Ecoflow delta 2 power station problem

[wildebus]

Eco flow has a built-in charger so it resets to polarity that mains charging cable is plugged into IE uk or Europe ..

UK or Europe? Europe doesn't have an AC system with a different polarity to the UK! it is just it is more likely for the wiring to be WRONG.

Sounds to me that the Ecoflow has a poor design that it will flip flop potentially and you won't know what is going on!
Take the Victron Multiplus I mentioned earlier ... If you are feeding that with a reversed polarity supply, the output will be reversed polarity, as it is passing through the supply - and if need be supplementing it from the battery via the Inverter.
But if there is NO AC supply in, it will revert to the correct polarity (even whilst in use).
THAT is the kind of function you want and is safe, not some "finger in the air" guessing what polarity the output is will be on an inverter.

 

[molly 2]

I can't really see where you a going on this thread so I'm out

 

[Geek]

The "reverse polarity" thing is a bit of a misunderstanding.

A 230v / 240v AC mains supply is supplied down two wires. The voltage is between them. In the UK, at least, one of the wires is labelled "neutral" and is supplied at more or less the potential of the ground, with the phase (or live) wire at plus or minus that voltage in a sine wave. This means that in theory, you could get a 240v shock if you touch a live wire when elecrically connected to the structure of the building.

From an inverter, however, there is no "more or less the potential of the ground" connection to pin the neutral to, so the voltages from live or neutral to ground are pretty arbritrary, though there should be around 230 volts between them. This means that you could* touch the "live" wire (or the "neutral" wire) (but not both) and not get a shock.

The mere concept of "reverse polarity" makes no sense for an inverter or generator in a motorhome. Any alert that this is a problem is simply a manifestation of the stupidity of the tester.

Earth is something else. Again, the mains supply will have its own earth. For a domestic setup, this will usually (but not always) be supplied from the substation, nowadays generally connected to the neutral line.

For a hookup point, the earth should not be connected to the mains-supplied earth wire, but instead it should be connected to an earth spike connected to the actual earth. Electricians call this TT (short for the french phrase).

A generator or invertor supply will probably have the earth connected to the chassis of the vehicle, but it's not likely to have the neutral wire connected to the chassis as well: it's safer as a floating voltage.

*Not reommended, though!

 

[trevskoda]

The "reverse polarity" thing is a bit of a misunderstanding.

A 230v / 240v AC mains supply is supplied down two wires. The voltage is between them. In the UK, at least, one of the wires is labelled "neutral" and is supplied at more or less the potential of the ground, with the phase (or live) wire at plus or minus that voltage in a sine wave. This means that in theory, you could get a 240v shock if you touch a live wire when elecrically connected to the structure of the building.

From an inverter, however, there is no "more or less the potential of the ground" connection to pin the neutral to, so the voltages from live or neutral to ground are pretty arbritrary, though there should be around 230 volts between them. This means that you could* touch the "live" wire (or the "neutral" wire) (but not both) and not get a shock.

The mere concept of "reverse polarity" makes no sense for an inverter or generator in a motorhome. Any alert that this is a problem is simply a manifestation of the stupidity of the tester.

Earth is something else. Again, the mains supply will have its own earth. For a domestic setup, this will usually (but not always) be supplied from the substation, nowadays generally connected to the neutral line.

For a hookup point, the earth should not be connected to the mains-supplied earth wire, but instead it should be connected to an earth spike connected to the actual earth. Electricians call this TT (short for the french phrase).

A generator or invertor supply will probably have the earth connected to the chassis of the vehicle, but it's not likely to have the neutral wire connected to the chassis as well: it's safer as a floating voltage.

*Not reommended, though!

All ok but just a we point, the ac is only supplied down one wire the live, neg is the same as an earth and dead to all extents, other wise a good post.

 

[Okta]

All ok but just a we point, the ac is only supplied down one wire the live, neg is the same as an earth and dead to all extents, other wise a good post.

But that is not necessarily true of an inverter supply where the AC can be supplied by both of the wires.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I kinda like old-fashioned gas most of the time... (heresy!)

 

[Geek]

All ok but just a we point, the ac is only supplied down one wire the live, neg is the same as an earth and dead to all extents,

That's what I wrote isn't it?

