Diesel or Gas heating?

[gasgas]

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I bought Hardly (my camper) which originally would have had a nice Carver gas heater. Some idiot has changed it to a Chinese diesel heater. The 'instructions' are a random combination of words from the English dictionary. Some personage has got hold of an English dictionary, ripped random pages out and stuck them on a wall. Then they threw darts at the pages to choose the sequence of words to form the 'instructions'.
Anyway as the instructions are not comprehensible I couldn't work out how to use it. I then bought a used Eberspacher diesel heater which is in a different league - in that it works and you can download proper instructions and the workshop manual. Eberspacher is the same as Webasto - why, I don't know but they are identical, and different to the Chinese ones. I paid £350 for the used Eberspacher heater compared to £20 for a new Chinese one, and around £950 for a new Eberspacher.
We are going out in the camper for this weekend so as it is frosty and I haven't tried the heater in earnest I decided to sleep in it last night. It is basically OK, it has an excellent, easy to use controller and proper instructions.
My conclusions are:
1) It takes a long time, about an hour to warm the camper from 0 degrees to 13 or more. I set it running and then went indoors for an hour. When I returned to the camper it was still a bit chilly to get undressed and in to bed.
2) Overnight I set it to 18 degrees because I was afraid that 13 would be too cold.
3) Overnight it was fine, I never woke up shivering or feeling cold.
4) It didn't use much diesel, I reckon about one litre. I have a separate 10 litre tank mounted behind the driver's seat and as it is transluscent I can see how much is in there.
5) It does 'modulate' : i.e. as the van approaches the set temperature the power output and diesel consumption decreases. So it won't just run at full power and wake you up in a sweat in the middle of the night.

My overall conclusion is that I am a bit of an idiot. I just got carried away with the enthusiastic users of diesel heaters, and went and bought one without thinking straight. Why didn't I just buy a Carver gas heater which was originally installed, and had all the electric wiring, gas, heating and chimney pipes already there? It would have heated the camper more quickly, and maintain a higher temperature during the night. And cost less . . . .

 

[barryd]

The only experience I remember of Eberspacher heaters is on yachts and I can concur they seemed to take an age to get going. Its going back 15 to 20 years but when I had my boat after the pub in the depths of winter we used to sometimes go back to various boats for more debauchery and if they hadn't been pre warmed they took bloody ages to heat up and fan heaters rapidly appeared.

Diesel heating seems to be the trend now but my experience of gas heating in our current van is its bloody good and quick to warm up. Pity it uses so much gas which of course you are limited with unlike diesel.

 

[Nabsim]

If I wanted to heat the van quickly I would set the Eber to something like 30 degrees then as it got closer to what I wanted I would turn it down. Now I aren't one who likes it hot so I would usually have inside temp around 18 to 20 degrees if I wanted it warm. The D4 Eberspacher is easily enough in my 7.5mtr coach built. I could never leave the Eberspacher set higher than 10 degrees when I slept as it is mounted under the French bed and got way to hot for me.

I took mine out to service it a year ago January and have been using a 5Kw Chinese heater from MaxPeedingRods with Bluetooth. It's as good as the Eberspacher with the exception the CDH doesn't modulate the temperature. Easy enough though with the bluetooth to adjust.

If I had a full gas system in my van I would still fit a diesel heater as well

 

[Fisherman]

Had gas in my last van and it was fine, but I forked out some extra cash for my latest van and got a Truma Diesel combi and it was money well spent, as nab says set it high then adjust when the temperature has been reached. I don’t know how much diesel I use but it’s a pittance. Diesel is readily available cheaper. My gas boiler in winter could empty a 13kg Calor in a week at a cost of £56. The diesel heater would probably use around a gallon in that time costing around £8-10.

