Electrobloc EBL99 standard vs. gel charger setting.

[Sharpie]

A smaller lightweight solar panel would solve the dreaded Fiat engine battery drain for you, something like an 80 or 100 watt panel. It would also act as a leisure battery maintainer. You could even buy a folding, freestanding panel and fit a plug and socket connection to get solar power whenever convenient. I have a 100 watt panel on the roof and carry a plug-in 90 watt panel for when conditions are poor. It is rarely needed but is useful.

I still have the EBL wiring adaptor here from my last van. I swapped the LR1218 over to the new van and Allan Evans supplied me with the wiring needed to connect it to my Reich Ebox system. If it is any use to you, you can have it for the price of the postage. It will put a solar charge into your engine battery as well as the leisure batteries. It is simplicity itself to fit. I could have offered you the LR1218 as well but I am close to another Medical to retain the C1 on my licence. I don't want to spend money on an MPPT regulator for the van if I fail the Medical and have to downsize or pack in motorhoming.

That is a most kind and generous offer. I'll send you a PM (if I can work out how to do so).

My partner has been diagnosed with an illness which won't improve, medical license on annual renewal, lost her grandfather rights for bigger, but still allowed 3.5 tonnes, and towing. If/when the day comes, I'll have to do all the driving, which will be tiring for me and frustrating for her. Downsizing needn't be so bad, I think some drag around a lot of clutter, when a modest little van like mine would be more manageable for just two people, and less of a worry for all sorts of reasons.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Sharpie]

Venting

Sharpie, my globecar campscout 2012 still has original starter battery and there is a vent tube that comes out of the battery tray below the van; perhaps the tube dropped off?

Interesting. Definitely no tube ever fitted, nor any hole to poke it through. Perhaps Fiat changed their minds post my 2010 model.

My starter was still working in reasonable temperatures after nearly nine years, but obviously long past its best. It absolutely has to be in top condition for my usage in all temperatures. Failure to crank the engine in some of the places I camp would be a disaster, getting help a real struggle. I've even considered making arrangements to temporarily connect the habitation bank to the starter with jump leads, or a permanent connection with an isolator switch, just in case.

Meanwhile I'll just have to trust that my new Vartas really don't gas. Not that there would be any way of topping them up if they did. They don't even have the "magic eye" that the sealed starter on my car has. Actually I did consider fitting one of these for the starter, but decided to standardise on the Vartas, which on-paper seem to be a very strong starter battery, as well as a good habitation one. Seems too good to be true, but that's what I have gone for. Fingers crossed.

 

[maingate]

That is a most kind and generous offer. I'll send you a PM (if I can work out how to do so).

My partner has been diagnosed with an illness which won't improve, medical license on annual renewal, lost her grandfather rights for bigger, but still allowed 3.5 tonnes, and towing. If/when the day comes, I'll have to do all the driving, which will be tiring for me and frustrating for her. Downsizing needn't be so bad, I think some drag around a lot of clutter, when a modest little van like mine would be more manageable for just two people, and less of a worry for all sorts of reasons.

Fingers crossed for you.

My problem is that some of the clutter is 3 Whippets and 1 Jack Russell. I have got your PM and will find the cost of postage then get in touch with you.

 

[Sharpie]

My problem is that some of the clutter is 3 Whippets and 1 Jack Russell. I have got your PM and will find the cost of postage then get in touch with you.

I too have a dog (22 kg northumbrian flat coat collie), extremely intelligent, occasionally will-full, who is usually content in his bed under the table, but when it's just him and me prefers the passenger seat, or the driver's when left alone guarding the van, even though he's really too big to fit. He absolutely loves travel and all new experiences. Somehow everyone seems to like him, even the none-doggiest. We think we have room for the next dog too (he's getting on), just trying to decide what it's to be. All of our dogs have been rescues, we'd like a young one that current dog could bring on and teach it his impeccable manners.

 

[colinm]

I'm guessing your van is very similar, or same set up at front as our 2011 Campscout, RHD cab, LHD rear, which AFAIK all UK Globecar's bar one have been.
Whilst it is easier to get VB out the passenger door, it can still be accessed from between the seats.
To remove a seat leave it attached to swivel and unbolt swivel from frame, this will involve swivelling seat to access the various bolts and leaving the 'stop bolt' till last undoing that with a 20mm open ended spanner.

