gary a
Guest
mayb a stupid question,but is there a legality against dringing in m/h when parked up,,what would our freinds in black think,,
NWPT
Guest
On private land ie a camp site you should have no problem. At the side of the road on a public highway/wild camping you may have an issue as you are in charge of the vehicle even if you have no intention of moving/driving. If I were on private land I would quite happily enjoy a few beers/bottle of red, wildcamping I would not as you never know if you may be forced to move in the early hours. The offence is drunk in charge, if the plod can prove that you are banned, simple as!
TWS
Guest
Good question, often wondered about this one.
Tom
Tom
gary a
Guest
could you not just say no ,as you have been soupin and your not able to drive,, with your night gown on
urbtaf
Guest
Ive been told that if I give the keys to my non driving wife, who then locks them in the safe so I cant get them. Then Im not in charge!!
Was told this by an ex copper who said a case like this was dismissed when it went to court
Was told this by an ex copper who said a case like this was dismissed when it went to court
Deleted member 775
Guest
there has been quite a lot of discussion on this matter and i think the general idea is that you may be prosecuted for drunk in charge, but the chances are quite remote of the police obtaining a successful outcome in the courts, hence not many officers are likely to even try . what a lot of people think is you cannot be prosecuted on a camp site wrong it is still classed as on public land, ie members of the public have access to the site and even if they cannot get you that night they will be at the site entrance next morning , my practice is i will have a drink not get legless a couple or three cans at night with a meal is enough because the next problem is you have to drive next morning, thats the time you will get a tug so use your own common sence when out in the van.
, my practice is i will have a drink not get legless a couple or three cans at night with a meal is enough because the next problem is you have to drive next morning, thats the time you will get a tug so use your own common sence when out in the van.reggaj
Guest
i'll let u draw ur own conclusion on this subject
An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
[15th November 1988]
Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Principal Road Safety Provisions
Driving offences
Causing death by reckless driving.
1. A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Reckless driving.
2. A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.
3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
Motor vehicles: drink and drugs
Driving, or being in charge, when under influence of drink or drugs.
4.—(1) A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(2) Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, a person who, when in charge of a motor vehicle which is on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a motor vehicle if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
(4) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (3) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
(5) For the purposes of this section, a person shall be taken to be unfit to drive if his ability to drive properly is for the time being impaired.
(6) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section.
(7) For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(8) Subsection (7) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection affects any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
Driving or being in charge of a motor vehicle with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit.
5.—(1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
(3) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (2) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
Breath tests.
6.—(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable cause to suspect—
(a) that a person driving or attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place has alcohol in his body or has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion, or
(b) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with alcohol in his body and that that person still has alcohol in his body, or
(c) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place and has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion,
he may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require him to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(2) If an accident occurs owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, a constable may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require any person who he has reasonable cause to believe was driving or attempting to drive or in charge of the vehicle at the time of the accident to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(3) A person may be required under subsection (1) or subsection (2) above to provide a specimen either at or near the place where the requirement is made or, if the requirement is made under subsection (2) above and the constable making the requirement thinks fit, at a police station specified by the constable.
(4) A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to provide a specimen of breath when required to do so in pursuance of this section is guilty of an offence.
(5) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if—
(a) as a result of a breath test he has reasonable cause to suspect that the proportion of alcohol in that person's breath or blood exceeds the prescribed limit, or
(b) that person has failed to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test when required to do so in pursuance of this section and the constable has reasonable cause to suspect that he has alcohol in his body,
but a person shall not be arrested by virtue of this subsection when he is at a hospital as a patient.
(6) A constable may, for the purpose of requiring a person to provide a specimen of breath under subsection (2) above in a case where he has reasonable cause to suspect that the accident involved injury to another person or of arresting him in such a case under subsection (5) above, enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(7) Subsection (6) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection shall affect any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
(8) In this section "traffic offence" means an offence under—
(a) any provision of Part II of the [1981 c. 14.] Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981,
(b) any provision of the [1984 c. 27.] Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
(c) any provision of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 except Part III, or
(d) any provision of this Act except Part V.