 

[barryd]

If I had a full gas system in my van I would still fit a diesel heater as well

Interesting. How easy is that and is there a way to add it into the current blown air system? I suppose it doesn't matter if a diesel system takes longer as long as once its up to speed it can maintain a temperature. You could heat it up quick with gas then switch to diesel. If I was on diesel though and needed heat I would just leave it on all the time, even when out as you are never going to run out of diesel. Kind of like what we do now on EHU. I just set the thermostat around 22c when we are in the van and knock it down to about 15 overnight. I generally leave it on around 20c if we go out so the van is warm on our return. The Gas heating is great but your just so limited to the size of the gas bottles.

 

[barryd]

Had gas in my last van and it was fine, but I forked out some extra cash for my latest van and got a Truma Diesel combi and it was money well spent, as nab says set it high then adjust when the temperature has been reached. I don’t know how much diesel I use but it’s a pittance. Diesel is readily available cheaper. My gas boiler in winter could empty a 13kg Calor in a week at a cost of £56. The diesel heater would probably use around a gallon in that time costing around £8-10.

Does a diesel heater use less diesel than a gas heater uses LPG then Bill to heat the same space at the same temperature because if you use refillable gas like most of us do its cheaper than diesel. The cost is not a factor to me though, its the available quantity but I just assumed they would use about the same.

 

[mistericeman]

I have to say having had both a carver gas fire and swapped it for a genuine eberspacher....
Im very happy.... Yes IF the van is icebox cold having not had the heating on recently....
It takes a few minutes to warm up...
BUT the same was true with the Gas fire...

2kw Eberspacher is plenty in our sundance 590....

Fully functioning thermostat (lacking on a lot of Chinese clones) is a necessity for me... Rather than the usual clones dropping the pump Hertz rate to minimum but not actually off.

Love the convenience of filling it's fuel source when I fill the main tank
And saving LPG (even though we are on Gaslow) as well as not having to search for LPG stations.

Not a chance I'd go back to gas heating.

 

[Fisherman]

Does a diesel heater use less diesel than a gas heater uses LPG then Bill to heat the same space at the same temperature because if you use refillable gas like most of us do its cheaper than diesel. The cost is not a factor to me though, its the available quantity but I just assumed they would use about the same.

It’s difficult to work out how much diesel Barry, but it’s negligible. Even after a couple of winter nights my fuel gauge reads the same. But not having to regularly find gas is a bonus. And it’s much cheaper. I any have the 4kw heater, you would need a larger capacity probably 6kw for your van Barry.

 

[barryd]

It’s difficult to work out how much diesel Barry, but it’s negligible. Even after a couple of winter nights my fuel gauge reads the same. But not having to regularly find gas is a bonus. And it’s much cheaper. I any have the 4kw heater, you would need a larger capacity probably 6kw for your van Barry.

Its not cheaper than Autogas though Bill which most of us use but as said its only limited to how much diesel you have in your tank which of course is just not an issue. Yes I think when I looked it 6kw was probably what was recommended. However without looking I think it was a few thousand to fit it and I suspect a 6kw system would need a further upgrade in battery and solar.

 

[mistericeman]

Its not cheaper than Autogas though Bill which most of us use but as said its only limited to how much diesel you have in your tank which of course is just not an issue. Yes I think when I looked it 6kw was probably what was recommended. However without looking I think it was a few thousand to fit it and I suspect a 6kw system would need a further upgrade in battery and solar.

2 kw or 8kw they all use about the same anount....

As the glow pin is the heaviest draw at start up... About 8/10 amps....
Then after the initialiseation run... Dropping back to a couple of Amps or so.

 

[Fisherman]

Its not cheaper than Autogas though Bill which most of us use but as said its only limited to how much diesel you have in your tank which of course is just not an issue. Yes I think when I looked it 6kw was probably what was recommended. However without looking I think it was a few thousand to fit it and I suspect a 6kw system would need a further upgrade in battery and solar.

I don’t reckon there will be much difference in price, but the way things are heading in the U.K. lpg looks set to get even harder to get. I don’t reckon I would replace your setup unless you had to Barry.