 

[Sharpie]

Update and corrections:

After four hours hard graft the new batteries are in. It went more smoothly this time.

I did discover a vent hole in the starter battery tray. But no vent tube, so one is in the post.

But the great news is that the EBL99 is an 18A version, now that I've actually studied the front panel carefully. So much for the manual provided which is for the 16A version. I was sure it was only giving the absorption charge at 14.3V for one hour, but perhaps I mislead myself and saw what I expected to see. I'll be checking again.

No further details obviously apparent, suffix or part number, it seems there are versions A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,K AND OVP. Will try to contact Schaudt next week to try to find out exactly what I've got, and the correct manual.

From what I can discover, the 1218 charger gives 4 hours absorption for wet batteries, 16 hours for gel. So I'll be using the wet setting. 14.3V is not high enough for AGM, maybe accounting for my disappointment with the previous two AGM sets, they may never have received a full charge. Should be fine for gel.

I found this document informative and succinct. I'll be cautious now about leaving the van plugged in continuously on my drive, it seems 13.8V float is indeed a little too high so could degrade them over time.

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/content/documents/battery-talk/issue-2-battery-talk-battery-charging.pdf

Feeling more confident, now that I have changed to wet cells.

Many thanks for all the good advice.

 

[Sharpie]

I'm guessing your van is very similar, or same set up at front as our 2011 Campscout, RHD cab, LHD rear, which AFAIK all UK Globecar's bar one have been.
Whilst it is easier to get VB out the passenger door, it can still be accessed from between the seats.

To remove a seat leave it attached to swivel and unbolt swivel from frame, this will involve swivelling seat to access the various bolts and leaving the 'stop bolt' till last undoing that with a 20mm open ended spanner.

Yes, that's the arrangement on mine.

I'm no longer limber enough to relish releasing the cover from the inside, easiest from the passenger door. Also easiest for flipping the hab. battery isolator on the Electroblock, under passenger seat, at the same time. Close door. Then enter cab from drivers side, plip the locks closed from inside, one grovel laying in the aisle between seats to spring off the earth connection, exit via. drivers door, lock with key. Well that'works for me and isn't so much effort (2p piece kept handy in glovebox for twisting the cover catches, and reminder of how to re-set clock, can never remember). Trip meter and fuel consumption data also lost, so take a note before isolating if you like to monitor these things, as I do.

Another minor emuggerance, the bonnet release catch is behind the passenger door, so you have to open it to open the bonnet to get to the jump start connection under there. Is that any different on true RHD vans ?

Which seems very weak, never had any success with that the one time I needed it, even with the heaviest jump leads and a donor vehicle that could have started a tank. Maybe I have an earth strap issue. Got it going after running engine on donor for 15 minutes so it's alternator pushed in just enough charge to turn it over. Jump leads direct to starter battery would probably have worked straight away but that wasn't possible the way I was parked. If unsuccessful you might be left with a passenger door that you can't lock.

These LHD/RHD hybrids don't seem to have been properly thought through, with regards to the locking arrangements. Even wondering how difficult it might be to put in a key lock on the passenger side. I'd like one on the sliding door too, but that's probably asking too much.

Even the drivers door lock is eccentric, the lock turns the opposite way to the rear doors (drivers door turning the wrong way compared to the usual, maybe also a result of the "conversion")

I can now see how taking off the seat with swivel could work. Combined they would be a heavy lump, but if I ever have to do it again I'll give it a try. Would make re-connecting the seat wiring more manageable, pulling through those cables with the big yellow connector to the front of the compartment the way I did it after the swivel was fitted, was a challenge both times. Do-able but only in a precise route. Your way I'd just have to tape them to the swivel in the right place, lower everything, and re-plug. Thanks. The four rear swivel-seat bolts (one being the "stop bolt), were much easier to remove this time, standard tools, no impact wrench required.

By the way, the stop bolt comes out with a suitable 20mm socket from the top, rather than an open ended spanner from the side. Doesn't look as if it would, but it does, less risk of chewing it up, the flats are pretty minimal, not like standard nuts and bolts.

My friend reckoned they may have been one-time use with pre-applied threadlock, but we copperslipped them last time and they came out this time without difficulty. Maybe not recommended, these are critical for crash safety.

 

[colinm]

reminder of how to re-set clock, can never remember).

I ran all last winter on CET summer time.