An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
[15th November 1988]
Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Principal Road Safety Provisions
Driving offences
Causing death by reckless driving.
1. A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Reckless driving.
2. A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.
3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
Motor vehicles: drink and drugs
Driving, or being in charge, when under influence of drink or drugs.
4.—(1) A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(2) Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, a person who, when in charge of a motor vehicle which is on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a motor vehicle if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
(4) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (3) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
(5) For the purposes of this section, a person shall be taken to be unfit to drive if his ability to drive properly is for the time being impaired.
(6) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section.
(7) For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(8) Subsection (7) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection affects any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
Driving or being in charge of a motor vehicle with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit.
5.—(1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
(3) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (2) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
Breath tests.
6.—(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable cause to suspect—
(a) that a person driving or attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place has alcohol in his body or has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion, or
(b) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with alcohol in his body and that that person still has alcohol in his body, or
(c) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place and has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion,
he may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require him to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(2) If an accident occurs owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, a constable may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require any person who he has reasonable cause to believe was driving or attempting to drive or in charge of the vehicle at the time of the accident to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(3) A person may be required under subsection (1) or subsection (2) above to provide a specimen either at or near the place where the requirement is made or, if the requirement is made under subsection (2) above and the constable making the requirement thinks fit, at a police station specified by the constable.
(4) A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to provide a specimen of breath when required to do so in pursuance of this section is guilty of an offence.
(5) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if—
(a) as a result of a breath test he has reasonable cause to suspect that the proportion of alcohol in that person's breath or blood exceeds the prescribed limit, or
(b) that person has failed to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test when required to do so in pursuance of this section and the constable has reasonable cause to suspect that he has alcohol in his body,
but a person shall not be arrested by virtue of this subsection when he is at a hospital as a patient.
(6) A constable may, for the purpose of requiring a person to provide a specimen of breath under subsection (2) above in a case where he has reasonable cause to suspect that the accident involved injury to another person or of arresting him in such a case under subsection (5) above, enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(7) Subsection (6) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection shall affect any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
(8) In this section "traffic offence" means an offence under—
(a) any provision of Part II of the [1981 c. 14.] Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981,
(b) any provision of the [1984 c. 27.] Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
(c) any provision of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 except Part III, or
(d) any provision of this Act except Part V.
Deleted member 775
Guest
i'll let u draw ur own conclusion on this subject
An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
[15th November 1988]
Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Principal Road Safety Provisions
Driving offences
Causing death by reckless driving.
1. A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Reckless driving.
2. A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.
3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
Motor vehicles: drink and drugs
Driving, or being in charge, when under influence of drink or drugs.
4.—(1) A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(2) Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, a person who, when in charge of a motor vehicle which is on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a motor vehicle if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
(4) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (3) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
(5) For the purposes of this section, a person shall be taken to be unfit to drive if his ability to drive properly is for the time being impaired.
(6) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section.
(7) For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(8) Subsection (7) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection affects any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
Driving or being in charge of a motor vehicle with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit.
5.—(1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
(3) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (2) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
Breath tests.
6.—(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable cause to suspect—
(a) that a person driving or attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place has alcohol in his body or has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion, or
(b) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with alcohol in his body and that that person still has alcohol in his body, or
(c) that a person has been driving or attempting to drive or been in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place and has committed a traffic offence whilst the vehicle was in motion,
he may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require him to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(2) If an accident occurs owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, a constable may, subject to section 9 of this Act, require any person who he has reasonable cause to believe was driving or attempting to drive or in charge of the vehicle at the time of the accident to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test.
(3) A person may be required under subsection (1) or subsection (2) above to provide a specimen either at or near the place where the requirement is made or, if the requirement is made under subsection (2) above and the constable making the requirement thinks fit, at a police station specified by the constable.
