Extra Leisure Battery or Solar Panels Off Grid?

[RoaminRog]

I’ve just finished fitting 3 x 100A lifepo4 batteries, to replace 3 x 90A gels. Can’t remember the solar specs but it is a domestic panel, rather than 12v.
Waiting to get to Goosenargh now, to see how we get on.
Sat in the bus, the other evening, and switched on everything I could find, eg lights, tv, fridge, heating and let it all chug away nicely for a couple of hours, and couldn’t get the battery app to read less than 98% which was soon replenished the following morning, so a five day meet at this time of the year will be a good indicator of things to come.

 

[Trotter]

I’ve just finished fitting 3 x 100A lifepo4 batteries, to replace 3 x 90A gels. Can’t remember the solar specs but it is a domestic panel, rather than 12v.
Waiting to get to Goosenargh now, to see how we get on.
Sat in the bus, the other evening, and switched on everything I could find, eg lights, tv, fridge, heating and let it all chug away nicely for a couple of hours, and couldn’t get the battery app to read less than 98% which was soon replenished the following morning, so a five day meet at this time of the year will be a good indicator of things to come.

You’ve more than trebled your storage now Rog. I’d be interested in how things work out for you.

 

[Wrightpm]

Hi PHIL M, our setup is a mere 100w solar panel and two lead acid batteries with very basic solar controller. Our demand is pump, LED lights TV (4 hrs) and gas heater fan. We tend to move every 3 days or so - maybe an hours drive. We camp more in summer but also use in winter months. We have never been short of 12V power. It sounds very like your proposal of 200W solar and two AGM batteries would be better than we have and therefore be completely adequate for you.
That said there is some very good advice already posted, in particular with planning panel layout and future proofing.
Starting with the 200W panel and one battery might even be enough if like us you tend to move every few days. Best wishes, let us know what you decide, Peter.

 

[trevskoda]

@Phil M - I may have missed it but you mention "gas heating" - is it the sort that has a "fire" and you just need 12v to fire it up, or is it a blown air system like I have in my Adria? Mine uses quite a bit of 12v power for the fan.

I have a 200w solar panel on the roof and just one 110 Aph lead acid battery, and I can usually stop in one place for up to 4 nights in winter, 5 if it isn't sub zero temps.

No, one from a caravan requires no electric, it has a peso bush button sparker to start it, no fan etc so no lecy required, exhaust and fresh are in is from outside the van, thus no danger from monoxide poison.

 

[Caz]

No, one from a caravan requires no electric, it has a peso bush button sparker to start it, no fan etc so no lecy required,

Beg to differ Trev but over my many years of caravanning and motorhoming I have had this type of gas fire in a number of vehicles and they have had 3 different ways of igniting - piezo, as you say, but also some had a little battery and some were wired in to the 12v system.

 

[RoaminRog]

You’ve more than trebled your storage now Rog. I’d be interested in how things work out for you.

So will I Del!

 

[exwindsurfer]

I’ve just finished fitting 3 x 100A lifepo4 batteries, to replace 3 x 90A gels. Can’t remember the solar specs but it is a domestic panel, rather than 12v.
Waiting to get to Goosenargh now, to see how we get on.
Sat in the bus, the other evening, and switched on everything I could find, eg lights, tv, fridge, heating and let it all chug away nicely for a couple of hours, and couldn’t get the battery app to read less than 98% which was soon replenished the following morning, so a five day meet at this time of the year will be a good indicator of things to come.

Nice to see you have changed over to lithium Rog you wont regret it and think of the weight saving .

 

[exwindsurfer]

Topped my batteries of today nicely .

 

[barryd]

No, one from a caravan requires no electric, it has a peso bush button sparker to start it, no fan etc so no lecy required, exhaust and fresh are in is from outside the van, thus no danger from monoxide poison.View attachment 114086View attachment 114087View attachment 114088View attachment 114089

Our fire doesn't use any electric. The blown air is separate and you can switch it on or off if you want. Never use it so the fire itself needs no electric. It is however one of the things I hate the most about our van. Whilst its blooming effective its a PIA to light. I wish it was electric ignition but its this turny plungy thing and its always been temperamental. I hate the idea of heating that uses battery power though because chances are when you need heating there wont be much solar.

