bothered about it, ey?

How many of the Nightingale hospitals were actually used for covid patients? Anyone know offhand?

I can only assume they've worked from 'worse case scenario' predictions from day one.

It's (hopefully!) looking promising that this new omicron variant is turning out to be not quite so destructive in terms of severity and deaths (and long-covid!). One thing for sure, we can't keep starting and stopping the daily life of nations forever, virus or no virus.
All any of us can do is hold fingers crossed and keep calm and patient

 

[Derekoak]

The latest figures show that Spain is fast catching up with the UK, the daily new cases per head of population are running at approx. 80% of UK.

Well we agree that Spain is safer than the UK. That was my point.
What I have seen is that Spain is at about 700 relative to the UK at about 1300 reference John Hopkins university. World in data . More like 55%.
Daily cases in both countries are accelerating very fast.

 

[Derekoak]

I agree with you Marie. Hospitalizations and death are mostly more important. But in the small case of relative safety against infection of me! the number of infections per million in the population is relevant. My chance of meeting an infectious person in the supermarket is apparently just over half in Spain compared to here.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Exactly so, Derek. Just proceed with caution, especially if you are in a high risk group.

Neil picked up some kind of nasty bug/lurgy/virus from somewhere about a month ago (tested and no, not Covid). He is better now but still not 100% better.

Me, I‘m in one of the supposedly highest risk groups but didn’t pick anything up and am still as fit as a fiddle - well, as fit as I’ll ever be that is!

Fingers crossed the luck holds, or if I do catch it the jabs do their job. Still reckon I had a dose of Covid back end of 2019 but obviously no way to confirm/prove

 

[mark61]

Surely the number of tests carried out needs to be taken into account?

 

[Trotter]

It looks like Covid of one strain or another is going to be with us for the foreseeable future. I reckon we can take that as a given.
What do we do going forward? Have a lockdown every winter, of try to get on with it. Thankfully, that’s one decision I’ll not have to make.
The wearing of face masks is probably more of a feel good measure, than actually doing a lot of good. I’m happy to go along with that. Vaccinations, those currently available, and the ones being worked, on are the real benefits here.
Flippant as I may sound, my heart goes out to those bereaved because of the pandemic. Although, I would like to know, how many of these tragic deaths are caused by covid solely, and not part of another ongoing problem.

My own take on this is to be aware of the problem. Take the advice of washing hands, wearing masks and the like.
BUT, locking my self away? No chance.
As much as I know it annoys at least one member on here, travelling abroad is one thing I’ll do as soon as European countries open up. My van wasn’t bought to sit on my drive.

The one thing I do know about all of this is, We Ain’t Getting Out Of This Life Alive. So enjoy what time you have left.

 

[ricc]

Surely the number of tests carried out needs to be taken into account?

the more tests done the more positive results there will be, how many of those positives are actually carrying the virus in sufficient quantity to spread it to another person or exhibit symptoms in the carrier is another question. what other disease do people showing no symptoms get tested for to see if they can get a fortnights paid holiday from work.

only sure fire thing is most of the statistics quoted are open to other interpretations

what sort of joke is deaths within 28 days of a pos test? coupled with financial reward for putting covid on death certificates
cases in hospital ....large percentage went in for something else, tested positive on the routine test. showing no covid symptoms and receiving no covid related treatment.


only figures that actually reveal anything are the all causes mortality. available online on government websites for current and previous years.

merry xmas

 

[Trotter]

How many in hospital after being knocked down by a bus, after walking into the road to avoid getting nearer than 2mts (about 20 ft in English money) of someone coming the other way.
Flippant? Not really. I’ve saw a near miss during the lockdown. Bloody stupid.

 

[colinm]

Well we agree that Spain is safer than the UK. That was my point.
What I have seen is that Spain is at about 700 relative to the UK at about 1300 reference John Hopkins university. World in data . More like 55%.
Daily cases in both countries are accelerating very fast.

It's hardly any differance, yesterday UK announced 106,000 new cases, Spain 60,000, take into account Spain has roughly 2/3 of population and you come back to nearly the same number per head of population. You might feel safer in Spain, reality is you are at the same risk.

 

[DnK]

It's hardly any differance, ......................Spain has roughly 2/3 of population and you come back to nearly the same number per head of population. You might feel safer in Spain, reality is you are at the same risk.

