Emerging from the dark side and going Victron. Here's why.

[number14]

My 2018 PVC which I bought at 2yo, was factory fitted with a 120W solar panel and an NDS controller. A feature I liked about the NDS was the feed to the starter battery (SB) which kicked in once the leisure batts were charged and, also, it always worked reliably even after I renewed the LBs and disconnected everything.

Last year, after two cloudy days off grid and binge watching the Olympics we managed to trigger the low voltage alarm, so I decided a solar upgrade would be in order. The controller also needed uprating to match so I went with a newer NDS which has a similar feed to the SB.

Bad move!

Right from the off the NDS didn't work as described in the manual. The status LEDs displayed incorrectly and the voltage to the SB was up to 16.5V.
I exchanged emails with the supplier, Roadpro, who, to be fair, were helpful. They suggested a reset and sent the following instructions:-

Pop something over the panel to stop any power from being made.
Pull solar cables out (neg first) then + make sure it can't touch anything
Pull battery cables out (neg first) + make sure it can't touch anything
Wait for a few minutes
Put the battery cable back in neg first then +.
Put solar in neg first then Positives.
Check all is ok i.e no stray strands
uncover solar panel
It must be done in this order or it may destroy the charge controller.

The reset didn't work and Roadpro eventually sent a replacement (thanks Roadpro) which I fitted as per the above connection sequence.
That worked but my annoyance is twofold.
1. If the connection sequence is so critical, why is there no mention of it in the instruction manual? How is your average competant DIY installer supposed to know?
2. It's an appalling design anyway for a consumer item if the connection sequence is so critical.

That was all last September. Fast forward to last week.
I had decided a while ago that the wiring on and around the batteries was rather messy and needed tidying. I pulled the fuses from the solar feed, controller output and battery distribution panel connection, tidied up and reconnected. No prizes for guessing what's happened to the controller.

So, I've cut my losses and a Victron Smart controller and Smart shunt arrive tomorrow. The Victron installation instructions clearly state the order in which connections must be made so I'm anticipating a happy ending. (No, not that sort of happy ending so stop giggling at the back!)

I will lose the SB feed function but I can manage that if it means I have a robust piece of kit fitted.

 

[trevskoda]

My 2018 PVC which I bought at 2yo, was factory fitted with a 120W solar panel and an NDS controller. A feature I liked about the NDS was the feed to the starter battery (SB) which kicked in once the leisure batts were charged and, also, it always worked reliably even after I renewed the LBs and disconnected everything.

Last year, after two cloudy days off grid and binge watching the Olympics we managed to trigger the low voltage alarm, so I decided a solar upgrade would be in order. The controller also needed uprating to match so I went with a newer NDS which has a similar feed to the SB.

Bad move!

Right from the off the NDS didn't work as described in the manual. The status LEDs displayed incorrectly and the voltage to the SB was up to 16.5V.
I exchanged emails with the supplier, Roadpro, who, to be fair, were helpful. They suggested a reset and sent the following instructions:-

Pop something over the panel to stop any power from being made.
Pull solar cables out (neg first) then + make sure it can't touch anything
Pull battery cables out (neg first) + make sure it can't touch anything
Wait for a few minutes
Put the battery cable back in neg first then +.
Put solar in neg first then Positives.
Check all is ok i.e no stray strands
uncover solar panel
It must be done in this order or it may destroy the charge controller.

The reset didn't work and Roadpro eventually sent a replacement (thanks Roadpro) which I fitted as per the above connection sequence.
That worked but my annoyance is twofold.
1. If the connection sequence is so critical, why is there no mention of it in the instruction manual? How is your average competant DIY installer supposed to know.
2. It's an appalling design anyway for a consumer item if the connection sequence is so critical.

That was all last September. Fast forward to last week.
I had decided a while ago that the wiring on and around the batteries was rather messy and needed tidying. I pulled the fuses from the solar feed, controller output and battery distribution panel connection, tidied up and reconnected. No prizes for guessing what's happened to the controller.

So, I've cut my losses and a Victron Smart controller and Smart shunt arrive tomorrow. The Victron installation instructions clearly state the order in which connections must be made so I'm anticipating a happy ending. (No, not that sort of happy ending so stop giggling at the back!)

I will lose the SB feed function but I can manage that if it means I have a robust piece of kit fitted.

You can fit a 200amp relay and switch linking with heavy battery cable, i have this just in case, i would have bought a votronic regulater with a 1 amp feed to starter, which i also have.

 

[marchie]

My 2018 PVC which I bought at 2yo, was factory fitted with a 120W solar panel and an NDS controller. A feature I liked about the NDS was the feed to the starter battery (SB) which kicked in once the leisure batts were charged and, also, it always worked reliably even after I renewed the LBs and disconnected everything.

