Fiat Ducato engine oil

[Channa]

Interesting question that would ultimately require a legal test case it raises a few questions

Is oil a part or consumable ?

Is it a restrictive trading practice ?

Is it an unfair term to a contract ?

Does the oil provide any unique benefit to function of the engine that others of identical grade don't ?

The change in consumer law that members are quoting are changes to the block exemption rule which as Fazerloz correctly states allows others to service and repair to maintain warranty however the provisio is manufacturers genuine parts are used which take us back full circle and that is the properties and status of the given oil

I think only a court would settle it the amount of effort and financial risk that would involve probably explains why it has never been challenged

Channa

 

[Wooie1958]

In my simple little mind the last thing you want to have to do when your brand new umpteen thousand pound pride & joy develops a fault or god forbid an engine failure is for you to go through the process of having to take the dealer / manufacturer to court.

The OP was talking about a 1 litre bottle of top up oil for his brand new motorhome which everyone knows in the first few thousand miles can use a little oil.

If the oil is bought from a Fiat dealer who also sells commercials and the paperwork confirms that then surely there is absolutely no argument to be had.

 

[trevskoda]

Get a grip you lot,how they gona tell and is a squillion in one chance,no money out of dealers pocket anyway as maker refunds goods or parts on clams.:hammer:

 

[Jeff G]

Get a grip you lot,how they gona tell and is a squillion in one chance,no money out of dealers pocket anyway as maker refunds goods or parts on clams.:hammer:

Because the non Selenia comes in pink with black polka dots so when the Fiat tech(lol),pulls the dipstick,he's gonna know.

 

[harrow]

I can remember talking to an engine manufacturer who recommended quite an old specification of oil.

I said why don't you use more modern stuff ?

The manufacturer said the first thing they do with any engine failure claim is to test and confirm their specified oil has been used, use anything else and they refused to payout on the claim.

 

[witzend]

If there was a claim and it was knocked back by Fiat would it be worth the time and effort of fighting Fiat for the sake of buying Fiat recommended oil.

If Fiat said that Castrol oil wasn't any good or Coopers or Wix's filters where no good you'd not be the only one taking Fiat to the courts

 

[Fazerloz]

Get a grip you lot,how they gona tell and is a squillion in one chance,no money out of dealers pocket anyway as maker refunds goods or parts on clams.:hammer:

With a simple oil sample test kit from such as these. The Oil Lab - Oil and fuel testing service - The Oil Lab others are available and the manufacturers will certainly have better. Do you really believe a manufacturer will ok a new engine without checking. If so when you lay out for a brand new vehicle do as you wish its your money, but I certainly wouldn't advise others to do so.

 

[trevskoda]

I can remember talking to an engine manufacturer who recommended quite an old specification of oil.

I said why don't you use more modern stuff ?

The manufacturer said the first thing they do with any engine failure claim is to test and confirm their specified oil has been used, use anything else and they refused to payout on the claim.

Old hat,and its the dealer doing the warranty work not the makers,engine out new one in,simple as that.

 

[Fazerloz]

If Fiat said that Castrol oil wasn't any good or Coopers or Wix's filters where no good you'd not be the only one taking Fiat to the courts

They don't have to say its no good. All they have to say is you have to use ours if you want to claim on warranty. Its up to you to meet the terms and conditions.

 

[Fazerloz]

A quick copy and paste from The Car Expert. New car warranty and servicing requirements | #AskTCE | The Car Expert
Note lubricants.
[h=4]New car warranty and servicing – your rights and responsibilities[/h]As a car owner, you have the right to take your car to any licenced garage or mechanic for servicing, but you must ensure that the servicing is carried out exactly as per the manufacturer’s servicing schedule. This means servicing must be undertaken on time and must use any genuine parts or lubricants specified by the manufacturer.

 

[Wooie1958]

F.F.S. we are talking about a 1 litre top up of oil and not buying shagging shares in the company :mad2:

I give up and on that note ............................ i`m out :wave:

 

[alcam]

F.F.S. we are talking about a 1 litre top up of oil and not buying shagging shares in the company :mad2:

I give up and on that note ............................ i`m out :wave:

Before you go could you let me know where I can acquire some of these 'shagging shares' ?

 

[Obanboy666]

I bought a new Swift c class in 2013 and the first thing I did was buy a litre of the oil recommended in the hand book.
It cost bugger all compared to the cost to the ‘crap’ Swift motorhome so a no brainer imho. As it happened I never actually used the oil, its somewhere in the garage.
Just buy the recommended oil then theres no get out for Fiat in the event you have an engine warranty claim.

 

[trevskoda]

I bought a new Swift c class in 2013 and the first thing I did was buy a litre of the oil recommended in the hand book.
It cost bugger all compared to the cost to the ‘crap’ Swift motorhome so a no brainer imho. As it happened I never actually used the oil, its somewhere in the garage.
Just buy the recommended oil then theres no get out for Fiat in the event you have an engine warranty claim.

Billy sugger:wave:

 

[Deneb]

If there was a warranty claim for engine failiure don't you think they would do oil/debris analysis to find out the cause and determine if the correct oil was used. BMW knock back claims for using non BMW screen wash. If there was a claim and it was knocked back by Fiat would it be worth the time and effort of fighting Fiat for the sake of buying Fiat recommended oil. Once out of warranty then put whatever you want in.

You are confusing marketing advertising in the vehicle handbook with the manufacturer's specifications. Fiat recommend Selenia oils in the owner's handbook because they have a commercial and marketing arrangement with Petronas and they would be very happy for you to maximise their profits. The information published in their workshop and technical information (as used by the Fiat Professional dealer network) specifies that an ACEA C2 multigrade oil of SAE 0W30 and meeting or exceeding Fiat specification 9.55535-DS1 (for the Euro 6 engines) must be used. That is the only requirement.