Hmmm! Spain is considerably larger country than UK so the smaller population is greater dispersed and therefore the risk of contact with Covid must be less. If you stay away from the densely populated Cities the risk must be more reduced.

 

[rugbyken]

the problem with stats is they are all relative if we don’t have all they’re pointless ie in uk 1968 population of 55m hong kong flu killed 60,000 people more than 1% of population , 2021 population 68.5m total deaths all causes 607,000 in 2018 pre covid there were 560,00 deaths

 

[Trotter]

It comes down to this for me.
Do I live with Covid, or die of boredom ?

 

[regnarts]

In response to Trotter's comment, "It looks like Covid of one strain or another is going to be with us for the foreseeable future. I reckon we can take that as a given".

Until these greedy Pharmacutical Companies realease the Patents on there drugs we will never be free of large scale Covid, spurious outbreaks of different variants will pop up in different parts of the world where vaccines are not given spreading quickly as just proven with South Africas Omicron.
WHO need to put further pressure on these companies to reduce this risk & help us all get back to some normality.
My winter trip to Spain is now on hold due to the French restrictions, but awaiting easing then off like a shot
Stay safe all & enjoy the festive period with caution, I will be out doing so where I can but using common sense in the bars & restaurants.

 

[TeamRienza]

The two figures I put my ‘faith’ in, are, the number of tests per million of population and excess deaths. I don’t have the excess death figures to hand, but if you look at the link

Coronavirus Update (Live): 16,891,150 Cases and 663,335 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

It is noticeable that the uk has conducted over four times as many tests as Spain, yet the uk does not have four times as many cases. It is also very noticeable that each day figures for France and Germany in particular fluctuate wildly (as do reported deaths) but the uk figures remained reasonably similar or slowly rising until Omicron impacted. This tells me in my simplistic opinion that some countries figures are not as accurate as they should be.

I take what you mean about feeling safer in Spain. We certainly felt safer in France during our September/October trip. However I put this down (in part) to the general feeling of being safer when on holiday away from Home. Physically we did interact with very few people compared to home and the greater use (seemed like 100%) of masks in supermarche’s

Davy

 

[colinm]

Hmmm! Spain is considerably larger country than UK so the smaller population is greater dispersed and therefore the risk of contact with Covid must be less. If you stay away from the densely populated Cities the risk must be more reduced.

If you are out in the countryside then this may be true, but once you go to a shop, bar, or restaurant, you are just as likely to interact with people carrying covid. From a personal perspective, we live in the countryside, the only time we have to interact with other people is when we are shopping, for us there is zero differance.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

On a more sober - and real life - note, I have just heard this morning that a nurseryman I know well (just a couple of miles down the road from us) has died from covid yesterday morning at 3am. Don't know what strain it was, or if he was vaccinated. He was in his early 50s I think, leaves his mum, wife and kids, all involved in running the nursery.

This is a reality happening right on the doorstep and not some remote 'statistic' quoted on the daily blurb.

@jeanette - you will know exactly who I mean, Alan Herbert
A friend of mine was at their nursery laughing and joking with him as usual only 3 weeks ago.

Trotter is spot on, just be as careful as you can be out there.

 

[Derekoak]

It's hardly any differance, yesterday UK announced 106,000 new cases, Spain 60,000, take into account Spain has roughly 2/3 of population and you come back to nearly the same number per head of population. You might feel safer in Spain, reality is you are at the same risk.

I will leave you to debate your data wherever it comes from with my reference John Hopkins University. The point is the same. Spain has less cases per million population than the UK so I am somewhat safer in Spanish supermarket than a UK one. Even before the extra point that the uk population wears masks less than the Spanish do.
We wear ffp3 masks in supermarkets. The best there are, that protect the wearer too. I do not know why more people do not do the same.

 

[colinm]

I will leave you to debate your data wherever it comes from

These are the official figures of covid infections, they should be the same ones.
For 22nd December Spain had 60,041 new cases. https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesiona...Cov/documentos/Actualizacion_528_COVID-19.pdf
Uk had 106,166 new cases https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

These are summarised at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

These add up to very nearly the same rate per head of population, if John Hopkins University has different figures then they are wrong or your interpretation of them is wrong.

 

[Derekoak]

Taking your figures Spain has 88.6% of the cases per million as the uk. That is less. That is all I said. There is a spread of data on the internet. All I can find says Spain has less cases. You can argue the exact number. I shall leave you to it.