Last year, after two cloudy days off grid and binge watching the Olympics we managed to trigger the low voltage alarm, so I decided a solar upgrade would be in order. The controller also needed uprating to match so I went with a newer NDS which has a similar feed to the SB.

Bad move!

Right from the off the NDS didn't work as described in the manual. The status LEDs displayed incorrectly and the voltage to the SB was up to 16.5V.
I exchanged emails with the supplier, Roadpro, who, to be fair, were helpful. They suggested a reset and sent the following instructions:-

Pop something over the panel to stop any power from being made.
Pull solar cables out (neg first) then + make sure it can't touch anything
Pull battery cables out (neg first) + make sure it can't touch anything
Wait for a few minutes
Put the battery cable back in neg first then +.
Put solar in neg first then Positives.
Check all is ok i.e no stray strands
uncover solar panel
It must be done in this order or it may destroy the charge controller.

The reset didn't work and Roadpro eventually sent a replacement (thanks Roadpro) which I fitted as per the above connection sequence.
That worked but my annoyance is twofold.
1. If the connection sequence is so critical, why is there no mention of it in the instruction manual? How is your average competant DIY installer supposed to know.
2. It's an appalling design anyway for a consumer item if the connection sequence is so critical.

That was all last September. Fast forward to last week.
I had decided a while ago that the wiring on and around the batteries was rather messy and needed tidying. I pulled the fuses from the solar feed, controller output and battery distribution panel connection, tidied up and reconnected. No prizes for guessing what's happened to the controller.

So, I've cut my losses and a Victron Smart controller and Smart shunt arrive tomorrow. The Victron installation instructions clearly state the order in which connections must be made so I'm anticipating a happy ending. (No, not that sort of happy ending so stop giggling at the back!)

I will lose the SB feed function but I can manage that if it means I have a robust piece of kit fitted.

Ablemail AMT12-2 Trickle Charger will give you SB feed, with any combination of LB/SB types, and there is an electronic override function to force the LB to feed 0.3v for 9 seconds out of every 10 seconds. Really handy for Winter morning engine starts. David @wildebus is the guru on this bit of kit - just about the best thing I have purchased

Steve

 

[Boris7]

Be worth noting RoadPro are now owned by S&G leisure. RoadPro lost their engineer sometime last year and things went a bit Pete tong.

Daniel and Mark at S&G are salt of the earth and know their stuff

 

[number14]

Be worth noting RoadPro are now owned by S&G leisure. RoadPro lost their engineer sometime last year and things went a bit Pete tong.

Daniel and Mark at S&G are salt of the earth and know their stuff

To be absolutely clear, Allan at Roadpro was very helpful during our exchange of emails. I can't blame them if the latest version of the product they sell appears to be not as robust as the earlier models.

 

[wildebus]

Ablemail AMT12-2 Trickle Charger will give you SB feed, with any combination of LB/SB types, and there is an electronic override function to force the LB to feed 0.3v for 9 seconds out of every 10 seconds. Really handy for Winter morning engine starts. David @wildebus is the guru on this bit of kit - just about the best thing I have purchased

Steve

The AMT is a excellent bit of kit without a doubt and also currently without equal

My 2018 PVC which I bought at 2yo, was factory fitted with a 120W solar panel and an NDS controller. A feature I liked about the NDS was the feed to the starter battery (SB) which kicked in once the leisure batts were charged and, also, it always worked reliably even after I renewed the LBs and disconnected everything.
......

So, I've cut my losses and a Victron Smart controller and Smart shunt arrive tomorrow. The Victron installation instructions clearly state the order in which connections must be made so I'm anticipating a happy ending. (No, not that sort of happy ending so stop giggling at the back!)

I will lose the SB feed function but I can manage that if it means I have a robust piece of kit fitted.

I am going to guess that if you have got a new Smart Controller to work with the 120W Panel, it will be either a 75/15 or a 100/20 model? If it is any of the SmartSolars upto 100/20 in size, it will have a LOAD connection.
If you do decided to get an AMT12-2, what you can also do is connect the LOAD +VE connection to the override switch of the AMT and by doing that, you can have the AMT working to its normal programme by default, but also force it into an override mode at any time you like by using the VictronConnect Smartphone App and simply turning the LOAD output on.
Very simple bit of wiring and you will have a very flexible battery maintainer install

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Bad that you didn't get instructions for how to connect a controller, but it's basic and all online.

The reason you do it that way is because the controller cannot feed the battery from the panel without knowing the state of the battery, to control the feed, it doesn't take long to do, then connect the panel, this is how they all work to my knowledge which is admittedly minimal.