It's distributed in three phases with no neutral. Only separated to single phase 240v at the substation (or sometimes on a pole transformer). At that point the neutral appears and is (meant to be) tied to earth potential. But that's earth potential *at the substation*.

It can be way off earth at the "customer premises", which is why they usually also supply earth. You're meant to apply that earth to your premises, using PME to bring the building to the mains supply potential, rather than the earth outside.

This has implications for electric lawnmowers, motorhome hookups and EV chargers, which cannot be inside the PME cage.

You can't use the TNS or TNCS earth for a hookup supply in case someone steps out of the door and gets a shock when their foot touches a muddy patch.

For the same reason, the neutral side might be at a dangerous potential in a motorhome.

And that's why "reverse polarity" is nonsense. You have to assume that neither "polarity" is at local earth potential, yet the motorhome bodywork should be at local earth potential because of TT earthing.

 

[bigears]

Good Morning,
Sorry to bother you but I came across your post as i was searching for an answer to my problem which apparently you had. ie received my ecofow delta 2 yesterday and charged it up plugged it in the hookup on the motorhome and like you the reverse polarity light was on my sergeamt EC700 but everything worked ok. I noticed your post about their reply of a 240v charger and yoou found it worked. I may be a bit thick here but do you mean plug in a battery chrger to the unit
switch it on and off and voilla or am I missing something. I DID ontact ecoflow and they said you need a grounding adapter just go on the website and purchase one , so i looked on the website and found it was £89.00 and said for EV So I am completely confused which is why I am asking you. once again sorry for the question but just want to make sure what you did

Thanks for replies , I contacted eco flow customer service ,had 2 replies in under 12 hours ,all I had to do was connect 240v charger ( I have never done this as I only used solar ) and the ecofow will automatically change to the correct polarity, , did this and bingo it worked , very impressed with ecoflow customer service

 

[merl]

I've posted on this subject many times. The concept of Live and Neutral only happens when Earth is introduced and in our mains system we take the output from a local transformer (230v AC) and we connect ONE of these connections to planet earth, this now becomes the neutral and by nature the other becomes live. IF we didn't earth one of the connections we'd have a 'floating' 230V AC supply with NO neutral and NO live, this is essentially what you get with the output of an inverter, no live and no neutral, just a floating supply so mains testers and Sargent systems often 'see' this floating output as reversed L+N.
Read Geeks post, he's spot on.

 

[Okta]

Good Morning,
Sorry to bother you but I came across your post as i was searching for an answer to my problem which apparently you had. ie received my ecofow delta 2 yesterday and charged it up plugged it in the hookup on the motorhome and like you the reverse polarity light was on my sergeamt EC700 but everything worked ok. I noticed your post about their reply of a 240v charger and yoou found it worked. I may be a bit thick here but do you mean plug in a battery chrger to the unit
switch it on and off and voilla or am I missing something. I DID ontact ecoflow and they said you need a grounding adapter just go on the website and purchase one , so i looked on the website and found it was £89.00 and said for EV So I am completely confused which is why I am asking you. once again sorry for the question but just want to make sure what you did

The first thing to be aware of is that polarity is a very British thing, most of the rest of the world assumes that either or both of the wires may be live. The second thing is that the output from your Ecoflow is from an inverter and inverters are often designed to produce an output that makes both wires live, which is probably why your polarity light is showing. Ecoflow design their devices for a world market and will not have redesigned it specifically for the eccentricities of the UK market.

To prove my point I have just tested my Ecoflow River. The voltage between the 2 pins is a normal 230V but both pins are live. The voltage between the individual pins and the earth connection is only about 140V +/- . These 2 lower voltage live wires are out of phase but between them they achieve the standard 230V 50Hz supply.

The only practical thing to remember is that switching off at the socket/plug does not mean that the circuit is safe because that is not how inverters work.

Edit. Just seen @merl ’s post which is a good explanation.

 

[marchie]

I kinda like old-fashioned gas most of the time... (heresy!)

That way, if there is an electrical spark and a slight gas leak, you will have the mother of all pyrotechnic send offs ... . There's a punchline about boom and bust somewhere, but I can't quite make it work ...

Steve