(4) A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to provide a specimen of breath when required to do so in pursuance of this section is guilty of an offence.
(5) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if—
(a) as a result of a breath test he has reasonable cause to suspect that the proportion of alcohol in that person's breath or blood exceeds the prescribed limit, or
(b) that person has failed to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test when required to do so in pursuance of this section and the constable has reasonable cause to suspect that he has alcohol in his body,
but a person shall not be arrested by virtue of this subsection when he is at a hospital as a patient.
(6) A constable may, for the purpose of requiring a person to provide a specimen of breath under subsection (2) above in a case where he has reasonable cause to suspect that the accident involved injury to another person or of arresting him in such a case under subsection (5) above, enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(7) Subsection (6) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection shall affect any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
(8) In this section "traffic offence" means an offence under—
(a) any provision of Part II of the [1981 c. 14.] Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981,
(b) any provision of the [1984 c. 27.] Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
(c) any provision of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 except Part III, or
(d) any provision of this Act except Part V.
very good, looks as if you have surfed the net
another barrack room lawyer even cops dont know all that . and i suppose all that is quite true,the only thing i see is driving or attempting to drive. can you tell me how you are attempting to drive with curtains closed no keys and naked it could happen i suppose, anyway never heard or seen it happen you take your choice,i once wore one of those silly hats no they dont keep truncheon meat sandwiches under them .everything must be proved i a court of law thats the hardest part
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Deleted member 775
Guest
i think as this topic has been chewed over many a time on this and other occasions, there is only one answer. and that is that the individual decides what to do if you want a drink then do so, if not then dont .me personaly i will continue to have a drink as i have always done as long as it is in moderation and taking into account of next morning and where i am parked .
PaulC
Guest
You may have no intention to drive, but what happens if you have got to drive! Due to say a flood, which which seems to occur quite often now, to avoid to confrontation, etc, etc. There are a multitude of reasons!
Deleted member 775
Guest
you have a point there ,i may have been lucky in the past but up to press i have never been put in that situation i take care of where i do overnight . i have been wild camping in tents and camper vans for a lot of years more years than i care to remember also the amount i drink is realy not a problem if it was between personal safety and risking a pull for drink drive i think i would risk the latter .but as that has never happened yet i will take my chances albeit a slim one .
walkers
Guest
Having read 'act' earlier in this thread, the offence is not of driving or attempting to drive, it is of being drunk in charge in a public place or on a public highway. A public car park is a public place. You take the risk if you see fit, I personally won't because if you are then asked to move on and you can be it will be drunk driving.
What one truck driver told me a long time ago is 'we swap keys so there is no way we can be proven to have an intention to drive' . I don't know if this has ever been tested, but it could be interesting as I am presuming if you are employed or self employed to drive a lorry and are in it you are in charge of it with or without the keys.
Best to be sensible and be safe to yourself and other road users surely.
What one truck driver told me a long time ago is 'we swap keys so there is no way we can be proven to have an intention to drive' . I don't know if this has ever been tested, but it could be interesting as I am presuming if you are employed or self employed to drive a lorry and are in it you are in charge of it with or without the keys.
Best to be sensible and be safe to yourself and other road users surely.
tresrikay
Guest
We used to have this discussion when I lived on the Narrowboat, when they brought in a similar law about being drunk in charge of a boat........ I still regularly see boaters cruising with a glass of wine or a bottle of beer in hand but have never seen the old bill running down the towpath to the next bridge hole attempting an easy feel.
Also could not the tenter or caravanner in his tent or in his van with the car keys in his pocket be in charge of his vehicle?, it is only the same as us sat outside our vans with a tipple. A damn site easier to take off in their cars than for us to turn round the seats, undo the blinds, turn off the gas, get dressed, put all the bottles and glasses and magazines away......... find the bloody keys that we put somewhere so that we wouldnt be tempted to drive off at night to a better spot than the one we found and liked in daylight...... officer!!!