 

[Boris7]

The AMT is a excellent bit of kit without a doubt and also currently without equal


I am going to guess that if you have got a new Smart Controller to work with the 120W Panel, it will be either a 75/15 or a 100/20 model? If it is any of the SmartSolars upto 100/20 in size, it will have a LOAD connection.
If you do decided to get an AMT12-2, what you can also do is connect the LOAD +VE connection to the override switch of the AMT and by doing that, you can have the AMT working to its normal programme by default, but also force it into an override mode at any time you like by using the VictronConnect Smartphone App and simply turning the LOAD output on.
Very simple bit of wiring and you will have a very flexible battery maintainer install

I’m just going to pretend I understood what he said TBH

 

[wildebus]

I’m just going to pretend I understood what he said TBH

Well .... after I posted that, I will probably do a little how-to video on my DIY Motorhome Youtube and Instagram channels to show how easy it would be to do

 

[wildebus]

Bad that you didn't get instructions for how to connect a controller, but it's basic and all online.

The reason you do it that way is because the controller cannot feed the battery from the panel without knowing the state of the battery, to control the feed, it doesn't take long to do, then connect the panel, this is how they all work to my knowledge which is admittedly minimal.

In reality, the Victron SmartSolars don't really give a damn on the order of connection. The only time it matters on them is if you intend to change the setup to use it on a 24V system.
I had a fault a while back (2-3 years?) on one of my Victron Smartsolars which meant I lost the battery +ve frequently. Obviously it stopped it charging the battery but it never stopped other operations of the controller and never caused any damage (I repaired it - dry joint - and it is still fitted and in operation today)

 

[Canalsman]

Well .... after I posted that, I will probably do a little how-to video on my DIY Motorhome Youtube... channel

Qué?

 

[TJBi]

Qué?

Hi Chris,

Are you by any chance in Barcelona?

 

[Canalsman]

Hi Chris,

Are you by any chance in Barcelona?

 

[Fisherman]

David fitted an Ablemail AMT 12-2 for me last year, excellent bit of kit.
As for victron gear, I doubt if better gear is out there.
If I had the choice I would not fit anything else.
And with recent price reductions, their gear is not that much more e pensive now.
If buying a solar controller, make sure you buy one with Bluetooth connectivity.

 

[marchie]

I’m just going to pretend I understood what he said TBH

I get up in the morning, switch on the manual override (it lights up to tell me it's on ...), and the Lithium puts 0.3v into the vehicle battery for 9 seconds in every 10 seconds, until I switch it off. The newest AMT12 has this function built into the electronics, so no need to bend over to reach the switch, just use the app on the phone. I asked David @wildebus to make my connection as idiot proof as possible, and his reply was, 'well, if you can turn a switch on ...'. Took a while, but I got there ...

Steve

 

[number14]

In reality, the Victron SmartSolars don't really give a damn on the order of connection. The only time it matters on them is if you intend to change the setup to use it on a 24V system.
I had a fault a while back (2-3 years?) on one of my Victron Smartsolars which meant I lost the battery +ve frequently. Obviously it stopped it charging the battery but it never stopped other operations of the controller and never caused any damage (I repaired it - dry joint - and it is still fitted and in operation today)

That's good to know. I was a mech eng back in the day but I used to get involved with the electronics guys in specifying various modules. We always made sure that connections could be made any which way without permanent damage. It's not an expensive thing to do and anything else is just shoddy.

 

[yeoblade]

Bad that you didn't get instructions for how to connect a controller, but it's basic and all online.

The reason you do it that way is because the controller cannot feed the battery from the panel without knowing the state of the battery, to control the feed, it doesn't take long to do, then connect the panel, this is how they all work to my knowledge which is admittedly minimal.

That's how I thought the connection order is always, though Victron seem to have made it even simpler, but I've not used their kit. The chucking a blanket over the panel though all seems a bit of a waste of time that I have never needed to do, well it's on the roof!! I'll be checking with the installer's of the big solar farm near us for that tip next time I see them.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Apart from the possibility of a connection I don't see the point of covering the panel and never have, a bit of tape on one wire seems t work for me. I expect Victron have included a failsafe gizmo in their electronics to circumnavigate connection problems, but I'm not sure if there is a real problem anyway, sure any decent controller will by default check the battery anyway many times

 

[wildebus]

Apart from the possibility of a connection I don't see the point of covering the panel and never have, a bit of tape on one wire seems t work for me. I expect Victron have included a failsafe gizmo in their electronics to circumnavigate connection problems, but I'm not sure if there is a real problem anyway, sure any decent controller will by default check the battery anyway many times

Just as an aside - and note I am not suggesting anyone do any of this - you can reverse the polarity of the connections on a Victron Controller and while it will not work, again it will not damage anything.
It is not uncommon at all to connect solar panels the wrong way round due to the way the MC4 connectors are labelled.
Also, anyone replacing a solar controller with a Victron one should be mindful of how the terminals are laid out .... Just about all Solar Controllers out there have a connection pattern of " + - + -" and if they have a load or second battery, they would be "+ - + - + -"
A Victron MPPT is laid out "+ - - +" (or "+ - - + - +"). Note the reversed + and - along the line.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Scary if you don't know or RTFM