Ethanol Fuel Cells

[Canalsman]

Methanol Fuel Cells

I am considering equipping my 'van with one of these specifically to supplement solar panels in Winter.

Has anyone had such fitted to their 'van?

I am interested in firsthand experience, and advice. In particular do you have to use methanol that's 'approved' by the fuel cell manufacturer, or are there cheaper sources of equivalent supply?

 

[Deleted member 5816]

Have you read the Clive Mott article on fuel cells


Clive`s


Alf

I am considering equipping my 'van with one of these specifically to supplement solar panels in Winter.

Has anyone had such fitted to their 'van?

I am interested in firsthand experience, and advice. In particular do you have to use methanol that's 'approved' by the fuel cell manufacturer, or are there cheaper sources of equivalent supply?

 

[Admin]

I know 10para has one fitted in his van because I did discuss the delivery of the fuel by post with him.

 

[izwozral]

I have 25 litres of methanol for £25 if interested.

 

[st3v3]

A nice idea, but NOT including the fuel, you could have one day in every 3 on a campsite to recharge for 5 years for the purchase price.

Crazy money!

 

[maingate]

WC Member John Thompson has something similar fitted to his van.

 

[Deleted member 3011]

10 years and market penetration for motorhomes is close to zero. That example quoted 50Ah per day at a cost of 3 pound a day. Very limited life of the fuel cell before overhaul and having to buy fuel all the time.

 

[Admin]

I have recently done a bit of research along these lines for my own van. In the end I decided that an onboard automatic generator was the best option.

The big difference I suppose is that the fuel cell is almost silent and causes no annoyance to other campers.

Key Points:

• The generator I looked at has a noise level of 51db at 7m even at full power output, the fuel cell is 25db.
• It uses LPG for fuel, so it has lower running costs than a petrol generator. (and the fuel cell)
• The LPG consumption is 270 grams of gas per hour. (0.55 Ltr)
• It charges the batteries directly at 20A, there is no mains output.
• The generator starts automatically when the battery voltage reaches 11.9v and cuts out at 14.5v (you can disable this at night)
• The generator mounts under the vehicle and is only 25cm high.
• Operation temperatures are from -25c to +50c.

This is not a cheap option and the generator costs around £2,100 plus installation.

Now a bit of cost comparison...

	Fuel Cell	Generator
Cost of unit	£4998	£2100
Cost per kWh (fuel)	£3.94	£1.26
Watt hours per day	2520	5760

This is based on the efoy comfort 210 and the Telair TG480

Fuel Cell Systems Ltd

Telair ECOEnergy TG480 Generator - ECOENERGYTG480 Buy SECURELY Online

 

[Penny13]

Only for the insanely rich :lol-049:

 

[Steve121]

I have recently done a bit of research along these lines for my own van. In the end I decided that an onboard automatic generator was the best option.

The big difference I suppose is that the fuel cell is almost silent and causes no annoyance to other campers.

Key Points:

• The generator I looked at has a noise level of 51db at 7m even at full power output, the fuel cell is 25db.
• It uses LPG for fuel, so it has lower running costs than a petrol generator. (and the fuel cell)
• The LPG consumption is 270 grams of gas per hour. (0.55 Ltr)
• It charges the batteries directly at 20A, there is no mains output.
• The generator starts automatically when the battery voltage reaches 11.9v and cuts out at 14.5v (you can disable this at night)
• The generator mounts under the vehicle and is only 25cm high.
• Operation temperatures are from -25c to +50c.

This is not a cheap option and the generator costs around £2,100 plus installation.

Now a bit of cost comparison...

	Fuel Cell	Generator
Cost of unit	£4998	£2100
Cost per kWh (fuel)	£3.94	£1.26
Watt hours per day	2520	5760

This is based on the efoy comfort 210 and the Telair TG480

Fuel Cell Systems Ltd

Telair ECOEnergy TG480 Generator - ECOENERGYTG480 Buy SECURELY Online

The generator option produces approximately 8.7 times more noise, assuming the dB figures are accurate and comparable.

 

[Admin]

The generator option produces approximately 8.7 times more noise, assuming the dB figures are accurate and comparable.

Yes, but it is still quiet for a generator. The sound is actually muffled so that it is a low tone rather than a raspy engine noise. I would not suggest that people annoy others with their generators.

Most of the time that I am wilding there are no other vans with me, it is only at meets that this would be a problem.

 

[jagmanx]

How about this ?

The generator option produces approximately 8.7 times more noise, assuming the dB figures are accurate and comparable.

Kipor IG1000 Generator - CT1870P Buy SECURELY Online

Or similar

Much much cheaper and maybe would suffice..or get a more powerful model

Obviously lacks the convenience of a built in model but would also run low power 240V items.

 

[st3v3]

The generator option produces approximately 8.7 times more noise, assuming the dB figures are accurate and comparable.

Quite right, but some examples:

Office 50dB
Conversation 60dB

So, the genny is 3 times quieter than a conversation. I'm not sure I would want to sleep next to it, but I think that's very good.

 

[Fazerloz]

Your thread title says Ethanol then you go on to say Methanol both are available as fuel cells I think, but would not be compatible. Methanol more toxic than Ethanol.Difference Between Ethanol and Methanol | Difference Between | Ethanol vs Methanol
I remove the ethanol from petrol that I use in my classic bikes. It does cause damage to older vehicles.

 

[Obanboy666]

I looked at them but ended up with a Honda EU20i that I I also use down the allotment and on a shoot I help run.
Away to Skye and beyond Tuesday after my hospital appointment and it will be going with me. I will only use it when and if required which will be for a few hours on an evening. 100% reliable over 2 years and used at least 3 times a week.
No smell from petrol in the motorhome, I have purpose made storage bags for both the Genny and petrol can. I use it in the rain, purpose made frame / cover.
Would highly recommend a Heonda to anyone.

 

[listerdiesel]

We've looked at various schemes over the years and two vehicle/trailer builds.

Solar has to be the way to go, on initial purchase cost, on running costs, on noise.

You do need it to be installed from day one and you also need plenty of it, especially in UK and Europe in the winter.

Given a decent sized battery, MPPT controller and at least 200W to 300W of solar, you should be good for all but very extreme weather, so a chunky mains charger and a small Chinese generator for those occasions where you need a charge but the weather stops the solar working. Or pop into a CL or site for an overnight top up.

The Efoy units are a good idea but way too expensive, there's a lot of profit in them!

For £500 you can buy two decent panels, a good MPPT controller, a good generator and new batteries.

Peter

 

[WildThingsKev]

I've seen a standard genny fitted in a soundproofed aluminium box mounted on the back of the van which was very quiet.

 

[st3v3]

at about £6 an hour to run

Ouch! What's the plan long term?

 

[Canalsman]

Your thread title says Ethanol then you go on to say Methanol both are available as fuel cells I think, but would not be compatible. Methanol more toxic than Ethanol.Difference Between Ethanol and Methanol | Difference Between | Ethanol vs Methanol
I remove the ethanol from petrol that I use in my classic bikes. It does cause damage to older vehicles.

Bloody tablets - they always seem to think THEY know what I mean!

 

[Canalsman]

Have you read the Clive Mott article on fuel cells


Clive`s


Alf

Thank you - that's a really useful link and has answered many of my questions.

In particular the fuel quality is critical to ensure maximum life of the fuel cell. And the life expectancy seems good and getting better.