 

[Aethelric]

Beg to differ Trev but over my many years of caravanning and motorhoming I have had this type of gas fire in a number of vehicles and they have had 3 different ways of igniting - piezo, as you say, but also some had a little battery and some were wired in to the 12v system.

Mine has a little battery. It has a fan which can be used, but we find that convection works fine so no electricity required. But if we do use the fan it heats up the loo/shower very quickly. It works off gas, but also from a hookup.

https://2045.co.uk/2018/03/22/heating/

 

[molly 2]

If you doubled your battery , no matter what type , you would double your off grid time without solar ,any solar harvest in winter is a bonus , folding portable solar panels are a good option as you can point and angle towards the sun ,it's what ever suits you and your pockets best,

 

[wildebus]

No, one from a caravan requires no electric, it has a peso bush button sparker to start it, no fan etc so no lecy required, exhaust and fresh are in is from outside the van, thus no danger from monoxide poison.View attachment 114086

Beg to differ Trev but over my many years of caravanning and motorhoming I have had this type of gas fire in a number of vehicles and they have had 3 different ways of igniting - piezo, as you say, but also some had a little battery and some were wired in to the 12v system.

Mine has a little battery. It has a fan which can be used, but we find that convection works fine so no electricity required. But if we do use the fan it heats up the loo/shower very quickly. It works off gas, but also from a hookup.

https://2045.co.uk/2018/03/22/heating/

Ref these heaters, they are of course the Truma Gas Heater.
Truma did a revision at some time and instead of a mechanical sparker, they fitted, as Caz said, an electric sparker driven by a 1.5V AA Battery which is at the bottom of the heater. Easy for someone not be be aware of that and leave the battery until dead and wonder why the fire won't light (or worse, leave it fitted and it leaks and mucks up the contacts). Good idea to remove the battery if the van is in storage over the winter and maybe also in the summer if the heater won't be used for months? Not aware of these having a sparker wired from the Leisure Battery, but I can see it could easily be possible just like the Gas Hobs and Water Heaters.

The 12V fan running off the Leisure Battery is an optional extra so depends which manufacturer bought the heaters in to if they specified this option. Handy option - can use it on Auto so it speed varies depending on the temp, or Manual where you choose the speed yourself.

And again the AC Electric Heater feature - The Truma Ultraheat - is an optional extra, with the power selectable between 500W, 1000W and 2000W.

 

[trevskoda]

Beg to differ Trev but over my many years of caravanning and motorhoming I have had this type of gas fire in a number of vehicles and they have had 3 different ways of igniting - piezo, as you say, but also some had a little battery and some were wired in to the 12v system.

Never seen the later ones, I have a few of the older units here from caravans i scrapped, hope you get sorted.

 

[Phil M]

@Phil M - I may have missed it but you mention "gas heating" - is it the sort that has a "fire" and you just need 12v to fire it up, or is it a blown air system like I have in my Adria? Mine uses quite a bit of 12v power for the fan.

I have a 200w solar panel on the roof and just one 110 Aph lead acid battery, and I can usually stop in one place for up to 4 nights in winter, 5 if it isn't sub zero temps.

Just seen this Sorry…it’s a blown air system. I’m still not sure which way to go, and will use the van a bit before I decide. If it isn’t difficult I may try to install a solar panel myself- but don’t really want to drill the roof, so may glue the cable and try and feed it through the aerial slot. Useful comments, thanks Caz

 

[Phil M]

Solar in winter in Britain is pretty ornamental. It tends to be of most benefit in reducing the noise of the rain hitting the roof.
Solar in Summer is a different proposition and is always worth having unless your preferred camping pattern is driving long distances every day or you use campsites with hookup every day. (nothing wrong with doing either if that is what you want to do).
If you are going to fit solar, you may as well pack the roof with as much as you can fit on from the start. The cabling is the same; the controller is going to be very similar so the only notable extra is the extra panel/s themselves, but once done, you can forget them.