There are plenty of oils from other manufacturers such as Shell, Fuchs, Titan etc, that comply with those requirements and are arguably better oils than Selenia, with the added bonus of being readily available in the UK at lower cost.

Petronas oils are very expensive for what they are because there is no distribution channel in the UK other than through Fiats own dealer network. Fiat dealers will happily sell you Petronas oils if you demand them, but many will not actually be putting them in your vehicle during a service. The oil in their workshop may be a compatible oil meeting Fiats requirements, bulk bought in drums or 1000 litre bulk containers at a fraction of the price, drawn off in the exact quantity required to change the oil in your van, but charged to you at per litre retail prices.

In the event of a warranty claim, Fiat might be able to confirm the viscocity of the oil in your sump should they feel the need to check. They will almost certainly not be able to establish the manufacturer, but even if they could there is absolutely nothing in their own technical specifications that requires the use of only Petronas Selenia oil.

I had my van serviced last year at a Fiat Pro dealer. They used an engine oil that met the required specification, and one that I was completely happy with, but it was not Selenia.

 

[harrow]

Petronas oils are very expensive for what they are because there is no distribution channel in the UK other than through Fiats own dealer network. Fiat dealers will happily sell you Petronas oils if you demand them, but many will not actually be putting them in your vehicle during a service. The oil in their workshop may be a compatible oil meeting Fiats requirements, bulk bought in drums or 1000 litre bulk containers at a fraction of the price, drawn off in the exact quantity required to change the oil in your van, but charged to you at per litre retail prices..

Euro car parts,

Petronas Syntium 7000 E- 0W-30 - 4ltr | Euro Car Parts

use USE CODE: WEEKEND37

 

[harrow]

And obviously carparts4less

 

[Deneb]

Euro car parts,

Petronas Syntium 7000 E- 0W-30 - 4ltr | Euro Car Parts

use USE CODE: WEEKEND37

Doesn't meet the required Fiat specification for either Euro 5 or 6 Ducatos according to Petronas spec sheets. The correct Petronas oils for Ducatos are Selenia WR-PE 5W30 (Euro 5/5+) and WR-Forward 0W30 (Euro 5+/Euro 6). ECP don't appear to stock either WR-Forward or WR-PE, but in any case you can get other oils that do meet correct Fiat specifications for less. Shell Helix Ultra ECT £39.95 for 5 litres from Opie Oils, for instance.

 

[Mobilvetta]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I seemed to have opened a can of worms, I am going to play it safe and go by the book and get the recommended oil. I know what these manufacturers are like when it comes to expensive warranty claims, they do there best to wiggle out of them, only the other year my Jaguar needed a part replacing and Jaguar only wanted to contribute 50%, luckily I sent notice to the Jaguar retailer were I bought the car from stating that my contract is with them and any contribution I have to pay to get the part replaced will be paid under duress and will form part of my claim against them, they backed down in this case and between the retailer and the manufacturers paid for the part and labour costs, £2800.00

I have noticed you could buy the correct oil online, but unfortunately I need it for Wednesday when we set off on our travels, so didn't want to risk it.

I have rung the Fiat dealer at Preston, they have it on one litres, I also rung Fiat professional garage at Walton Summit, they sell a two litre tin cheaper that the Fiat main dealer wanted for 1 litre, I have to go over to Colne on Tuesday, so will go via Walton Summit to get some, I haven't used any oil as yet but will check it again when I arrive at Portsmouth.

 

[Channa]

You are confusing marketing advertising in the vehicle handbook with the manufacturer's specifications. Fiat recommend Selenia oils in the owner's handbook because they have a commercial and marketing arrangement with Petronas and they would be very happy for you to maximise their profits. The information published in their workshop and technical information (as used by the Fiat Professional dealer network) specifies that an ACEA C2 multigrade oil of SAE 0W30 and meeting or exceeding Fiat specification 9.55535-DS1 (for the Euro 6 engines) must be used. That is the only requirement.

There are plenty of oils from other manufacturers such as Shell, Fuchs, Titan etc, that comply with those requirements and are arguably better oils than Selenia, with the added bonus of being readily available in the UK at lower cost.

Petronas oils are very expensive for what they are because there is no distribution channel in the UK other than through Fiats own dealer network. Fiat dealers will happily sell you Petronas oils if you demand them, but many will not actually be putting them in your vehicle during a service. The oil in their workshop may be a compatible oil meeting Fiats requirements, bulk bought in drums or 1000 litre bulk containers at a fraction of the price, drawn off in the exact quantity required to change the oil in your van, but charged to you at per litre retail prices.

In the event of a warranty claim, Fiat might be able to confirm the viscocity of the oil in your sump should they feel the need to check. They will almost certainly not be able to establish the manufacturer, but even if they could there is absolutely nothing in their own technical specifications that requires the use of only Petronas Selenia oil.

I had my van serviced last year at a Fiat Pro dealer. They used an engine oil that met the required specification, and one that I was completely happy with, but it was not Selenia.

As someone that has 12 years experience working for Fiat and others you write an excellent description of the situation, the part I have highlighted is not strictly speaking true the margins on manufacturer supplied consumables is poor compared to what we can buy in bulk, I seem to remember we used individual manufacturer packs on servicing some cars Croma turbos rings a bell, other than that cars serviced with oils sourced in bulk,

As for warranty claims in respect of a destroyed engine John Marston the ATM would take samples back to Uxbridge and have them analysed ( as much for Fiats benefit than anyone else) and I don't honestly remember a warranty claim revoked. for the money involverd it is far cheaper for Fiat to honour the claim a couple of thousand quid is pocket money to them in the grand scale of things
Channa