Dartmoor national park wild camping ban...

mistericeman said:
Mainly aimed at folks in tents BUT don't imagine a vary warm welcome for motorhomers/campervans at moment either,.

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

Dartmoor bans wild camping after reports of human poo, litter & fires

It comes as the park has seen a dramatic increase in "fly-camping" at Bellever
www.plymouthherald.co.uk www.plymouthherald.co.uk
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The wildcamping ban is a tent thing restricted to certain areas of Dartmoor not the whole. The rules on wildcamping on Dartmoor are that you must be a minimum of 200 yards from a road and out of sight of any habitable dwelling. No BBQs or fires permitted only gas stove cooking.

As noted above motorhome overnight stopping is prohibited in the whole of the Dartmoor area. There are one or two pub car parks that you can stop on with the usual pub stop conditions but these are not central.

You may be OK in a smaller van conversion but if in a coach built no way hosey!

The press have commented that it is a very sad state of affairs that the authorities are focussing their spending on control and bans and not the provisions required for a very higher number of tourists, such as additional toilets, temporary parking, mobile cafes, temporary low cost campsites at say £5 per night, permit overnight stopping in park and ride car parks, etc. Typical of the U.K. but there we are.
 
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Moped, you are right in pointing out that all we ever seem to read is a reaction by the councils or governing bodies to problems like this, we hardly ever read about a pro-active plan to tackle the need for more people to access the countryside during this crisis and whilst the population continues to grow.
We need good planning and provision not more bans.
I am fighting an increase in despondency at the moment. Is that also reactive? I am trying to be pro-active by joining the aires lobby group.
 
Moonraker 2 said:
Moped, you are right in pointing out that all we ever seem to read is a reaction by the councils or governing bodies to problems like this, we hardly ever read about a pro-active plan to tackle the need for more people to access the countryside during this crisis and whilst the population continues to grow.
We need good planning and provision not more bans.
I am fighting an increase in despondency at the moment. Is that also reactive? I am trying to be pro-active by joining the aires lobby group.
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I have just been in a long and touchy discussion on the NC500 THE LAND WEEPS Facebook page about this very subject. Many people are burying their heads in the sand and just complain about motorhomers rather than trying to address the problem. I took the stance that the aires system in EU works so why reinvent the wheel. The comments I received were unbelievable. They don't want aires, or campers in existing car parks, or wildcampers or anything, yet they continue to complain about us. As far as Scotland is concerned, there was an undercurrent of Nationalism creeping in and I know the same is happening with Wales. When I pointed out the numbers of motorhomes with Saltires on the M3 near to my home, the subject changed.
The bottom line is they want us to be forced to use campsites regardless of the prices or the fact many sites will not allow single nights. If I was forced into using campsites, I would probably sell the van. I loath campsites, never mind the rip off prices. I saw on the news the Welsh police were fining campers for overnighting in laybys. How? It's the public highway and lorry drivers do it all the time. I still haven't seen an explanation how that can happen.
 
sydnsue said:
I have just been in a long and touchy discussion on the NC500 THE LAND WEEPS Facebook page about this very subject. Many people are burying their heads in the sand and just complain about motorhomers rather than trying to address the problem. I took the stance that the aires system in EU works so why reinvent the wheel. The comments I received were unbelievable. They don't want aires, or campers in existing car parks, or wildcampers or anything, yet they continue to complain about us. As far as Scotland is concerned, there was an undercurrent of Nationalism creeping in and I know the same is happening with Wales. When I pointed out the numbers of motorhomes with Saltires on the M3 near to my home, the subject changed.
The bottom line is they want us to be forced to use campsites regardless of the prices or the fact many sites will not allow single nights. If I was forced into using campsites, I would probably sell the van. I loath campsites, never mind the rip off prices. I saw on the news the Welsh police were fining campers for overnighting in laybys. How? It's the public highway and lorry drivers do it all the time. I still haven't seen an explanation how that can happen.
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Until someone challenges the fine for resting in a Layby it will continue to be a problem in Wales.It needs a test case but who would be prepared to possibly lose (cant see how)a court case and it may costa load in court fees etc.So people just going to suck up and pay.
 
In order to try to keep positive;
there are a number of places that allow overnight in their car parks. Join the Aires campaign group on Facebook and help the campaign for stopping places.
A certain c& c club has affiliated sites, small places with sometimes as few as 5 Van's and the price can be 10 -15 pounds. I had a fab 2 nights in the new forest just after lockdown lift, for £10 a night. Water and toilet drop.
My suggestion is to use all 3 options.
Happy travelling.
 