Batteries are less of a no-brainer, but if you think you may need a pair rather than one, you may as well bit the bullet and avoid doing one and then revisiting some time in the future and doing all that work again to install. Fit once and enjoy (unless you like tinkering of course, and again nothing wrong with that )

Thanks for that….being non technical I will have to pay for any jobs done, but fitting solar can’t be all that difficult. Being a one piece monocoque van, I don’t want to drill the roof especially…someone did say to glue/ tape the cables on the roof and use the aerial hole for cabling. I’ll have to research costs….
At the end of the day it’s down how we use the vans…given I can’t see myself being away from EHU or a longish drive for more than 5 days at a time, and with careful usage, I think batteries would do it….or more expensively, a large solar panel….anyway, I’m used to cycle touring and cold dark nights in a small tent, so this is luxury, with or without power!

 

[Phil M]

TV? Not in my van. I get all the TV I need off of my Chromebook. And with a VPN, the world is there waiting for you. ( Other devices are available). One less thing to carry.

Yep…i- Pad….thanks

 

[Phil M]

Not mine! I spent ages about a decade ago searching for low wattage TVs. I ended up with an Akura which draws just 14 watts which I think is about 1.1 amps. couple more with USB speakers in. Its about the same power as a smart phone on a standard charger. When we were down in Devon in the summer even with our small set up we were running laptops, phones and the TV as much as we wanted. I dont think I ever saw the battery go below 12.6 even when we were stationary in Lee Bay for three weeks.

What is your set up as a matter of interest ? ( I mean solar/ batteries/ size etc)

 

[Phil M]

Hi PHIL M, our setup is a mere 100w solar panel and two lead acid batteries with very basic solar controller. Our demand is pump, LED lights TV (4 hrs) and gas heater fan. We tend to move every 3 days or so - maybe an hours drive. We camp more in summer but also use in winter months. We have never been short of 12V power. It sounds very like your proposal of 200W solar and two AGM batteries would be better than we have and therefore be completely adequate for you.
That said there is some very good advice already posted, in particular with planning panel layout and future proofing.
Starting with the 200W panel and one battery might even be enough if like us you tend to move every few days. Best wishes, let us know what you decide, Peter.

I will thanks - if I can find the thread again!

 

[barryd]

What is your set up as a matter of interest ? ( I mean solar/ batteries/ size etc)

Just a single panel on the roof (cant remember if its 100w or 120w) and this MPPT controller.

MPP Solar Inc » PCM2012/3012 Series

www.mppsolar.com

The controller is a fair few years old now or at least mine is and I remember there was quite a buzz about them when they came out and lots of us bought them. Its brilliant as it shows you the battery status, whats going in and if you wire sockets off it then it shows you whats going out.

I'm hopeless and DIY practical stuff also so I bought all the gear myself, panel, corner fixers, solar cable and the MPPT Controller and got my Mr Motorhome Fixer guy to fit it all. I think he did use an existing hole to run the cables through. Satellite Dome I think. Took him two or three hours for which he charged me about £90 I think. All in was about £300. I wouldnt be without it now. Absolutely essential for us as we often spend weeks off grid in the same spot in Spring and summer. Pretty useless in winter really.

 

[wildebus]

Thanks for that….being non technical I will have to pay for any jobs done, but fitting solar can’t be all that difficult. Being a one piece monocoque van, I don’t want to drill the roof especially…someone did say to glue/ tape the cables on the roof and use the aerial hole for cabling. I’ll have to research costs….
At the end of the day it’s down how we use the vans…given I can’t see myself being away from EHU or a longish drive for more than 5 days at a time, and with careful usage, I think batteries would do it….or more expensively, a large solar panel….anyway, I’m used to cycle touring and cold dark nights in a small tent, so this is luxury, with or without power!

How you can run the cables depends on the individual van of course, but as an example of a no-holes install, When I fitted a pair of panels on my VW T5, I didn't make any holes in the roof at all to either fit the panels or run the cables (and the panels were not stuck down but mechanically secured). Ran the cable along the gutter, down the D Pillar and into the cover for the rear light.

(from: https://www.wildebus.com/stealth-solar-installation/ )
I did make extra holes for the cables, but could also if just 1 pair sent them into the opening for the rear light cluster