Another minor emuggerance, the bonnet release catch is behind the passenger door, so you have to open it to open the bonnet to get to the jump start connection under there. Is that any different on true RHD vans ?

I think they are all the same.

These LHD/RHD hybrids don't seem to have been properly thought through, with regards to the locking arrangements. Even wondering how difficult it might be to put in a key lock on the passenger side. I'd like one on the sliding door too, but that's probably asking too much.

The only real differance is a LHD you can access bonnet catch, a RHD has the same problems.

I can now see how taking off the seat with swivel could work. Combined they would be a heavy lump, but if I ever have to do it again I'll give it a try.

As per my first post, lower the table to bed position, remove seat cushion from dinette seat, put cardboard or similar on top, swivel passenger seat half way and it's a easy job for two people to lift drivers seat across, could have probably done it myself but gf won't let me lift anything with my dodgy hip.

My friend reckoned they may have been one-time use with pre-applied threadlock, but we copperslipped them last time and they came out this time without difficulty. Maybe not recommended, these are critical for crash safety.

Took mine out with 'pro' 1/4 drive socket set, they where tight, but never felt at anytime anything was going to go wrong.

 

[Sharpie]

Update:

After a few days testing, I am now more confident that my EBL 99 18A is charging my new wet batteries satisfactorily. Haven't significantly discharged them yet, so it's early days.

I was puzzled to see that, on float, the hab. batteries were registering off the top of the scale (13.5 V) on the basic LED panel, (expected, float is 13.8V) but the starter battery only 12.7V

Studied the EBL schematic, and that now makes sense. The starter battery trickle charge circuit is simply a resistor to notionally limit current to I think 2A or so peak, in series with a reverse blocking diode to prevent a low starter draining down the hab. batteries too. Actual value measured at the terminals was 12.85V.

That diode, if silicon rather than a better Schottky, will be dropping at least 0.6 V, combined with the volt drop across the current-limit resistor, that accounts for the discrepancy. I'd have designed it differently, using a constant current driver, but hey-ho it's ,simple, inexpensive, only two passive parts to go wrong. It's not really a charger, more a maintainer. If your starter gets low you'll either need to drive for a while, or better connect a proper charger directly to it. Don't expect the EBL to do any significant charging.

I also measured parasitic drain, my Ducato takes a constant 70 milliamps. Newer ones with much more electronic kit might take more. Might not sound much, but simplistically that's enough to completely deeply discharge a nominal 90 Ah battery in about 54 days, a less fresh one sooner. I wouldn't want to let the starter go below 75%, so I'll be isolating it if foreseeing it standing longer than say a fortnight. Short runs around town may not put back in what the starter motor used either, so I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

 

[colinm]

but the starter battery only 12.7V

Studied the EBL schematic, and that now makes sense. The starter battery trickle charge circuit is simply a resistor to notionally limit current to I think 2A or so peak, in series with a reverse blocking diode to prevent a low starter draining down the hab. batteries too. Actual value measured at the terminals was 12.85V.

That diode, if silicon rather than a better Schottky, will be dropping at least 0.6 V, combined with the volt drop across the current-limit resistor, that accounts for the discrepancy.

Are you saying the discrepancy between 12.7 and 12.85? if so the the panel will only show 12.7v until the voltage reads
≥13v,

 

[Sharpie]

The discrepancy is that I was expecting starter and hab. batteries to both be getting the EBL float voltage, nominally 13.8 V

Which the hab. batteries are. Checked with multimeter (actually a litlle bit off, slightly on the low side, but that's actually good, current thinking is that 13.8V is a little high for wet cells).

The basic monitor panel just has a series of LEDs, the highest indicating 13.5 V or higher, Doesn't tell you anything useful about how the charger is managing the bulk, absorption or float voltages and durations, you need to use a multimeter to monitor that, but does give confidence that it seems to be working.

But the starter battery only ever lit the 12.7V LED after two days on hookup. The next one up is 13.0V, so it was indicating well enough. Somewhere in-between the two. That's why I checked it, on the terminals, and saw 12.85V. That's beginning with a fully charged battery (I charged all three with a really good charger before fitting them, they were sitting at 12.45V as delivered which was not great, rested them for a day then they were sitting at 12.7V or so, which is spot-on). So I am convinced that the maximum the starter will ever float at on hookup is 12.85V, which is probably adequate.