Also could not the tenter or caravanner in his tent or in his van with the car keys in his pocket be in charge of his vehicle?, it is only the same as us sat outside our vans with a tipple. A damn site easier to take off in their cars than for us to turn round the seats, undo the blinds, turn off the gas, get dressed, put all the bottles and glasses and magazines away......... find the bloody keys that we put somewhere so that we wouldnt be tempted to drive off at night to a better spot than the one we found and liked in daylight...... officer!!!
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fairways18
Guest
I don't think we have too much to worry about because if the gentlemen in blue do have the power to charge us for this they would have a field day.
There are thousands of motorhomes parked up every day and night 24/7 and I bet that 99.99% of us that are "in charge" whilst parked up have a couple or three tinnies...and the odd bottle or two of wine.
I think such a law does exist but for whatever reason the police choose not to enforce it as long as we're parked up in a place lawful and with no obvious intention of moving.
Well thats what I think anyway.....
because if the gentlemen in blue do have the power to charge us for this they would have a field day. There are thousands of motorhomes parked up every day and night 24/7 and I bet that 99.99% of us that are "in charge" whilst parked up have a couple or three tinnies...and the odd bottle or two of wine.
I think such a law does exist but for whatever reason the police choose not to enforce it as long as we're parked up in a place lawful and with no obvious intention of moving.
Well thats what I think anyway.....
tresrikay
Guest
Err, how do you set your alarm at night or unset it in the morning if you have given your keys to someone else
Hi Graham, you old B*****r,
My alarm fitted byPHLY audio is an add on to the Renault security which is just door and immobiliser.
The system I have has a seperate fob and arms all doors, lockers and the bonnet, plus the interior. You can disarm the interior sensors with a code and sleep in the vehicle with all the rest armed.
You have to remember if you do this otherwise when you drowsily open the door in the morning and have not disarmed then
....... well you do get a few frosty looks....... and yes I have .....twiceSo you could leave the keys with someone and just keep the alarm fob.... which does lock and unlock the doors as well.
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cipro
Guest
Nice one maybe we can get this sorted once and for all. As this does seem a grey areaHi all,
most of us probably have a free legal advice section on our insurance policy's, anyone tried to get info this way? I have just sent of an e-mail to ask a Lawyer about this problem of drinking when parked up for the night, so will post his reply asap.
Happy Camping
Pioneer
Guest
Hi All,
this is the reply I received from the free legal assistance team, hope it helps sort out this grey area.
*********************************************************
If you are legally parked then you should not be prosecuted. However you should make sure the keys are not in the ignition or they could potentially prosecute you for drunk in charge
We hope this information answers your question and that you found our free service fast, comprehensive and useful. We answer questions on any legal matter so please tell anyone else who you think might benefit from our free assistance.
It would also be a good idea to bookmark http://www.lawanswers.co.uk in case you need free advice on any other legal question.
Please come back to us if you have any other legal matter we can assist with in future.
*********************************************************
It would appear that the information I got back as already been covered by previous posts, but at least if neccessary we can quote the reply from the above people.
Happy Camping
this is the reply I received from the free legal assistance team, hope it helps sort out this grey area.
*********************************************************
If you are legally parked then you should not be prosecuted. However you should make sure the keys are not in the ignition or they could potentially prosecute you for drunk in charge
We hope this information answers your question and that you found our free service fast, comprehensive and useful. We answer questions on any legal matter so please tell anyone else who you think might benefit from our free assistance.
It would also be a good idea to bookmark http://www.lawanswers.co.uk in case you need free advice on any other legal question.
Please come back to us if you have any other legal matter we can assist with in future.
*********************************************************
It would appear that the information I got back as already been covered by previous posts, but at least if neccessary we can quote the reply from the above people.
Happy Camping
Guest
Guest
Thanks, just as I thought
just as I thoughtPaulC
Guest
Very good, but it does not alter the fact that if you HAVE to move for whatever reason then that would leave you open to a ban!