Moonraker 2 said:
In order to try to keep positive;
there are a number of places that allow overnight in their car parks. Join the Aires campaign group on Facebook and help the campaign for stopping places.
A certain c& c club has affiliated sites, small places with sometimes as few as 5 Van's and the price can be 10 -15 pounds. I had a fab 2 nights in the new forest just after lockdown lift, for £10 a night. Water and toilet drop.
My suggestion is to use all 3 options.
Happy travelling.
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I believe the Aires campaign on Facebook is harming our use of quiet spots in the countryside by stirring up the wrong organisations. They are targeting everyone rather than council's in control of urban parking.
 
antiquesam said:
I believe the Aires campaign on Facebook is harming our use of quiet spots in the countryside by stirring up the wrong organisations. They are targeting everyone rather than council's in control of urban parking.
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There are many blinkered people. Aires work in Europe. We all know that but residents in the UK just won't listen. Many are calling for extra taxes on us, congestion charges in tourist areas, total bans on single track roads but still allow lorries, clamping of vehicles on all wild camps. The list of ideas goes on.
 
sydnsue said:
There are many blinkered people. Aires work in Europe. We all know that but residents in the UK just won't listen. Many are calling for extra taxes on us, congestion charges in tourist areas, total bans on single track roads but still allow lorries, clamping of vehicles on all wild camps. The list of ideas goes on.
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I want to be able to stay in a town sometimes so that I can go for a meal and a drink. I don't want someone winding up the NT and the Forestry Commission because I use their parking areas anyway.
 
antiquesam said:
I want to be able to stay in a town sometimes so that I can go for a meal and a drink. I don't want someone winding up the NT and the Forestry Commission because I use their parking areas anyway.
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There is a blanket ban on NT car parks. Forestry in Scotland have now trialled Stay Thr Night for free. If it works, they will charge £5 from next year. Maybe FC will do the same.
 
sydnsue said:
There is a blanket ban on NT car parks. Forestry in Scotland have now trialled Stay Thr Night for free. If it works, they will charge £5 from next year. Maybe FC will do the same.
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Don't believe it. I'm not talking about the historic house car parks. You don't think they patrol all they own do you.
 
antiquesam said:
Don't believe it. I'm not talking about the historic house car parks. You don't think they patrol all they own do you.
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FWIW, NT Carnewas (Bedruthan Steps, just north of Newquay airport) is way out in the sticks yet every night we've set up for astronomy, an NT warden has driven up an to an hour before midnight to say that we were breaking the car park "no overnight parking" rule. They know that the astronomy group we belong to hold public star parties there a few times a year. We typically have out an EQ5 mount with a 150mm f/5 newtonian telescope, sometimes with a piggy-backed 80mm guide scope. The wardens have seen this and been content that we only intended to stay until the early hours of the morning before packing up and going home and let us stay. However, I suspect that anyone intending to wild-camp there would get short shrift!
 
GeoffL said:
FWIW, NT Carnewas (Bedruthan Steps, just north of Newquay airport) is way out in the sticks yet every night we've set up for astronomy, an NT warden has driven up an to an hour before midnight to say that we were breaking the car park "no overnight parking" rule. They know that the astronomy group we belong to hold public star parties there a few times a year. We typically have out an EQ5 mount with a 150mm f/5 newtonian telescope, sometimes with a piggy-backed 80mm guide scope. The wardens have seen this and been content that we only intended to stay until the early hours of the morning before packing up and going home and let us stay. However, I suspect that anyone intending to wild-camp there would get short shrift!
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How can being there at 11pm be breaking an overnight parking rule,you could have packed up anytime up to midnight and still not broke the rule as you wouldnt have been there "overnight"
 
antiquesam said:
Don't believe it. I'm not talking about the historic house car parks. You don't think they patrol all they own do you.
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I have seen wardens checking car parks late at night. I am an NT member and I wrote to them about this. They stated that it is an insurance issue. The only NT car parks that are sometimes ok is the landscape car parks.
 
mickymost said:
How can being there at 11pm be breaking an overnight parking rule,you could have packed up anytime up to midnight and still not broke the rule as you wouldnt have been there "overnight"
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I suspect that they work on the assumption that anyone in a motorhome who is there at 11:00 pm probably intends to stay overnight and they're just advising people that isn't permitted. As I wrote, once they saw the astronomy gear we had out they were prepared to accept that we intended staying a few hours to do some stargazing and then would leave. It wouldn't surprise me if they returned early the next morning just to check...
 
sydnsue said:
I have seen wardens checking car parks late at night. I am an NT member and I wrote to them about this. They stated that it is an insurance issue. The only NT car parks that are sometimes ok is the landscape car parks.
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I think that is what I said. The small plots of land they own with a car park are great and many of them are on the poi.
 
GeoffL said:
FWIW, NT Carnewas (Bedruthan Steps, just north of Newquay airport) is way out in the sticks yet every night we've set up for astronomy, an NT warden has driven up an to an hour before midnight to say that we were breaking the car park "no overnight parking" rule. They know that the astronomy group we belong to hold public star parties there a few times a year. We typically have out an EQ5 mount with a 150mm f/5 newtonian telescope, sometimes with a piggy-backed 80mm guide scope. The wardens have seen this and been content that we only intended to stay until the early hours of the morning before packing up and going home and let us stay. However, I suspect that anyone intending to wild-camp there would get short shrift!
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You don't think it could be it's proximity to the airport, or is it because it's in Cornwall and they don't like visitors. It could just be that a bunch of people chatting can seem very noisy at night, even at quite a distance.
 
what can a nt warden actually do in a carpark at 11pm. ?

as i understand it traveller encampments, doing nothing else illegal, off the highway are out of the remit of the police, private land owner has to go to court to get eviction order then employ baliffs to verbally persuade the campers to move on. as landowners we were advised that using force to move hippies on would result in the police arresting us on our own land.. using a jcb to shift a caravan would at least result in a charge of criminal damage, even spreading slurry and manure upwind would result in the travelers getting the council environmental health bods out. i would assume same laws apply to solo motorhomes. the law, and non legal signs only work if your afraid of the largely non existant consequences.
 
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