As for the trickle "charger" for the starter in the EBL, I can't imagine anything more crude, just a resistor and a diode cobbled on to the main charger supply. You might hope that it would do what the spec. implies, i.e charge up the starter fully at say 2A maximum, then float at suitable voltage, but fat chance of that. If it's run low, but the hab. batteries haven't, its the hab. batteries that will control the bulk and absorption times, which will be far too short to put any meaningful charge into the starter. Then it will switch to float, only 12.85V maximum (for a fully charged starter, if not fully charged even less). That's not going to inject any more meaningful charge no matter how long you leave it.

.As I said, just think of it as a maintainer, not a charger.

FWIW the sequence of LEDs on the indicator is:

11.0V red, warning symbol.
11.5 red
12.0 green
12.2 green
12.5 green
12.7 green
13.0 green
>13.5 green.

I'd say that's incorrect, by 12.0 the battery is pretty much empty, 20% or less, that should also be red.
12.2 should be amber, you could be below 50% discharge by then.
12.5 is generally reckoned to be the lower limit for the maximum recommended 50% discharge limit.

These observations only apply to my EBL 99, possibly things have been improved in newer models. A quick check of the schematics should show you, if there is still just a resistor and diode supplying the starter then I wouldn't expect much difference.

I'll live with it, but tempted to just pull the fuse on the internal charger and connect a better one through the connector provided, together with a small proper charger/maintainer for the starter.

 

[colinm]

OK I see now, in our 2011 van the VB will show as 12.7 or 13 when on EHU, the couple of times I've checked, it has been very close to 13v, the ebl99 is configured to make sure it replaces any lost charge in HB, and expects there to be little loss of VB charge, in normal usage this makes a lot of sense, but if the van has been left for a long time and the VB is discharged it can take days to get it back up to charge.

 

[Firthy]

What a great thread. I can see that people have come up with their own way to get the job done. I’ve just changed my Hymer for a Burstner. It has an ebl99 but I’m not sure which one yet. I’ve just upgraded to 2x115ah batteries and haven’t put solar on yet. Needless to say my first investigation will be which variant EBL I have and which charger.

 

[wildebus]

What a great thread. I can see that people have come up with their own way to get the job done. I’ve just changed my Hymer for a Burstner. It has an ebl99 but I’m not sure which one yet. I’ve just upgraded to 2x115ah batteries and haven’t put solar on yet. Needless to say my first investigation will be which variant EBL I have and which charger.

if you have an EBL99, the varient IS 99 The general device is a Schaudt EBL (Electroblock) , and then you might have a 99, 119, 109 or whatever.

 

[molly 2]

I have a sargent 328 never found monitoring with volts much good , so fitted a shunt battery monitor , soon realised how long if took to fully charge my 110 amp L battery up to 110 amps , a member friend fitted 2 , 90 amp varta batteries and found them superb ,

 

[Firthy]

if you have an EBL99, the varient IS 99 The general device is a Schaudt EBL (Electroblock) , and then you might have a 99, 119, 109 or whatever.

If you read back through this thread as I did it seems the EBL99 has more than 1 variant. With modifications being made to it over the years. One of the main ones being the charger. 16Amp to 18Amp

 

[wildebus]

If you read back through this thread as I did it seems the EBL99 has more than 1 variant. With modifications being made to it over the years. One of the main ones being the charger. 16Amp to 18Amp

Yeah, that is really a big difference. I'm just like "wowed" at that improvement. Astounding upgrade.

Now for what YOU want to do, there is no difference between and EBL99, and virtually no difference between most of the EBLs whatever the number. They work well as a 12V PDU and less well as a charger. And that is about it.

 

[maingate]

If you read back through this thread as I did it seems the EBL99 has more than 1 variant. With modifications being made to it over the years. One of the main ones being the charger. 16Amp to 18Amp

And over the years they have been the most reliable and robust system in motorhomes. All of the competition started breaking down when owners started using more electrical goods, adding another battery and using 240 volt through inverters. It cost £800 10 years ago to get around this type of failure on the Reich system in my Burstner (the previous owner paid it, not me).

 

[korky]

You won't go far wrong with the Varta LFD90's. I had 2 in my 2012 Globescout for 5 years,with the EBL99 set for lead acid charging. I dropped the voltage twice lower than I considered is good for batteries, and although they were still performing OK,with a long trip looming, swapped them for Yuasa EFB's. My mate doing his own build had them off me for £50 and 3yrs on they're still working.