 

[barryd]

I don’t reckon there will be much difference in price, but the way things are heading in the U.K. lpg looks set to get even harder to get. I don’t reckon I would replace your setup unless you had to Barry.

Well to be accurate. LPG is about 90p-1.10p a litre and Diesel I think (not sure) around £1.45 a litre

I agree though. It would be daft changing a working system especially as we tend to be on hookup in the colder months.

 

[Fisherman]

Well to be accurate. LPG is about 90p-1.10p a litre and Diesel I think (not sure) around £1.45 a litre

I agree though. It would be daft changing a working system especially as we tend to be on hookup in the colder months.

I can only estimate Barry but I think in winter we use about a litre of diesel.
But we are out all day and the heating is only on early morning and at night.
I go to Costco for diesel at £1.31, but I realise that’s a lower price than normal.
But when burning calor a 6kg cylinder only lasted about 4 days. So that’s about 3litres a day making diesel much cheaper Barry.

 

[mark61]

Diesel has more kWh per litre.

But less kWh per KG

 

[barryd]

I can only estimate Barry but I think in winter we use about a litre of diesel.
But we are out all day and the heating is only on early morning and at night.
I go to Costco for diesel at £1.31, but I realise that’s a lower price than normal.
But when burning calor a 6kg cylinder only lasted about 4 days. So that’s about 3litres a day making diesel much cheaper Barry.

Thats the bit I wanted to know but with a scientific explanation. Two identical vans, side by side both with their heating set at 22c. One diesel heating, one Gas over say 8 hours. How many litres does each use? I would have expected LPG to burn better but apparently its not about that. I Googled it and it says " Diesel fuel is more energy-dense than propane. One litre of diesel contains about 10 kWh of energy, while one litre of LPG contains about 7 kWh. This means a diesel heater can generate more heat from a smaller volume of fuel.

 

[Fisherman]

Thats the bit I wanted to know but with a scientific explanation. Two identical vans, side by side both with their heating set at 22c. One diesel heating, one Gas over say 8 hours. How many litres does each use? I would have expected LPG to burn better but apparently its not about that. I Googled it and it says " Diesel fuel is more energy-dense than propane. One litre of diesel contains about 10 kWh of energy, while one litre of LPG contains about 7 kWh. This means a diesel heater can generate more heat from a smaller volume of fuel.

I would say, Diesel is cheaper than LPG, safer, saves weight, is more readily available, saves space if using cylinders, and requires virtually no maintenance.
But for all that Barry I don't reckon I would change from gas to diesel. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Nabsim]

Barry I work on 0.1 litres diesel per hour for my 5Kw heater. It's the same volume dosing pump on my eberspacher as it is on my CDH so I think it's fair to assume the 0.1lph is a good figure for a 5Kh heater. You don't want a 2Kw in a van your size

 

[r4dent]

I would say, Diesel is cheaper than LPG,

Sorry @Fisherman I disagree, by my calculations they as near as dammit the same price for the same amount of energy.

One litre of diesel contains about 10 kWh of energy, while one litre of LPG contains about 7 kWh.

1 litre of diesel gives 10 kwh for £1.40 = £1.40 / 10 kwh = 14p per kwh
1 litre of LPG gives 7 kwh for a £1.00 = £1.00 / 7 kwh = 14p per kwh

 

[Fisherman]

Ee

Sorry @Fisherman I disagree, by my calculations they as near as dammit the same price for the same amount of energy.



1 litre of diesel gives 10 kwh for £1.40 = £1.40 / 10 kwh = 14p per kwh
1 litre of LPG gives 7 kwh for a £1.00 = £1.00 / 7 kwh = 14p per kwh

you may be right, I don’t know.
But remember I was using Calor gas.
My costs have decreased substantially with diesel.

 

[Fazerloz]

Ee

you may be right, I don’t know.
But remember I was using Calor gas.
My costs have decreased substantially with diesel.

Have you had any problems at all with your diesel Truma combi Bill